![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Adam on January 14, 2000, at 21:57:46
I may well have contracted the Mother of All Influenza Viruses (except that 1918 flu that killed like 50 million people). I wonder if I've got this Sydney flu that everyone keeps talking about. It's painful just to sit upright and type. I got so bored earlier today (one can only sleep so much) I tried to play my guitar and found I couldn't: It hurt too much to press down the strings. I have not been kicked on my arse by a bug like this in waking memory. I can't keep anything down, I get these waves of chills that leave me simultaneously shivering and soaking my sheets with sweat. I can feel evey hair follicle on my body. I'd really like to get away to someplace equatorial, but I doubt I'd survive the plane ride.
I know, whine, whine, whine. Anyway, there is a point to this (beyond egregiously blatant attempts at illiciting sympathy for my pathetic state)...As a happy MAOI dependant, this puts some rather strict limits on what I can take for relief from the symptoms. As far as I can tell, I'm limited to lozenges (Reee-co-lahh!), chicken soup, and Vitamin I (term of affection for my beloved Advil). And, of course, sleep. I've wondered seriously if the general lack of sleep I've been dealing with for the last couple of months has left me susceptible to infections like this one. Despite my depression, in the past I've not been one to get sick very often.
Is there ANYTHING else one can take for this? Even if the flu passes by the time I get the answer, this might be of help to others who may, in this apparently nasty flu season, be in the same boat as me in the near future.
Thanks (crawling back to bed now)
Posted by Adam on January 14, 2000, at 22:12:33
In reply to Sick as a DOG..., posted by Adam on January 14, 2000, at 21:57:46
OK, so I can't spell...I meant "elicitng sympathy" not "illiciting sympathy".
Can one get illicit sympathy? Can one elicit sympathy illicitly?
The first person who says "Freudian slip" gets 50 lashes with a wet linguini. I'm talking al dente here, so don't mess around.
Pardon me, I must drop dead now. Good night.
> I may well have contracted the Mother of All Influenza Viruses (except that 1918 flu that killed like 50 million people). I wonder if I've got this Sydney flu that everyone keeps talking about. It's painful just to sit upright and type. I got so bored earlier today (one can only sleep so much) I tried to play my guitar and found I couldn't: It hurt too much to press down the strings. I have not been kicked on my arse by a bug like this in waking memory. I can't keep anything down, I get these waves of chills that leave me simultaneously shivering and soaking my sheets with sweat. I can feel evey hair follicle on my body. I'd really like to get away to someplace equatorial, but I doubt I'd survive the plane ride.
>
> I know, whine, whine, whine. Anyway, there is a point to this (beyond egregiously blatant attempts at illiciting sympathy for my pathetic state)...As a happy MAOI dependant, this puts some rather strict limits on what I can take for relief from the symptoms. As far as I can tell, I'm limited to lozenges (Reee-co-lahh!), chicken soup, and Vitamin I (term of affection for my beloved Advil). And, of course, sleep. I've wondered seriously if the general lack of sleep I've been dealing with for the last couple of months has left me susceptible to infections like this one. Despite my depression, in the past I've not been one to get sick very often.
>
> Is there ANYTHING else one can take for this? Even if the flu passes by the time I get the answer, this might be of help to others who may, in this apparently nasty flu season, be in the same boat as me in the near future.
>
> Thanks (crawling back to bed now)
Posted by Noa on January 14, 2000, at 22:22:31
In reply to Sick as a DOG..., posted by Adam on January 14, 2000, at 21:57:46
From what I hear in the news, your having caught this flu virus probably has little to do with your sleep problems. A LOT of people are getting the flu.
When I was a kid, in 1968, I missed a month of school because of what was dubbed "Hong Kong Flu". And, I have had the flu a few times in my adult life and, YES it feels like total HELL. Everything hurts and feels awful. And it wears you out. I remember that after the acute symptoms went away, my energy did not return for a long while.
Once the flu shot became availble, I started getting it every year because I NEVER want to get the flu again.
Remember to drink enough fluid, so you don't get dehydrated. If it is hard to drink, try ice cubes or flavored popsicles--at least you get a bit of water into your body.
Take good care of yourself.
Posted by Noa on January 14, 2000, at 22:26:05
In reply to Re: Sick as a DOG..., posted by Adam on January 14, 2000, at 22:12:33
There is this new thing called Relenza that is supposed to relieve symptoms of the flu by actually going after the virus, but I heard its claims are exaggerated. I don't know if they are MAO compatible, tho.
Take Care.
Posted by Sam on January 14, 2000, at 22:40:41
In reply to Re: Sick as a DOG..., posted by Noa on January 14, 2000, at 22:26:05
You might try 1 gram of vitamin C a day. Garlic can give viruses a hard time. Echinacea would probably help. None of these should interact with medications, I think. Get plenty of sleep.
Posted by Elizabeth on January 15, 2000, at 1:58:45
In reply to Sick as a DOG..., posted by Adam on January 14, 2000, at 21:57:46
> It's painful just to sit upright and type.
You said you've tried Vitamin I (my friends seem to use this expression too). What about APAP? Or a combination? Prescription pain killers such as codeine can help too with the aches (and are also cough suppressants).
Stick to a bland diet...broth and ginger ale. Phenergan can help you keep stuff down, I don't know if this is ordinarily used for the flu.
If you have a cough, there is a cough suppressant -- benzonatate, trade name Tessalon) that you can use with MAOIs. If it's productive, you might want to use guaifenisen (expectorant) instead. (I just got over a cold but have a persistent cough; my doctor prescribed Tessalon and Azmacort.)
A weird thing is that even when my cold (one of those Boston Mega-colds) was at its worst, I didn't feel "wiped" by it. I had a lot of energy and acted on it. I suspect that going out in the cold wasn't the best way to deal with my infection!
I got the flu shot yesterday. 2 weeks until it kicks in. Wish me luck, everyone.
Posted by Phil on January 15, 2000, at 8:17:14
In reply to Sick as a DOG..., posted by Adam on January 14, 2000, at 21:57:46
I get a flu shot every year. I haven't gotten the flu but I lost my job...need a vaccine for that one!
I got the measles, of all things, about ten years ago. Missed 2 weeks of work, had 104.5 temp, and lost 15 pounds. My recommendation, if you can keep it down, is Gatorade. I almost lived on it.
Phil
Posted by Mrs. G on January 15, 2000, at 10:34:15
In reply to Re: Sick as a DOG..., posted by Adam on January 14, 2000, at 22:12:33
Adam,
I also am sending lots of sympathy your way. Sure hope you are feeling improvement by now. Fresh oranges would be a good thing. And lemonade made from fresh lemons, if some kind soul would make it for you. Can't beat fresh citrus for helping you feel a little better. Thanking of you...
Posted by Adam on January 15, 2000, at 14:59:02
In reply to MAOI + flu = ?, posted by Elizabeth on January 15, 2000, at 1:58:45
Thank you, everyone,
Much echinacia and fluids being consumed (the S.O. brought the echinacia over...damned if I know what it does, but what the heck.)
Want to hear something really f***ing funny? I actually got a flu shot in October. Free from my employer. You get what you pay for, I guess.
Oh, good heavens, no mas, no mas. This sucks. This truly does. Nobody told me a flu could do this.
I hope no one will begrudge me for singling out Elizabeth...thanks again for your encycopedic pharmacoligic knowledge. If I can drag my sorry carcas to my PCP, I will try your suggestions.
Good night. Stay healthy.
Adam
> > It's painful just to sit upright and type.
>
> You said you've tried Vitamin I (my friends seem to use this expression too). What about APAP? Or a combination? Prescription pain killers such as codeine can help too with the aches (and are also cough suppressants).
>
> Stick to a bland diet...broth and ginger ale. Phenergan can help you keep stuff down, I don't know if this is ordinarily used for the flu.
>
> If you have a cough, there is a cough suppressant -- benzonatate, trade name Tessalon) that you can use with MAOIs. If it's productive, you might want to use guaifenisen (expectorant) instead. (I just got over a cold but have a persistent cough; my doctor prescribed Tessalon and Azmacort.)
>
> A weird thing is that even when my cold (one of those Boston Mega-colds) was at its worst, I didn't feel "wiped" by it. I had a lot of energy and acted on it. I suspect that going out in the cold wasn't the best way to deal with my infection!
>
> I got the flu shot yesterday. 2 weeks until it kicks in. Wish me luck, everyone.
Posted by Judy on January 16, 2000, at 10:24:10
In reply to Re: uuhhnnnghhh..., posted by Adam on January 15, 2000, at 14:59:02
> Want to hear something really f***ing funny? I actually got a flu shot in October. Free from my employer. You get what you pay for, I guess.
Adam
I guess I should identify myself as 'Selegilene Judy' since there are two Judy's here now.Not funny - it's happening to a lot of people - the flu shot you got in October didn't immunize you against the flu bug that's knocking everyone on their butts right now - they didn't see this one coming, I guess.
I know how you feel...like you're never going to have energy again. But you will.
My two cents on otc meds. Eliz's suggestion of Phernagen is a good one, but if you can't drag yourself to your PCP for a script, plain old Robitussen (not the DM kind - no dextromethorphan with MAOI's)can be used with a MAOI - active incredient is Guaifenesin). They make cough drops too. Having been on MAOI's so many times, I keep an industrial size bottle of it on hand at all times. Seems to work well with Selegiline - I found I slept better when I took it for a cold a week or so ago. Can't remember if you said you were taking Ibuprofen, but that seemed to work well for me for the aches and pains.
Sorry for the disjointed thoughts. I'm supposed to be weaning off Selegiline and haven't had the courage to do it yet even though I seem to have lost most of the benefits it was providing. I had just refilled my perscription when I got the dictum to stop taking it so I have some 'stall time'. Just can't bear another trial and error yet.
Feel better. Judy
Posted by Adam on January 16, 2000, at 11:11:09
In reply to Re: uuhhnnnghhh..., posted by Adam on January 15, 2000, at 14:59:02
It gets better. Last night I decided I was just too disgusting for human contact, hauled my perspiration-soaked sheets off the bed and took what I hoped would be a therapeutic shower. At times when I've had a cold in the past a hot shower gave some nice temporary relief. So I cranked the temp. way over to the big red "H"; it
hurt, but in a good way. The next thing I know, my heart starts pounding really hard, my peripheral vision becomes a black tunnel and WHAM, I've fallen and konked myself good and hard on the head. I think I smacked into the faucet. I don't know how long I was lying there, but I started to come to, put my hand on my forehead and BLOOD! AAGGH!Orthostatic hypotension, perhaps? Somehow the hot water did me in. My b.p. has been a bit below normal since I started selegiline, and I'm sure the loss of fluids to sweat, mucous, and, uh, reverse paristalsis have contributed to the problem. Lucky me, my girlfriend came over soon after the spill and, bless her, tried to convince me to go to the hospital (both the roomates were out, probably avoiding me like the, y'know, plague). I just can't see sitting for two hours in an emergency room to be told I have a minor concussion and a cut, especially feeling as wretched as I do. I've got a nice goose-egg, the cut is small, behind the hairline, and stopped bleeding soon after I got out from under the hot water.
So I've added to my pain, scared the bejeezus out of my S.O. (who has read me the riot act, e.g. "you could have drowned, you could have bled to death! What the hell were you doing?" etc.) Didn't know taking a shower at home alone could be so frought with peril, but live and learn, as they say. Perhaps MAOI + flu + scalding hot water = fainting spell and a good crack on the melon.
This is all just way too funny. Hah hah hah. Hah.
Posted by Adam on January 16, 2000, at 11:23:41
In reply to Re: uuhhnnnghhh..., posted by Judy on January 16, 2000, at 10:24:10
You slipped in Judy,
When I have the energy, perhaps we could discuss your experiences w/selegiline in another thread.
I'm dreadfully sorry to hear that it, I'm guessing, pooped out on you. Frankly, it also scares me. But I want to know more. I just can't deal right now.Thanks for the medicine advice, too. I will send for some of that Robitussen (thank the great whatever I have someone willing to do this for me right now). My sides actually hurt from coughing. I can't seem to bring up whatever's down there, though, so what's the point?
Be well, Judy. Like I said, I'm very sorry to hear about your med. trouble. It makes me realize I have very little to complain about (though it hasn't stopped me yet.)
Take care,
Adam
> > Want to hear something really f***ing funny? I actually got a flu shot in October. Free from my employer. You get what you pay for, I guess.
>
> Adam
> I guess I should identify myself as 'Selegilene Judy' since there are two Judy's here now.
>
> Not funny - it's happening to a lot of people - the flu shot you got in October didn't immunize
you against the flu bug that's knocking everyone on their butts right now - they didn't see this one coming, I guess.
>
> I know how you feel...like you're never going to have energy again. But you will.
>
> My two cents on otc meds. Eliz's suggestion of Phernagen is a good one, but if you can't drag yourself to your PCP for a script, plain old Robitussen (not the DM kind - no dextromethorphan with MAOI's)can be used with a MAOI - active incredient is Guaifenesin). They make cough drops too. Having been on MAOI's so many times, I keep an industrial size bottle of it on hand at all times. Seems to work well with Selegiline - I found I slept better when I took it for a cold a week or so ago. Can't remember if you said you were taking Ibuprofen, but that seemed to work well for me for the aches and pains.
>
> Sorry for the disjointed thoughts. I'm supposed to be weaning off Selegiline and haven't had the courage to do it yet even though I seem to have lost most of the benefits it was providing. I had just refilled my perscription when I got the dictum to stop taking it so I have some 'stall time'. Just can't bear another trial and error yet.
>
> Feel better. Judy
Posted by sandi on January 16, 2000, at 16:42:32
In reply to OK, so don't do this..., posted by Adam on January 16, 2000, at 11:11:09
>
> It gets better. Last night I decided I was just too disgusting for human contact, hauled my perspiration-soaked sheets off the bed and took what I hoped would be a therapeutic shower. At times when I've had a cold in the past a hot shower gave some nice temporary relief. So I cranked the temp. way over to the big red "H"; it
> hurt, but in a good way. The next thing I know, my heart starts pounding really hard, my peripheral vision becomes a black tunnel and WHAM, I've fallen and konked myself good and hard on the head. I think I smacked into the faucet. I don't know how long I was lying there, but I started to come to, put my hand on my forehead and BLOOD! AAGGH!
>
> Orthostatic hypotension, perhaps? Somehow the hot water did me in. My b.p. has been a bit below normal since I started selegiline, and I'm sure the loss of fluids to sweat, mucous, and, uh, reverse paristalsis have contributed to the problem. Lucky me, my girlfriend came over soon after the spill and, bless her, tried to convince me to go to the hospital (both the roomates were out, probably avoiding me like the, y'know, plague). I just can't see sitting for two hours in an emergency room to be told I have a minor concussion and a cut, especially feeling as wretched as I do. I've got a nice goose-egg, the cut is small, behind the hairline, and stopped bleeding soon after I got out from under the hot water.
>
> So I've added to my pain, scared the bejeezus out of my S.O. (who has read me the riot act, e.g. "you could have drowned, you could have bled to death! What the hell were you doing?" etc.) Didn't know taking a shower at home alone could be so frought with peril, but live and learn, as they say. Perhaps MAOI + flu + scalding hot water = fainting spell and a good crack on the melon.
>
> This is all just way too funny. Hah hah hah. Hah.
Adam, I DO suggest you drag your behind into the ER. While your assessment is probably correct, you can't be too sure. What if you injured your C-spine or are working on a nice subdural hematoma (also known as a hema-tomato?) At the very least, you probably could use some IV fluids. They might perk you right up!!!!! Take care and hope you feel better soon--------sandi
Posted by Elizabeth on January 16, 2000, at 20:44:16
In reply to Re: Judy, posted by Adam on January 16, 2000, at 11:23:41
> Thanks for the medicine advice, too. I will send for some of that Robitussen (thank the great whatever I have someone willing to do this for me right now). My sides actually hurt from coughing. I can't seem to bring up whatever's down there, though, so what's the point?
Hi dude.
Guaifenisen (the active ingredient in plain Robitussin) is an expectorant. It should help loosen those secretions. :)
This benzonatate (trade name Tessalon) stuff I've been taking (Rx only, alas) has been very effective as a cough suppressant, and is fine with MAOIs (obviously!). My cold has mostly cleared up but my cough has persisted, which is why I went and got a script for this stuff. My doctor also gave me a script for a steroid inhaler, but the only pharmacy in town that takes my insurance was closed today! (I just hope they're open tomorrow, because I ran out of Marplan (didn't take it today) and of course I can't get it anywhere else because they'd have to special-order it.)
Anyway, I hope this helps. Take care and for god's sake be careful in that shower! (I've fainted in the shower too BTW. And a guy from MIT drowned in the shower a couple years ago because he fell asleep there.)
Posted by Judy on January 17, 2000, at 19:30:27
In reply to Re: Judy, posted by Elizabeth on January 16, 2000, at 20:44:16
>I ran out of Marplan (didn't take it today) and of course I can't get it anywhere else because they'd have to special-order it.)
Elizabeth - You should have mentioned it earlier, I could have met you at the Braintree "T" (about halfway between us) this morning with the full bottle of Marplan that I couldn't take! (How's that working for you BTW? No myoclonus?)
And Adam, now that everyone has told you not to shower when you're sick and alone, a couple more reminders: Don't run with scissors; watch out with that stick - you'll put your eye out; and don't eat the yellow snow!
Judy
Posted by Noa on January 17, 2000, at 19:45:32
In reply to Elizabeth/Adam, posted by Judy on January 17, 2000, at 19:30:27
So many Bostonians.
Posted by Elizabeth on January 17, 2000, at 23:17:33
In reply to Re: Elizabeth/Adam, posted by Noa on January 17, 2000, at 19:45:32
> So many Bostonians.
...so few bullets.
Posted by Noa on January 18, 2000, at 0:14:14
In reply to Re: Elizabeth/Adam, posted by Elizabeth on January 17, 2000, at 23:17:33
> > So many Bostonians.
>
> ...so few parking spaces!
Posted by Morc on January 18, 2000, at 13:19:23
In reply to Re: Elizabeth/Adam, posted by Elizabeth on January 17, 2000, at 23:17:33
> > So many Bostonians.
>
> ...so few bullets.You guys crack me up.
Posted by Adam on January 18, 2000, at 18:03:44
In reply to Re: Elizabeth/Adam, posted by Noa on January 18, 2000, at 0:14:14
> > > So many Bostonians.
> >
> > ...so few parking spaces!So many middle fingers.
Seriously, though, I'm feeling a bit better. When I'm a bit more motivated (still have the flu-muddled attention span of a gnat at this point), I'm going to compile the list of suggestions above and repost it as a "MAOI-User's Guide to the Flu."
P.S. Why does one faint in the shower, exactly? Here's a guess: The sudden temperature change (I'm assuming you need pretty hot water to get this) creates a rapid dilation of blood vessels near and in the dermis (to help regulate body temperature), and this, in turn, leads to a rapid drop in blood pressure. If combined with other factors (like drug side effects or illness, or both), the overall effect can be large enough to lead to a fainting spell. Is this anywhere near accurate?
Posted by torchgrl on January 24, 2000, at 23:48:14
In reply to Re: Elizabeth/Adam, posted by Adam on January 18, 2000, at 18:03:44
> P.S. Why does one faint in the shower, exactly? Here's a guess: The sudden temperature change (I'm assuming you need pretty hot water to get this) creates a rapid dilation of blood vessels near and in the dermis (to help regulate body temperature), and this, in turn, leads to a rapid drop in blood pressure. If combined with other factors (like drug side effects or illness, or both), the overall effect can be large enough to lead to a fainting spell. Is this anywhere near accurate?
I don't know, but I have a similar reaction to too warm showers even without the MAOI &/or flu (although I have yet to actually fall over, usually because I sit down first), and have really low blood pressure (98/60 or so), so you may be onto something...
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on January 26, 2000, at 9:29:12
In reply to Re: Elizabeth/Adam, posted by Adam on January 18, 2000, at 18:03:44
> When I'm a bit more motivated (still have the flu-muddled attention span of a gnat at this point), I'm going to compile the list of suggestions above and repost it as a "MAOI-User's Guide to the Flu."
Please hurry.
- Scott
Posted by DC on January 28, 2000, at 1:55:53
In reply to MAOI + flu = ?, posted by Elizabeth on January 15, 2000, at 1:58:45
I'm surprised you guys haven't heard of RELENZA. It's an inhaled medication that actually attacks the flu virus. It's a new thing. I tried a few weeks ago. My flu was gone witin 24 hours. Great stuff.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.