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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Squiggles on April 7, 2002, at 18:44:24
Hello,
For those who do not remember me (i did try
to post few days ago), I have residual withdrawal
effects from clonazepam. It was a long withdrwal
(1 year plus) culminating in a seizure or stroke
or aneurysm - never clearly recognized by the
doctors; anyway, my doctor gave me free reign
to increase the dosage as i felt necessary; it
was reinstated to the initial 1.0, but with the
withdrawals continuing, i took it up to 1.125 and
still feel some. I am wondering if I should
increase it still more.I welcome answers from people who have actually
been through benzo withdrawal as it it seems
a controversial and mysterious matter for those
who have not.Thank you.
Squiggles
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 7, 2002, at 21:02:48
In reply to Increasing clonazepam dosage, posted by Squiggles on April 7, 2002, at 18:44:24
Sqiggles;
Lou here...
I have been following your plight since you came onto PB. I have followed many other people that have been on Clonazepam for long periods of time and attempted to withdrawal. I also withdrew from Clonazepam and went through a withdrawal that I thought no one could endure. But I did overcome and it has been 5 years since I was accidently addicted to Clonazepam.
Now there are distinct differences among people that withdrawal from this drug. but I have found others that have experianced the same symptoms as you have. One is an 85 year old woman on Clonazepam for 15 years. I am in touch with her relatives weekly and follow her plight. She is in an assisted living center and needs this type of setting. I believe that you have a devoted husband , wheras she is a widow of 4 years which has caused her extreme mourning way beyond normal. Because of this, she can not even go a minuet beyond her time to take her BZD or she will want to "call the police" to get her pill. Her symptoms of withdrawal are like you have described. The point in this case is that she was switched to a longer half-life BZD and the doctors are using the "Ashton" technique to withdrawal her from Clonazepam. Now the good news is that this regimine is showing positive results in as much as she is doing the same on the other BZD as Clonazepam. Now if the Ashton method is correct, then she will eventually be free from all BZDs.
Another case involves a French woman in her 80s with musical hallucinations that were induced by Elivil. Her drs have given her Clonazepam and are keeping her on it. As of a few months ago, she was doing fine and has conceded to take the drug for life,for she sleeps well and can't sleep without it due to the MHs.
My case is an unothadox case, for ,as you probably know , I withdrew without any tapering or other drugs and found a power that gave me the ability to overcome my addiction. But I experianced all that you have described , except the siezures. And I experianced all the darkness that you have described, and if you would like, you can email me and I will tell you how I came into a marvelous light and was set free from the shakles and manicles of addiction.
Lou
Posted by Squiggles on April 7, 2002, at 21:25:44
In reply to Re: Increasing clonazepam dosage » Squiggles, posted by Lou Pilder on April 7, 2002, at 21:02:48
Thank you Lou,
I was not aware you were still here - I have only
posted at Dr. Bob's book site and intervening
stuff prevented me from posting earlier.Well, I'm glad you found a way to help you
through your withdrawal. I appreciate the
cases you cite - very sad but thanks for
bringing them up.Regarding their relation to my case, I am afraid
that my doctor has not pursused withdrawal with
a switch or anything else really, from clonazepam;
I believe that I am on my own with Clonazepam,
though I was assisted by my doctor and his supervisor
on the Xanax withdrawal, which was immensely
easier.So, I am in the situation now where I pull the
strings, and i think my doc. will agree to any
suggestion I make witht the help of the net;
the remaining withdrawals, I fear are a little
bit immune to the raise of the dose; but I am
not sure; perhaps raising it even more will
get rid of them.And that is the information I seek.
Thank you and take care of yourself.
Squiggles
Posted by JohnX2 on April 7, 2002, at 21:29:36
In reply to Increasing clonazepam dosage, posted by Squiggles on April 7, 2002, at 18:44:24
> Hello,
>
> For those who do not remember me (i did try
> to post few days ago), I have residual withdrawal
> effects from clonazepam. It was a long withdrwal
> (1 year plus) culminating in a seizure or stroke
> or aneurysm - never clearly recognized by the
> doctors; anyway, my doctor gave me free reign
> to increase the dosage as i felt necessary; it
> was reinstated to the initial 1.0, but with the
> withdrawals continuing, i took it up to 1.125 and
> still feel some. I am wondering if I should
> increase it still more.
>
> I welcome answers from people who have actually
> been through benzo withdrawal as it it seems
> a controversial and mysterious matter for those
> who have not.
>
> Thank you.
>
> SquigglesSquiggles,
Sorry to hear about such a horrendous experience. Klonopin is an antiseizure medicine, and it was studied for the use in epilepsy but was found to be ineffective due to the potential for rapid tolerance developed to ints anticonvulsant effects. I believe for vanilla anxiety treatment, its anxiolytic effects are less likely to wear off/poop-out.
Anyways, I was a strong klonopin addict, using it to treat myofacial pain. I started at 2 mg and finished at 6 mg. I couldn't find a suitable medicine to replace it, until I stumbled on Topamax. Topamax is also an antiseizure medicine, but it is not habit forming (won't give withdrawl seizures, I don't believe) and it almost immediately relieved most of my pain symptoms. I was able to taper 4 of the 6 mg of Klonopin in about 6 weeks without much pain. Topamax increases the conductance of GabaA neurons, just as Klonopin does (I don't know of another antiseizure medicine that increases chloride conductance through GabaA neurons).
Don't know if this information would be useful...need to talk to a really good neurologist.
Please take care.
John
Posted by Squiggles on April 7, 2002, at 21:40:22
In reply to Re: Increasing clonazepam dosage » Squiggles, posted by JohnX2 on April 7, 2002, at 21:29:36
Topomax:
John, that's sounds very promising;
perhaps I should mention this to my doctor.
Alternatively, maybe these symptoms will
eventually stabilize at a higher dose;
at any rate I will mention Topomax as good
drug to wean from K -I had such frightening
experience with the stroke/seizure (I was very
sick for a month - blood pressure changes,
couldn't walk, memory lapse for the first
10 minutes, head pain, migraines, and
narcolepsy, and severe depression both
physically and emotionally) that I hesitate
to ever really get off unless the doctor
knows what he is doing and wants me to get off
this drug.I appreciate your post.
Squiggles
Posted by JohnX2 on April 7, 2002, at 21:58:44
In reply to Re: Increasing clonazepam dosage, posted by Squiggles on April 7, 2002, at 21:40:22
> Topomax:
>
> John, that's sounds very promising;
> perhaps I should mention this to my doctor.
> Alternatively, maybe these symptoms will
> eventually stabilize at a higher dose;
> at any rate I will mention Topomax as good
> drug to wean from K -
>
> I had such frightening
> experience with the stroke/seizure (I was very
> sick for a month - blood pressure changes,
> couldn't walk, memory lapse for the first
> 10 minutes, head pain, migraines, and
> narcolepsy, and severe depression both
> physically and emotionally) that I hesitate
> to ever really get off unless the doctor
> knows what he is doing and wants me to get off
> this drug.
>
> I appreciate your post.
>
> SquigglesWow those are some pretty amazing negative side effects from K. I have seen another poster who had almost identical issues. Do you think it was caused by withdrawl/tolerance induced seizures? What is the current thinking of your doctor? Of course too much benzo can shut your brain down and put you into a coma (on the flip side).
The topamax may help to prevent seizure activity if that is what is happening, but it does have an infamous side effect of potential cognitive decline. Curiously I take a very strong dose (400 mg), and i have no cognitive decline from Topamax, yet a lot of people complain about this?
Maybe I don't get it because it is rebalancing a problem, who knows.Do EEG/MRI testing show any hints as to possible physiological adaptations?
PS: Are you dx bipolar, I seem to recall you are taking lithium?
Regards,
John
Posted by Spongemomsquarepants on April 7, 2002, at 23:20:42
In reply to Re: Increasing clonazepam dosage » Squiggles, posted by JohnX2 on April 7, 2002, at 21:29:36
Sorry to hear about such a horrendous experience. Klonopin is an antiseizure medicine, and it was studied for the use in epilepsy but was found to be ineffective due to the potential for rapid tolerance developed to ints anticonvulsant effects. I believe for vanilla anxiety treatment, its anxiolytic effects are less likely to wear off/poop-out.
I am also sorry to hear about your horrible experience, however, I have a son with intractable epilepsy, he is now 10, and he has had seizures since he was 7 months old. Klonopin WAS and IS the ONLY drug that has helped him. I am also taking Klonopin 1.5 mg for anxiety and thank goodness have never gotten addicted. I have been on the same dose for 7 years, and it does help me. It certainly is not a drug for everyone, but it certainly has a place in the neuro world.
Viki
Posted by JohnX2 on April 7, 2002, at 23:59:36
In reply to Re: Klonopin epliepsy can work, posted by Spongemomsquarepants on April 7, 2002, at 23:20:42
> Sorry to hear about such a horrendous experience. Klonopin is an antiseizure medicine, and it was studied for the use in epilepsy but was found to be ineffective due to the potential for rapid tolerance developed to ints anticonvulsant effects. I believe for vanilla anxiety treatment, its anxiolytic effects are less likely to wear off/poop-out.
>
>
> I am also sorry to hear about your horrible experience, however, I have a son with intractable epilepsy, he is now 10, and he has had seizures since he was 7 months old. Klonopin WAS and IS the ONLY drug that has helped him. I am also taking Klonopin 1.5 mg for anxiety and thank goodness have never gotten addicted. I have been on the same dose for 7 years, and it does help me. It certainly is not a drug for everyone, but it certainly has a place in the neuro world.
> VikiHi Viki,
Glad to hear a/any success story. Don't mean to be an alarmist on my end...
I don't no much about epilepsy, but I wonder how effective in general Topamax would be for people who responded to Klonopin?
Regards,
John
Posted by Squiggles on April 8, 2002, at 6:57:48
In reply to Re: Increasing clonazepam dosage » Squiggles, posted by JohnX2 on April 7, 2002, at 21:58:44
John,
I think it was w/d seizure; I had what another
doc at an Emergency clinic called "myoclonic"
seizures when I was in the first stages of
w/d and my head started bobbing involuntarily -
he said those were not serious, but advised me
not to w/d on the net like that.This was reported to my doc by my mom over the
phone, as i looked very sick - she had to drag
her to the phone from another situation which
may have been worse. Just by the phone the doc
said it did not sound like seizure to him, but
rather withdrawal. However, this felt very sudden
- like a thunderbolt - leaving me very sick -
I had had withdrawal for a while, so it was
different whatever it was.I am not afraid to take a higher dose - perhaps
I should have been raised on the dose before
to avoid tolerance. Some people who are epileptic
take as high as 9 I saw in the CPS.Squiggles
Posted by Squiggles on April 8, 2002, at 7:04:15
In reply to Re: Klonopin epliepsy can work, posted by Spongemomsquarepants on April 7, 2002, at 23:20:42
My sympathies for your son;
I don't believe that Klonopin is addictive
as quickly or in the same way as the other
benzos; I went 7 yrs without having a dose
raise, BUT my doctor did raise it when I started
having strange symptoms;However, I think that it is particularly difficult
to withdraw from; I wonder if it does not actually
change brain structure.my best wishes to you;
Squiggles
Posted by Elizabeth on April 11, 2002, at 10:13:18
In reply to Re: Klonopin epliepsy can work, posted by Squiggles on April 8, 2002, at 7:04:15
> I don't believe that Klonopin is addictive
> as quickly or in the same way as the other
> benzos; I went 7 yrs without having a dose
> raise, BUT my doctor did raise it when I started
> having strange symptoms;What sort of symptoms (if I may ask)?
> However, I think that it is particularly difficult
> to withdraw from; I wonder if it does not actually
> change brain structure.No, not structure. But it is true that there are long-lasting (not necessarily permanent) changes associated with long-term benzo use; as much as a year following benzo discontinuation, there may still be EEG changes.
-elizabeth
Posted by Squiggles on April 11, 2002, at 10:23:16
In reply to Re: Klonopin epliepsy can work » Squiggles, posted by Elizabeth on April 11, 2002, at 10:13:18
Hi Elizabeth,
The symptoms which prompted by doctor to raise
the Klonopin (doubled) after about 7 years were:- dyspnea
- adverse interaction with lithium ingenstion
(i.e. i had to position my body on all fours
to allow muscles to let air in);
- stroke like sensation when missing a dose
- heat fluctuations or blood pressure dips and
rises suddenly;The most bothersome one - inability to breathe
esp. upon lithium ingestion. I do not know
pharmacology but I have read of drug displacement
and wondered if that was it;I am still feeling w/d from clonazapem after more
than a year - i had to reinstate; as i said i think
i had some traumatic head experience after a year
which necessitated the reinstatement.thanks for your attention;
Squiggles
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