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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by judy on January 19, 2000, at 12:00:16
I got all worked up with the whole pm-Scott debate about who's manic or not. Anyway I'm seeing this really great psychologist who was recommended by Dr. Breggin, that should get you all going, and he doesn't believe in psychiatric labels. I LOVE that, they change all the time anyway, aren't they coming out with ANOTHER DSM, what are we up to 4?, which will probably make millions and add more categories so that everyone can have their own little label and the accompanying billions of dollars in pharmaceutical drugs to cure them. I am so ANGRY about all the unnecessary drugs I've ingested and side effects and hospitals because of those side effects, does anyone out there feel like I do? I read about all the problems people have withdrawing from SSRI's and other drugs well that pales to what I've been going through getting off this anti- depressant, psychotic, anxiety, manic crap. There I feel better.
Posted by Adam on January 19, 2000, at 17:59:45
In reply to DSM labels, posted by judy on January 19, 2000, at 12:00:16
I am upset at times that I took the wrong drugs, instead of the one that would help me. I did waste a lot of time cycling through same/similar classes to no avail while the answer (an MAOI, available since the 1950s) wasn't even discussed until after I was hospitalized. This is not the fault of the drugs, though.I also don't go much for diagnostic catagories as they exist, because I think psychiatric nosology isn't as robust as it needs to be (almost no basis in physioligical features/phenomena, despite an assumption that mental disorders contain a large physiological component, at every level of complexity, from macroscopic brain structure down to molecular sequence), and often isn't of much use to people in finding the right medications. Again, this doesn't make drugs bad, or diagnosis, it just makes it harder for the uninformed patient/doctor to find the right one.
If a drug-free, purely psychological approach works for you, that's great. I'd much rather be drug-free than on an MAOI. Before getting the relief that I did from a drug, I honestly didn't think such a change was possible, so I doubt one could (as Breggin or his proponents might) plausibly suggest my response is "all in my head." I also can't imagine it would be rivaled by any kind of talk therapy. Psychotherapy for depression is pretty much a moot point for me now, though OCD symptoms and some interpersonal issues that stem mostly from childhood traumas, keep me going back to a therapist. The most efficacious approach for me is to use both where they will do the most good. It took about ten years to get to this point. That's way, way too long in my oppinion. Something clearly is wrong that needs to be fixed. I firmly believe that my own initiatives (enrolling in a research study on OCD rather than, say, accepting a diagnosis of psychosis) have largely saved me, and if left at the hands of at least three of the doctors I have had in the past I would surely be dead today.
But don't blame drugs. Blame an inadequate system. Support more research, and leave your options open. Most of all, find a good psychopharmacologist, if drugs are indicated. That's probably the most important thing you can do.
> I got all worked up with the whole pm-Scott debate about who's manic or not. Anyway I'm seeing this really great psychologist who was recommended by Dr. Breggin, that should get you all going, and he doesn't believe in psychiatric labels. I LOVE that, they change all the time anyway, aren't they coming out with ANOTHER DSM, what are we up to 4?, which will probably make millions and add more categories so that everyone can have their own little label and the accompanying billions of dollars in pharmaceutical drugs to cure them. I am so ANGRY about all the unnecessary drugs I've ingested and side effects and hospitals because of those side effects, does anyone out there feel like I do? I read about all the problems people have withdrawing from SSRI's and other drugs well that pales to what I've been going through getting off this anti- depressant, psychotic, anxiety, manic crap. There I feel better.
Posted by Tom on January 20, 2000, at 12:03:13
In reply to DSM labels, posted by judy on January 19, 2000, at 12:00:16
> I got all worked up with the whole pm-Scott debate about who's manic or not. Anyway I'm seeing this really great psychologist who was recommended by Dr. Breggin, that should get you all going, and he doesn't believe in psychiatric labels. I LOVE that, they change all the time anyway, aren't they coming out with ANOTHER DSM, what are we up to 4?, which will probably make millions and add more categories so that everyone can have their own little label and the accompanying billions of dollars in pharmaceutical drugs to cure them. I am so ANGRY about all the unnecessary drugs I've ingested and side effects and hospitals because of those side effects, does anyone out there feel like I do? I read about all the problems people have withdrawing from SSRI's and other drugs well that pales to what I've been going through getting off this anti- depressant, psychotic, anxiety, manic crap. There I feel better.
How were you able to get Dr. Breggin to recommend a therapist for you? I'm really interested in a top notch therapist in the Philly area. I guess I'm in the same boat as you...drugs are not a clear cut answer for me (I repeat...for me). I suspect alot of people feel the same way about medicine but are really afraid to come off them. After being on medicine for so long it's really hard to decipher what really is making you depressed. I do believe in keeping an open mind (I'm a strong liberal), but going round and round on the medicine merry-go-round should tell you maybe medicine is not the answer. Incidentally, the whole label thing is a pain in the butt. I'm still fighting my own self induced stigma about my own labels...
Posted by judy on January 21, 2000, at 2:01:00
In reply to Re: DSM labels, posted by Adam on January 19, 2000, at 17:59:45
Dear Adam,
Thank you for such a well written letter. You made some very valid points but obviously you had the strength to seek the proper treatment to "save" your life. A lot of people don't have the option of being part of a research study and are so ill/depressed/etc. that they accept whatever their psychiatrist's prescribe. Maybe the 15 minute check allowed by their HMO with no choice of psychiatrist contributes to some of it. You're right, I do blame the system, the psychiatrists who abuse their power by hospitalizing and applying conservatorship to noncompliant patients. And yes, I've been the victim more than once and that was with highly esteemed psychiatrists with fully compensated 45 minute sessions. Thank you and take care.
Posted by judy on January 21, 2000, at 2:14:39
In reply to Re: DSM labels - question for Judy, posted by Tom on January 20, 2000, at 12:03:13
I e-mailed Dr. Breggin at breggin@tmn.com and must have sounded pretty pathetic because I got an answer within a few days with 2 recommendations of doctors in my area. You may want to visit his site at www.breggin.com for more information; I believe he provides an address to write to for psychiatrists or psychologists in your area. I don't know how far you are from Bethesda, Maryland, but Dr. Breggin has a practice and runs an Institute there. How many meds are you currently on? I am tapering down from 5, it has been extremely difficult but I am fortunate in the support I have. If you post what meds you are on and I've been on them, I can tell you of my experiences. I wish you the best of luck- also you said you were depressed, if you have a history of suicide attempts or hospitalizations, I strongly suggest you say nothing of your decision to your treating psychiatrist; they have the ability to court appoint someone to force you to take meds (without you even being there). Take care.
Posted by Adam on January 21, 2000, at 11:01:54
In reply to Adam, posted by judy on January 21, 2000, at 2:01:00
>
A lot of people don't have the option of being part of a research study and are so ill/depressed/etc. that they accept whatever their psychiatrist's prescribe.It's tough, no question, and I appreciate the fact that on at least one occasion, I had very good fortune. But the thing is, nobody told me the research studies I enrolled in were the right ones. I've actually had the opportunity to enroll in quite a large number of studies, and made (at least in the case of the second) judicious decisions about where I was going to spend my time. I was able to do so only because I researched and researched and asked every question, from the dumbest possible to a couple of insightful ones, before I went ahead.
I guess the point of what I'm saying is I've been pretty severly depressed in the past, but recognized that my best bet was to get educated. Also, there are lots of research studies out there, so I think the number of people who really do have that option is bigger than one would think. The key is finding the ones that fit you the best. That is difficult, but not impossible for anyone, and I'm not all that special, so I figure if I can find success going that route lots of people can.
>Maybe the 15 minute check allowed by their HMO with no choice of psychiatrist contributes to some of it. You're right, I do blame the systemI've only had HMOs to work with when it came to my mental health. I'm not very happy with them either. I think 26 visits a year for both psychopharm and psychotherapy (excluding the 15 min. "drug chats" which last about long enough to say hello, fill out a prescription, and schedule the next appointment) is woefully inadequate for most people's needs. As far as I'm concerned, HMOs kill people. That's why I haven't relied upon mine entirely. You can't.
>And yes, I've been the victim more than once and that was with highly esteemed psychiatrists with fully compensated 45 minute sessions. Thank you and take care.
Thank you too, and I hope you find success. You may need some luck, but I think your best path to success is to use your obvious intelligence in your favor: Read everything you can find, get multiple points of view, and take charge when opportunities knock. They will.
Posted by judy on January 21, 2000, at 11:34:45
In reply to Tom, posted by judy on January 21, 2000, at 2:14:39
I just wanted to add if you make the decision to discontinue your medication- a good place to start is Dr. Breggin's book "Your Drug May Be Your Problem". One of the things I discovered was once I was in this "underground" system of psychiatrists and psychologists who are anti-med, I was shocked at how many there are across the country. It was such a pleasure to not have to fight for my right to make a decision about my health, and to actually have people believe me when I said the drug (for example) depakote was making me depressed. I look at the posts on this site and see a vast number complaining of side effects of this or that drug, paxil induced mania, etc. Again, I wish you the best of luck.
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