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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 65. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alberto on August 31, 2002, at 0:50:18
Does anyone know whether it is safe to use benadryl to counter the effects of using ecstasy? If you use ecstasy late into the night and then are unable to sleep at, say, 7 am, is it safe to use benadryl as a method of being able to sleep? I cannot seem to find anything that addresses this.
Posted by missliz on August 31, 2002, at 3:29:45
In reply to Ecstasy and the use of Benadryl the next morning, posted by alberto on August 31, 2002, at 0:50:18
Since this is an illegal, dangerous, brain rotting street drug there aren't going to be any safe guidelines for using it are there? You're worried about Benedryl? Hasn't the horse already left the barn?
Considering how Ecstacy tears up brain tissue I think that sleep is the least of your problems. Why don't you Google it and see what the deal is?Miss Liz
Posted by alberto on August 31, 2002, at 13:53:41
In reply to Re: Ecstasy and the use of Benadryl the next morni, posted by missliz on August 31, 2002, at 3:29:45
Thanks very much, Miss Liz, for your very informative response. I realize the dangers of using ecstasy and have done a great deal of reading on the drug. Again, what I was hoping to find (and it is, by the way, a legitimate question), is any potential danger with using benadryl the morning after using ecstasy.
Please put your judgements aside if you chose to respond to my post. I don't believe that I should not show any concern for any part of my health and safety simply because I chose to use a drug recreationally that can be dangerous.
Thanks
> Since this is an illegal, dangerous, brain rotting street drug there aren't going to be any safe guidelines for using it are there? You're worried about Benedryl? Hasn't the horse already left the barn?
> Considering how Ecstacy tears up brain tissue I think that sleep is the least of your problems. Why don't you Google it and see what the deal is?
>
> Miss Liz
Posted by Jerrympls on August 31, 2002, at 15:56:55
In reply to Re: Ecstasy and the use of Benadryl the next morni, posted by missliz on August 31, 2002, at 3:29:45
> Since this is an illegal, dangerous, brain rotting street drug there aren't going to be any safe guidelines for using it are there? You're worried about Benedryl? Hasn't the horse already left the barn?
> Considering how Ecstacy tears up brain tissue I think that sleep is the least of your problems. Why don't you Google it and see what the deal is?
>
> Miss Liz
Extasy tears up brain tissue? Scary to think that it is a chemical cousin of Effexor.
Posted by crepuscular on September 1, 2002, at 16:25:29
In reply to Ecstasy and the use of Benadryl the next morning, posted by alberto on August 31, 2002, at 0:50:18
the only neuroprotective information i have found on ecstacy is using an SSRI about 2-3 hours after coming on to the x. in rats, this blocks most, if not all, neurotoxic effects. in humans? who knows.
oddly, ecstasy itself is not thoguht to cause the damage. the injury comes, rather, from massive free-radical release & transmitter cleavage products that blow out certain serotonin terminals. in other words, from what i have read, the overactivity of transmitters produces a pile of waste products that your body can't clear sufficiently. this waste clobbers your brain.
so, if you do ecstacy, take plenty of vitamins, stay hydrated, and munch ssri's a few hours after taking the x. it's still probably killing your brain, but at least you have a theoretical chance in hell.
i gave the drug up after a few uses. but i do have to say it was enormously beneficial for me in terms of social functioning and fear. i feel my life has benefitted from it. others may disagree and tear me a new one over this.
i will also make the same claim for judicious use of mushrooms and pot. i can't imagine going through life without experiencing the uncanny moments of still beauty that these compounds produced. i don't need them again, but i am glad i can recall specific moments. they are important to me, they are part of me. they are real.
c.
Posted by LostBoyinNC1 on September 1, 2002, at 18:01:51
In reply to Ecstasy and the use of Benadryl the next morning, posted by alberto on August 31, 2002, at 0:50:18
> Does anyone know whether it is safe to use benadryl to counter the effects of using ecstasy? If you use ecstasy late into the night and then are unable to sleep at, say, 7 am, is it safe to use benadryl as a method of being able to sleep? I cannot seem to find anything that addresses this.
The best way to avoid the effects of ecstasy is to never do ecstasy. Benadryl wont help your problem. Grow up and get real.LostBoyinNC
Posted by LostBoyinNC1 on September 1, 2002, at 18:06:24
In reply to Re: Ecstasy and the use of Benadryl the next morni, posted by alberto on August 31, 2002, at 13:53:41
You are going to end up with a nasty, ecstasy induced psychosis and thus most likely will end up with chronic longterm mental health problems. Ecstasy is a hallucinogenic drug and all hallucinogenic drugs will eventually cause psychosis if used enough.
I predict you will end up on atypical anti-psychotics someday or possibly even need ECT to get rid of a psychosis.
LostBoyinNC
Posted by Dinah on September 1, 2002, at 18:21:15
In reply to Re: Ecstasy is for losers, posted by LostBoyinNC1 on September 1, 2002, at 18:01:51
> Grow up and get real.
>
> LostBoyinNC
>Hi Lost Boy,
Dinah here, filling in for Dr. Bob while he's away.
As per the civility guidelines of this site, please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. Here is a link to the civility guidelines:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
As a reminder, the next step after a civility warning is to be blocked for a week, so you might want to review the above guidelines. I'd really rather have you stick around and contribute to the discussions here.
Thanks for your cooperation while Dr. Bob's away.
Dinah
Posted by cybercafe on September 1, 2002, at 22:40:21
In reply to Re: Please be civil » LostBoyinNC1, posted by Dinah on September 1, 2002, at 18:21:15
> > Grow up and get real.
> >
> > LostBoyinNC
> >
>
> Hi Lost Boy,
>
> Dinah here, filling in for Dr. Bob while he's away.
>
> As per the civility guidelines of this site, please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. Here is a link toI think if you are going against the advice of the medical profession and doing something that can bring on serious problems you problem aren't going to respond to anything other than 'tough love'.
I also find it hurtful to think that people who are really suffering through no fault of their own may be denied the care they need so that other people can play around with recreational drugs and have someone take care of them if anything goes wrong. (not attacking anyone specifically here since i don't know details)
basically all i'm saying is lostboy may be justified, i don't know
Posted by fachad on September 2, 2002, at 5:36:12
In reply to Ecstasy and the use of Benadryl the next morning, posted by alberto on August 31, 2002, at 0:50:18
Of course Ecstasy is illegal and may cause brain damage...but your question was about benadryl for sleep the next AM.
I don't know of any reason why that would be a problem...it is certianly much less dangerous than taking ecstasy in the first place.
I'd bet that Remeron would work even better, and you would not have to worry about anti-cholerenegic effects speeing up your heart and messing with your temperature regulation - those could be mild issues with Benedryl at label doses.
Anyway, Remeron 15mg or 30mg would likely put you to sleep.
> Does anyone know whether it is safe to use benadryl to counter the effects of using ecstasy? If you use ecstasy late into the night and then are unable to sleep at, say, 7 am, is it safe to use benadryl as a method of being able to sleep? I cannot seem to find anything that addresses this.
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 3, 2002, at 2:28:14
In reply to Ecstasy and the use of Benadryl the next morning, posted by alberto on August 31, 2002, at 0:50:18
Why fool around with Benadryl? Is it that you can't get a hold of a stronger benzo or hypnotic? I've done XTC oh, probably 10 times and experienced some of the most sublime blissful Universal states of compassion before or since. It may well have wrought damage to my neuro terminals, however, I can't imagine going my life through without having had that glimpse of something so transcendent. The main drawback was the coming down where I couldn't sleep at all and ended up feeling frazzled and burnt. I don't think Benedryl is going to even you out or give you the sedating effect you need. It won't necessarily hurt you, but somewhere in the back of my head I'm remembering that a power anti-histiminic effect can contribute to depression - and xtc can certainly cause rebound depression. I'd also do a double-check on taking xtra SSRI's as well since xtc acts on the serotonergic system and it's not clear what effect SSRI will have. But definitely B complex - lots. And valium, lorezapam, xanax is a much better bet than benedryl. Happy trails. And BTW, I'm really curious how many folks out there predicting that next stop is vegetable land have any first hand experience of this subject?
Posted by crepuscular on September 3, 2002, at 11:18:39
In reply to Re: Ecstasy and the use of Benadryl the next morning » alberto, posted by BarbaraCat on September 3, 2002, at 2:28:14
i think it depends on the person. i have a friend who a computer programmer, a massive vocabulary, IQ, etc. and has done E probably 80 times in the last 10 years. he never gets depressed, feels fine the next day, and shows no ill effects. he does not do it anymore because of what he's read -not what he's experienced.
He might have raphe nuclei made of stone. or maybe the damage will show up in 20 years as early-onset alzheimers. but he's no vegetable. Certainly the Partnership for a Drug Free America spots on the radio are counter to 99% of peoples experience with this drug. this ultimately reduces the authority value of the public health system.
we just needs facts. then people can make up their own minds.
Posted by trialerror on September 3, 2002, at 20:54:55
In reply to Re: Ecstasy and the use of Benadryl the next morning, posted by crepuscular on September 3, 2002, at 11:18:39
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,784711,00.html
ECSTASY NOT DANGEROUS, SAY SCIENTISTS
Sarah Boseley, health editor
Monday September 2, 2002
The GuardianThree leading psychologists have provoked an outcry by claiming that the dance drug ecstasy may not be dangerous and that some of its ill-effects may be imaginary.
The drug has been blamed for causing deaths and permanent brain damage, but the psychologists are strongly critical of animal and human studies into its effects, claiming that they are misleading and overestimate the harm ecstasy - scientifically known as MDMA - can cause.
Other scientists insisted that those who took ecstasy were undoubtedly risking their health and their life.
Two of the scientists challenging the established view are British and the third is American. Dr Jon Cole is a reader in addictive behaviour and Harry Sumnall is a postdoctoral researcher, both at Liverpool University. Professor Charles Grob is director of the division of child and adolescent psychiatry at the Harbor-UCLA Medical Centre in California.
Writing in the magazine the Psychologist, published by the British Psychological Society, they claim that many of the studies since 1995 have been flawed. They also accuse researchers of bias.
Ecstasy is said to affect cells in the brain which produce serotonin, the chemical known to influence mood. But the changes observed involved the degeneration of nerve fibres, which can be regrown, and not the cell bodies themselves, the psychologists say.
They accuse other scientists of minimising the impact of data suggesting that ecstasy exposure had no long-term effects. Although numerous tests were run on volunteers, only positive results were reported in detail, they say. "This suggests that hypotheses concerning the long-term effects of ecstasy are not being uniformly substantiated and lends support to the idea that ecstasy is not causing long-term effects associated with the loss of serotonin," write the authors.
The article is critical of the way studies involving young users have been conducted. They point out that many psychological problems start in adolescence anyway, ecstasy users invariably took other drugs as well, and some of the symptoms reported mirrored those caused by simply staying awake all night and dancing.
Most of the young people in the studies were volunteers from universities which raised questions about how representative they were of the population, the article says.
Most studies have failed to pinpoint ecstasy as the cause of problems, they say, and the animal studies were flawed and inconclusive.
They suggested that the long-term effects of the drug might be "iatrogenic", which is defined by the New Webster's dictionary as "caused by the mannerisms or treatment of a physician, an imaginary illness of the patient brought about by the physician".
Paul Betts, whose daughter, Leah, died after taking the drug in 1995, called the article "despicable".
Three other ecstasy experts writing in the Psychologist dismissed the notion that symptoms of long-term ecstasy use were all in the mind.
Dr Rodney Croft, a research fellow at the Swinburne University of Technology in Hawthorn, Australia, said: "There is strong evidence that ecstasy does cause impairment... although conclusions drawn from such evidence cannot be infallible, I believe the strength of this evidence makes 'danger' the most reasonable message for the researchers to be broadcasting."
About two million ecstasy tablets are believed to be taken by clubbers in the UK every weekend. Deaths linked to the drug have risen in the past decade. Between 1993 and 1997, there were 72. In 2000, there were 27, although 19 had other drugs in their system.
The exact cause of death cannot always be established, but where it has been, it was often dehydration.
Posted by shar on September 3, 2002, at 22:44:24
In reply to Re: Ecstasy and the use of Benadryl the next morning » alberto, posted by fachad on September 2, 2002, at 5:36:12
ok, if I'm understanding this correctly, the poster is merely asking whether benadryl will interact with the illegal drug he/she used.
Like, someone could post about having done too much coke and needs to take some benadryl and will it be safe.
Or crack. Or heroin.
I don't think the post is even appropriate for this board. IMHO, that is. Moreover, I tend to agree with lost boy and others about the person's approach to life. This board is full of people who are trying to get back on track, and someone bent on derailing just doesn't seem to warrant our "help" so s/he can continue illegal drug use.
Surely there must be an Ecstasy site somewhere.
Shar
Posted by Jerrympls on September 3, 2002, at 23:03:05
In reply to Ecstasy board?, posted by shar on September 3, 2002, at 22:44:24
I would think the last thing a illicit drug user would want to hear is another negative judgemental voice deeming his or her chosen as undeserving of our "help." Instead, since we are all apparently trying to get our lives back on track, wouldn't we want to lend a helping hand in regards to factual information of drug abuse and addiction help resources or simply stay out of the conversation completely?
I do no agree with illegal drug use & abuse, however, I refuse to waste my hard earned energy damning the lifestyle choices of another.
I'll probably get flamed for this - but c'mon people - Dr. Bob has other boards for posting personal judgements and if you don't like that this person even asked for out "help" then go on to the next message and put energy into helping someone with depression (or another mood disorder).
Geesh.
Posted by fachad on September 4, 2002, at 1:08:18
In reply to Ecstasy board?, posted by shar on September 3, 2002, at 22:44:24
That was a perfectly appropriate question, IMHO. This board is about psycho pharmaceuticals.
The general assumption is that they are medically and legally sanctioned drugs, administered by a physician. But really this board is about chemicals that interact with our nervous systems, and change our thoughts, feelings, and behaviors.
The differences between legal and illegal drugs are not as great as some people imagine. I am not condoning illegal psychoactive drugs; I am not even sure whether I wholeheartedly condone legal/medical psych drugs!
But the fact that the government has declared some chemicals illegal, and allows others to be aggressively pushed for profit, does not change the scientific fact that the distinction is far thinner than most people realize.
J. Allen Hobson, Professor of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School states this point quite nicely in his excellent book, The Dream Drugstore:
"The easiest brain-mind principle of all to grasp is this fundamental rule of psychopharmacology: many of the drugs currently prescribed by psychiatrists and other physicians...act on the brain-mind state control systems of the brain stem."
"What this means is that the most potent legal drugs in use today share common mechanisms with the illegal ones. A corollary of this principle is that the differences between legal and illegal drugs are never as sharp as the authorities who make and enforce the laws would have us believe."
You are also missing a very fundamental and critical distinction between recreational drug use and pathological drug abuse.
People will easily accept that someone can have a glass of wine or a drink with friends and not be an alcoholic. But if it's a chemical the government has declared to be illegal, suddenly everyone who uses it has an automatic "substance abuse problem". It really doesn’t make any sense, or even hold water from a scientific standpoint.
-fachad
> ok, if I'm understanding this correctly, the poster is merely asking whether benadryl will interact with the illegal drug he/she used.
>
> Like, someone could post about having done too much coke and needs to take some benadryl and will it be safe.
>
> Or crack. Or heroin.
>
> I don't think the post is even appropriate for this board. IMHO, that is. Moreover, I tend to agree with lost boy and others about the person's approach to life. This board is full of people who are trying to get back on track, and someone bent on derailing just doesn't seem to warrant our "help" so s/he can continue illegal drug use.
>
> Surely there must be an Ecstasy site somewhere.
>
> Shar
Posted by Dinah on September 4, 2002, at 4:06:34
In reply to Ecstasy board?, posted by shar on September 3, 2002, at 22:44:24
>This board is full of people who are trying to get back on track, and someone bent on derailing just doesn't seem to warrant our "help" so s/he can continue illegal drug use.
>
> Surely there must be an Ecstasy site somewhere.
>
> SharI am sorry Shar, but please don't say anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, or jump to conclusions about others or their experiences.
It's been my interpretation that Dr. Bob wants everyone to feel comfortable posting here as long as they abide by the guidelines. And that would be my wish as well. Moreover, I think it would fall outside of the civility guidelines to state that a poster isn't worthy of help.
I understand that you may have strong feelings on this subject, but I ask that you be careful in expressing them so that no poster feels uncomfortable in asking questions here.
Please? I appreciate your cooperation while Dr. Bob is away.
Dinah
Posted by Dinah on September 4, 2002, at 4:11:33
In reply to Re: Ecstasy board? » shar, posted by Jerrympls on September 3, 2002, at 23:03:05
> Dr. Bob has other boards for posting personal judgements and if you don't like that this person even asked for out "help" then go on to the next message and put energy into helping someone with depression (or another mood disorder).
>
> Geesh.Just wanted to make it clear that Dr. Bob doesn't have *any* boards for posting personal judgements about other posters. That would clearly fall outside of the civility guidelines.
Any followups to this post or administrative matters should be posted to the Administrative Board. Thank you.
Dinah
Posted by shar on September 4, 2002, at 12:02:51
In reply to Re: Please be civil » shar, posted by Dinah on September 4, 2002, at 4:06:34
Moreover, I think it would fall outside of the civility guidelines to state that a poster isn't worthy of help.
>
OK, this is a semantics issue, because I never said anything about this individual's worth as a human being, nor do I believe that an individual is "unworthy" because of drug use. I did say that type of POST (one to help further illegal drug use) didn't seem to warrant our help.
> so that no poster feels uncomfortable in asking questions here.
>
This is, imho, a VERY precarious position. I suppose ANY question can be asked, that's true, no matter how offensive or sadistic or criminal or etc., but I truly wonder if there is a goal to make sure every poster is comfortable about asking every question. We do already have questions/posts that are deleted outright, which would surely make a poster uncomfortable.Shar
> >
> Dinah
Posted by shar on September 4, 2002, at 12:04:52
In reply to Re: Please be civil » Dinah, posted by shar on September 4, 2002, at 12:02:51
Posted by wcfrench on September 4, 2002, at 12:51:36
In reply to Re: Please be civil » Dinah, posted by shar on September 4, 2002, at 12:02:51
I think we would all agree that illegal drugs usually, in some way, react with the treatment process and even sometimes the legal drugs that we do take. Just like two legal drugs can interact... you wouldn't go taking an MAOI with an SSRI. You wouldn't take anything else in addition to what your doctor prescribes because it could possibly interact. For example, if you take X, it might make you depressed the next day, just like drinking too much alcohol. Sure there are some that say X kills, there are some that claim there is no harm, but don't you think, while we are figuring this all out, that you should be staying on the safe side, especially if you already have a mental illness and are taking medication? Don't you think that, until we figure out the long-term effects and how it can affect depression, that you should hold off?
I think the reason people get upset at these posts is because taking illegal drugs or alcohol while being treated for mental illness can cause you to digress, or continue to be unsuccessful in your treatment. It is, for various reasons, the most UNRECOMMENDED thing you can do while being treated. It is, until conclusive evidence is given, counter-productive to wanting to be successful in the long-term. While so many others on this board are taking exactly what is prescribed, sleeping regularly, and not drinking or taking illegal drugs and are STILL working toward success or have not achieved it, others are doing what they feel and taking recreational drugs to feel better and have a good time regardless of the possible negative effects it could have on treatment.
So you can understand why many of the users on this board are not willing to support people who use illegal drugs. It is because maybe they want to drink heavily, or take X, or smoke pot, because they know it can make you feel great, but they chose not to because they want to be helped in the long run. They are doing the hard thing and listening to their doctor before they ask for others' help. So if you post a question regarding recreational drug use, and if you're not going to help yourself by doing the tough thing and listening to your doctor, then you should at least expect a little gruff from those who do. It's nothing personal.
Posted by Dinah on September 4, 2002, at 13:21:58
In reply to Re: Please be civil, posted by wcfrench on September 4, 2002, at 12:51:36
If you want to answer the poster's original question, it's fine to do that here. But if you want to discuss administrative actions or policy please redirect to the admin board (see the links at the top of the page. I believe Shar has already started a thread there.
Thanks,
Dinah
Posted by alberto on September 4, 2002, at 22:35:48
In reply to Re: Please be civil, posted by wcfrench on September 4, 2002, at 12:51:36
I think it's very interesting how the question really elicited an emotional response from people. The person poster below assumes that I have a mental illness that is being treated by a doctor (I posted the original question). True, my question was completely about trying to maintain some level of safety while using ecstasy as a recreational drug. I got some very good responses that were void of judgement as well as some that obviously struck others on a very personal level, perhaph because of their own mental health or recovery issues. Unfortunately, I was unable to find any such information from my local city public health resource (San Francisco), in spite of the fact that this city and county adopted a Harm Reduction policy toward substance use. Consider that providing people with accurate medical information vs. emotional reactions might actually convince somebody to rethink their own recreational drug use. There are many factors that contribute to one's dependence/abuse of substances. As I read through the responses, I tried hard to be objective to what I read, yet still found many posts that contained even choice of words that had so much negative connotations associated with them. I found it unneccessary to even use the word "illegal" in the reponse. This is not a debate about legalizing anything or even politics, simply the request for medical FACTS. Ok, no sense beating a dead horse. I say we bury the subject. good luck to all.
> I think we would all agree that illegal drugs usually, in some way, react with the treatment process and even sometimes the legal drugs that we do take. Just like two legal drugs can interact... you wouldn't go taking an MAOI with an SSRI. You wouldn't take anything else in addition to what your doctor prescribes because it could possibly interact. For example, if you take X, it might make you depressed the next day, just like drinking too much alcohol. Sure there are some that say X kills, there are some that claim there is no harm, but don't you think, while we are figuring this all out, that you should be staying on the safe side, especially if you already have a mental illness and are taking medication? Don't you think that, until we figure out the long-term effects and how it can affect depression, that you should hold off?
>
> I think the reason people get upset at these posts is because taking illegal drugs or alcohol while being treated for mental illness can cause you to digress, or continue to be unsuccessful in your treatment. It is, for various reasons, the most UNRECOMMENDED thing you can do while being treated. It is, until conclusive evidence is given, counter-productive to wanting to be successful in the long-term. While so many others on this board are taking exactly what is prescribed, sleeping regularly, and not drinking or taking illegal drugs and are STILL working toward success or have not achieved it, others are doing what they feel and taking recreational drugs to feel better and have a good time regardless of the possible negative effects it could have on treatment.
>
> So you can understand why many of the users on this board are not willing to support people who use illegal drugs. It is because maybe they want to drink heavily, or take X, or smoke pot, because they know it can make you feel great, but they chose not to because they want to be helped in the long run. They are doing the hard thing and listening to their doctor before they ask for others' help. So if you post a question regarding recreational drug use, and if you're not going to help yourself by doing the tough thing and listening to your doctor, then you should at least expect a little gruff from those who do. It's nothing personal.
Posted by shar on September 4, 2002, at 23:53:53
In reply to Re: X board? Post Was Appropriate, IMHO (A Rant) » shar, posted by fachad on September 4, 2002, at 1:08:18
In response to your post directed to me,
> The differences between legal and illegal drugs are not as great as some people imagine.
No disagreement here. Legality is a matter of law, not medicine. In fact, even the law isn't static about that, legality can change very quickly. [There is the problem of who's making the illegal stuff, and that can cause medical problems (like what they use to cut coke or heroin or who's cookin up the latest batch of meth), imo.]
>
> You are also missing a very fundamental and critical distinction between recreational drug use and pathological drug abuse.Please don't say things that could make me feel put down. We can't really say I've missed the point on something until I've posted about it. And my post was not about recreational drug use versus pathological drug abuse.
>
> People
>will easily accept that someone can have a glass of wine or a drink with friends and not be an alcoholic. But if it's a chemical the government has declared to be illegal, suddenly everyone who uses it has an automatic "substance abuse problem". It really doesn’t make any sense, or even hold water from a scientific standpoint.
>
>yes, I agree, some people do appear to buy into that. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are not aiming that particular criticism directly at me, even tho the post is directed to me.
Shar
-fachad
>
>
> > ok, if I'm understanding this correctly, the poster is merely asking whether benadryl will interact with the illegal drug he/she used.
> >
> > Like, someone could post about having done too much coke and needs to take some benadryl and will it be safe.
> >
> > Or crack. Or heroin.
> >
> > I don't think the post is even appropriate for this board. IMHO, that is. Moreover, I tend to agree with lost boy and others about the person's approach to life. This board is full of people who are trying to get back on track, and someone bent on derailing just doesn't seem to warrant our "help" so s/he can continue illegal drug use.
> >
> > Surely there must be an Ecstasy site somewhere.
> >
> > Shar
>
>
Posted by oracle on September 5, 2002, at 0:46:41
In reply to Re: Please be civil, posted by alberto on September 4, 2002, at 22:35:48
Unfortunately, I was unable to find any such information from my local city public health resource (San Francisco), in spite of the fact that this city and county adopted a Harm Reduction policy toward substance use.
Hmmmm......
Look harder, please ! There are resources everywhere in SF. Dr. Shungrin lives near by and
the Height Aubury Free Clinic (if it still exists) has done tons of studies. All of this without the judgement you received here.
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