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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by ross on August 30, 2002, at 10:36:15
In reply to Did your Dr. warn you of Tardive Movement Disorder, posted by action_jackson on August 30, 2002, at 9:51:04
chad. first off what with the socialfear link??
its in all your posts. that link is from a guy, i forget his name. why do u use it?
second taking a small dose 2.5 BID of zyprexa is not going to induce TD. as per study from medscape home page it might actually help TD.
if i start moving or anything else i will stop.
you have a thing for A/P. they are not as bad as u think in small dosages.
ross
Posted by Simcha on August 30, 2002, at 10:43:15
In reply to Re: Did your Dr. warn you of Tardive Movement Disorder, posted by ross on August 30, 2002, at 10:36:15
Zyprexa has been known to reduce the symptoms of TMD. It also can be used to help people sleep. They are finding that anti-psychotics may have other uses.
Just my 2 cents,
Simcha
Posted by ross on August 30, 2002, at 11:33:26
In reply to Re: Did your Dr. warn you of Tardive Movement Disorder, posted by Simcha on August 30, 2002, at 10:43:15
thank you simcha,,,,,
ross
Posted by JonW on August 30, 2002, at 12:05:17
In reply to Did your Dr. warn you of Tardive Movement Disorder, posted by action_jackson on August 30, 2002, at 9:51:04
You don't have to be psychotic to take anti-psychotics. They are used for depression, anxiety, agitation, bipolar disorder... many different things. They should be called mood normalizers or something like that.
Jon
Posted by cybercafe on August 30, 2002, at 12:36:27
In reply to Did your Dr. warn you of Tardive Movement Disorder, posted by action_jackson on August 30, 2002, at 9:51:04
> Your Dr. gives you an antipsychotic? And he does that in combo with a dopamine agonist (Nardil) - which increases risk of tardive movements. (so would wellbutrin + a/p, etc...)
where did you hear this?
Posted by Kari on August 30, 2002, at 14:44:50
In reply to Re: Did your Dr. warn you of Tardive Movement Disorder, posted by cybercafe on August 30, 2002, at 12:36:27
I also heard (from psychiatrists as well as people on psychiatric drugs) that combining ADs with APs increases the risk of developing TD.
Posted by cybercafe on August 30, 2002, at 20:14:43
In reply to Re: Did your Dr. warn you of Tardive Movement Disorder » cybercafe, posted by Kari on August 30, 2002, at 14:44:50
> I also heard (from psychiatrists as well as people on psychiatric drugs) that combining ADs with APs increases the risk of developing TD.
are any AD types more likely than others ?
any idea how greatly the risk is increased? or if it's dose dependent?
Posted by action_jackson on August 31, 2002, at 1:51:10
In reply to Re: Did your Dr. warn you of Tardive Movement Disorder, posted by ross on August 30, 2002, at 10:36:15
Ross -
> chad. first off what with the socialfear link??
> its in all your posts. that link is from a guy, i forget his name. why do u use it?For some reason I had to keep getting new names on this board (I think they expired after a time of non-use or something) ... I should probably drop actionjackson for chad which also is same as ray (I'm the guy with SP website BTW) also = in past krekpark = rick_1001? = ... think that's it!! : )
> second taking a small dose 2.5 BID of zyprexa is not going to induce TD. as per study from medscape home page it might actually help TD.
Not so sure about that - have posted elsewhere on it so probably will just repeat myself here ... I do think zyprexa is "safer" than risperdal or amisulpride - but in my case a few days of <2.5mg made my own problem worse ... classic TD usually takes long term use (common in skitzophrenics on high doses) - but depression / anxious disoders - those patients often get tardive movements (not necesarrily "tardive dyskinesia" but other tardive movements disorders - ie; tardive dystonia, tardive complex tics, etc... which can occur quickly and at low doses ... esp. in young males - and esp with concurrent meds. Also - you are unlikely to develop tardive (chronic persistent) movements while on zyprexa - but rather when you *stop* - a/p's are sometimes (controversially) used to "treat" TD and tardive disorders because they "mask" the symptoms - while tending to simeoultaneously make the problem worse for the person requiring dose increases down the road or increases in movements or both...
> if i start moving or anything else i will stop.oops - i replied to this above.
> you have a thing for A/P. they are not as bad as u think in small dosages.
Probably some people with depression /anxiety are better off with them ... maybe you are right ... but now me anyway that's for sure ... I noticed a lot of posters here seemed to have eps and weren't psychotic or skitzophrenic also ...
Chad
http://www.socialfear.com/> ross
Posted by action_jackson on August 31, 2002, at 1:53:21
In reply to Re: Did your Dr. warn you of Tardive Movement Disorder, posted by ross on August 30, 2002, at 11:33:26
Axiolytic antidepressants (ie; Paxil) - and benzo's - don't they also help TMJ and sleep?
> thank you simcha,,,,,
> ross
Posted by action_jackson on August 31, 2002, at 2:55:10
In reply to Re: Did your Dr. warn you of Tardive Movement Disorder, posted by cybercafe on August 30, 2002, at 12:36:27
Ross -
Studies so far with these new atypicals - the large studies - are primarily done on schitzophrenics and bipolar's in "manic" state - or perhaps in "psychosis". All of these groups are most resilient to getting tardive EPS or tardive movement disorders. Affective patients (those getting atypicals at low dose for "off-label" use) - are the ones at much higher risk - and large studies are few to none in this area ...
There are numerous case reports of low dose risperidone and other atypical a/ps inducing tardive dystonia, chorea, TD, etc... and mostly these are "case reports" so far - and I see usually the abstract text is usually "blocked" in these particular cases on Pubmed. You can see on this board alone that many here have tardive eps and have no condition consistent with accepted use of atypicals ...
anyway... a couple abstracts - also keep in mind as I said I believe this stuff is way underreported - people here for example are mentioning peramanet drug senstitivity or eps and saying things like "oh by the way I was also taking low dose risperidone..." ...
I think it will take awhile - the Dr's are not telling the patients that their eps was caused by the Dr's drug - virtually no Dr. wants to do that because using these drugs off label and causing that stuff is negligent.
So these simple case reports - none of them is going to seem convincing to your question - I can't give you hard proof ... if I could afterall - there wouldn't really even be a debate on this topic ... I think time will tell...
Still - after copying some of these - I got tired - a lot even though I'm sure is just a tiny percent of cases as most are unreported in jounrals or maybe even understood by patients as what really caused their problem.
Also keep in mind that A/P's "mask" tardive movements - so often a person will take an A/P - get a disorder - and never know until discontinuing - then will have to back on the A/P just to prevent the new movement disorder caused by brain lesion - which is likely going to continue to get worse as they age and continue on with A/P's.... A damaged brain is not usually repairable ...
Chad
http://www.socialfear.com/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9752071&dopt=Abstracthttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8990067&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8899136&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9727307&dopt=Abstracthttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9562211&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9949942&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9491064&dopt=Abstract
> > Your Dr. gives you an antipsychotic? And he does that in combo with a dopamine agonist (Nardil) - which increases risk of tardive movements. (so would wellbutrin + a/p, etc...)
>
> where did you hear this?
>
Posted by ross on August 31, 2002, at 7:16:03
In reply to Ross: A little on atipical caused tardive EPS, posted by action_jackson on August 31, 2002, at 2:55:10
i knew you where rick. how are you? the Nardil is working fine. better than anything in the past. as far as social phobia its ok. i have devolped a tic in my right arm. if it gets worse i will scrap the zyprexa. which im taking for of course anxiety. its the new psychiatry. give em A/P's to lessen their anxiety. i see my pdoc in about 20 days and will get some sh*t staight. thanks for your support though.
how where you on 90 mgs of Nardil? the only thing im complaining about is anorgasmia. who dosent on Nardil? your web page is still great. good info!!
take it east
ross
Posted by Kari on August 31, 2002, at 7:36:38
In reply to Re: Did your Dr. warn you of Tardive Movement Disorder, posted by cybercafe on August 30, 2002, at 20:14:43
> > I also heard (from psychiatrists as well as people on psychiatric drugs) that combining ADs with APs increases the risk of developing TD.
>
> are any AD types more likely than others ?
>
>
> any idea how greatly the risk is increased? or if it's dose dependent?
>Sorry, I don't know. It's probably different for each individual anyway.
Posted by judy1 on August 31, 2002, at 18:40:43
In reply to Did your Dr. warn you of Tardive Movement Disorder, posted by action_jackson on August 30, 2002, at 9:51:04
i'm another one who feels APs have no place in treatment except for people experiencing psychosis (and i also got EPS and TD from low dose atypicals- and that was for psychotic manic episodes). so if a benzo doesn't help your agitation, did you try raising the dose, another benzo, etc? take care, judy
Posted by action_jackson on September 1, 2002, at 14:47:26
In reply to chad its good to hear from you:), posted by ross on August 31, 2002, at 7:16:03
Ross -
I'm doing good - I have had a loooong interruption from my previous routine - and I'm hoping that soon most of these problems will be behind me. After my diagnosis 2 weeks ago I have started approaching my old regimen again - probably will be a little different this time though ... will see how things go ...
> i knew you where rick. how are you? the Nardil is working fine. better than anything in the past. as far as social phobia its ok. i have devolped a tic in my right arm.
Who diagnosed it? Did he/she tell you how you got it? You never had tics before did you?
if it gets worse i will scrap the zyprexa.
Only comment here is that Zyprexa might very well be "masking" part of the movements. If you stop zyprexa, taper off it slowly BTW, and of course talk about it with Mr/Ms Dr - (might want 2nd opinion if they seem deceptive).
which im taking for of course anxiety. its the new psychiatry. give em A/P's to lessen their anxiety.
Yes. Big money in Zyprexa right now - and I guess the Dr's have the OK in safety go-ahead for most any use at the present time...
i see my pdoc in about 20 days and will get some sh*t staight. thanks for your support though.
> how where you on 90 mgs of Nardil?Once at high dose (for me also was 90 relatively high for most) - it took 4 months for 80% of sexual side effects to go away - efficacy maintained. I was left with sexual side effects roughly equal to when I tried 20 Celexa, 150 Effexor, and 50 Zoloft - and none of those helped my condition much - wheareas 90 Nardil was awesome.
Have you been at 90 for several months. You sound so good right now Ross. I hope you stay with it - and consider swapping out Zyprexa for Klonopin (which has a long half life like Zyprexa)... or at least to stay off all a/p's unless they really help you as other treatment doesn't. But I would bet that the Nardil is what is really working for you - not Zyprexa...
And on sexual side effects. I hope you will be patient - and enjoy feeling good - and probably the sexual side effects will greatly diminish. You will never be trapped and there are alternatives but give it some time and glad to hear you are feeling better ! (save the current side effect)...
Sincerely,
Chad (rick/kregpark/actionjackson,etc etc).
the only thing im complaining about is anorgasmia.
who dosent on Nardil?
your web page is still great. good info!!> take it east
> ross
Posted by action_jackson on September 1, 2002, at 15:00:15
In reply to Re: Did your Dr. warn you of Tardive Movement Disorder, posted by judy1 on August 31, 2002, at 18:40:43
Hi Judy -
I have primary Social Anxiety Disorder, and never really was in need of an A/P. We tried low dose amisulpride due to a reported anti-dysthymic, anti-social phobia effect which is maybe preferiantelly effective for males. Well - it was all of those things probably, but also quite powerfully and rapidly gave me acute dystonic reactions and then chronic movements...
I went off medicines to help evaluate the movements which were probably masked quite a bit by Klonopin. Now I am resuming Klonopin again after getting movement dx. Also resumed very low Nardil. Will be adjusting next weeks I'm sure...
If you have time - what med / duration / symtpoms did you get from the low dose a/p. Which a/p was it? (sorry the flurry of questions - I just have been amazed how much of this I see here - Dr's I talk to are still afraid to discuss much and/or are unaware of problem I think).
Chad
> i'm another one who feels APs have no place in treatment except for people experiencing psychosis (and i also got EPS and TD from low dose atypicals- and that was for psychotic manic episodes). so if a benzo doesn't help your agitation, did you try raising the dose, another benzo, etc? take care, judy
Posted by cybercafe on September 1, 2002, at 17:33:12
In reply to Hi Ross - , posted by action_jackson on September 1, 2002, at 14:47:26
hmmm... i hear zyprexa is supposed to have the lowest incidence of EPS/TD, with the possible exception of clozapine no?
i don't know how high the rate is with amisulpide but i don't have a good reason to think it's lower than zyprexa at this point in time.......
i also noticed that the links you gave were mainly for risperdal, and yeah, i know risperdal is pretty much up there with haldol in terms of badness ........ so zyprexa is an awesome drug for me, in terms of primary effect, ... i am hoping these side effects (pin pricks + dystonia?) are only temporary, .... if my doc says they don't go away, i'd like to go off it..... don't know what i'd try to decrease activity in neocortex .... perhaps just switch parnate to moclobemide ? ... i really wish i could get my hands on a selective 5ht2 antagonist ....
do you have a reason to believe zyprexa is as bad as risperdal or amisulpide actionjackson?
anyways... hope you can get rid of your neurological problems.... with a stimulant? ... or ECT? ...
Posted by judy1 on September 1, 2002, at 21:23:41
In reply to Judy - on a/p trial ..., posted by action_jackson on September 1, 2002, at 15:00:15
unfortunately, i started with injections of haldol and thorazine- both resulting in acute dystonia within a week. on the atypicals- i had akathisia on 4mg/day of risperdal within 24 hours; zyprexa induced parkinsonism at 5mg/day in a week (at 10 mg/day it took 3 days) i loathe these drugs- my pdoc has seen incidences of EPS in about 75% of patients on atypicals. hope this helps- judy
Posted by judy1 on September 1, 2002, at 21:31:52
In reply to Re: Judy - on a/p trial ... » action_jackson, posted by judy1 on September 1, 2002, at 21:23:41
i take cogentin (benztropine) 2mg bid when on an a/p for psychosis- it helps, but i still have symptoms during stressful periods even when not taking an a/p. take care, judy
Posted by action_jackson on September 2, 2002, at 1:21:37
In reply to APS - EPS » action_jackson, posted by cybercafe on September 1, 2002, at 17:33:12
Cybercafe -
Amisulpride is in class same as "metaclopramide" (anti-nausea dopamine blocker in USA) and "sulpiride" overseas. All cause complex movements - yet are considered "very safe" to the point amisulpride may make it into USA soon.
You are right I think - zyprexa considred safer than the above a/p's - and only clozapine not implicated in tardive movement disorders.
I don't know how "safe" any of these drugs are. My understanding is zyprexa studies are mainly switchovers from patients on old DA blockers - and thus comparatively very safe. Also my understanding still a certain % get tardive movement disorder when starting out with zyprexa as first a/p.
I have resumed Klonopin (I lowered to see extent of movements - they seem now controlled again - and I hope I will not have much problems in future. My main concern was if anything was progressive - which sounds like probably not if I stay off all DA blockers (that part will be cake).
Unless I have some weird progressive underlying disease ECT is not in my future - but rather a return to treating my SP. I think while taking an AP, is virtually impossible to evaluate extent or even if a movement disorder is present. Zyrpexa is "good for Tardive movements - read good to MASK them".
Is Zyprexa safe - probably a lot safer than most other DA blockers. I'm no Dr. Free country. Just wanted to share my story and opinions and good luck to all.
==============
Judy - Thanks for sharing your story, and sorry at the same time that it ever had to happen. I'm glad that the anticholinergic helps your case. My case seems good for Klonopin - a med I took already anyway so is kind of ideal for me.Good luck all!!!
Chad
http://www.socialfear.com/> hmmm... i hear zyprexa is supposed to have the lowest incidence of EPS/TD, with the possible exception of clozapine no?
>
> i don't know how high the rate is with amisulpide but i don't have a good reason to think it's lower than zyprexa at this point in time.......
> i also noticed that the links you gave were mainly for risperdal, and yeah, i know risperdal is pretty much up there with haldol in terms of badness ....
>
> .... so zyprexa is an awesome drug for me, in terms of primary effect, ... i am hoping these side effects (pin pricks + dystonia?) are only temporary, .... if my doc says they don't go away, i'd like to go off it..... don't know what i'd try to decrease activity in neocortex .... perhaps just switch parnate to moclobemide ? ... i really wish i could get my hands on a selective 5ht2 antagonist ....
>
> do you have a reason to believe zyprexa is as bad as risperdal or amisulpide actionjackson?
>
> anyways... hope you can get rid of your neurological problems.... with a stimulant? ... or ECT? ...
Posted by action_jackson on September 2, 2002, at 9:53:30
In reply to Re: Judy - on a/p trial ... » action_jackson, posted by judy1 on September 1, 2002, at 21:23:41
Judy -
Sounds like you are / or have become / really sensitive to all of the DA blockers (in my case even 2 days of ultra low (1.25mg x 2 days) zyprexa) made my problem take a significant turn worse.
Sounds like your Dr. is pretty straight forward on DA blocker induced movements. I'm not sure why you have taken DA blockers but sounds like maybe your Dr. is even reluctant to give them to you? I have heard that many people get "metaclopramide" (for nausea) induced tardive movement disorders in USA. Apparently this was a big area of lawsuit - except that Dr's are able to keep this pretty quiet and out of journals and courts by settling privately - keeping all parties sworn to keep quiet about it.
I don't mean to sound paranoid about this - but I do think that a lot events that would make "bad press" or be "unprofitable" to companies - and which could end up in public court and press instead go to private settlement.
Judy - sounds like you had to educate yourself on lots of the terms (I know I did) - you menioned differnt stuff like "parkinsonism, akathisia" etc ... My experience with this stuff was I had to self-educate because no Dr. wanted to really talk to me about it (or maybe more significant even those who did didn't seem to know to much about the complexities of drug induced movements so many types etc).
Chad
http://www.socialfear.com/
(feel I've overplugged my website maybe?...) ; )Take Care
> unfortunately, i started with injections of haldol and thorazine- both resulting in acute dystonia within a week. on the atypicals- i had akathisia on 4mg/day of risperdal within 24 hours; zyprexa induced parkinsonism at 5mg/day in a week (at 10 mg/day it took 3 days) i loathe these drugs- my pdoc has seen incidences of EPS in about 75% of patients on atypicals. hope this helps- judy
Posted by ross on September 2, 2002, at 10:21:32
In reply to Hi Ross - , posted by action_jackson on September 1, 2002, at 14:47:26
great reply to me. thanks. im on 75mgs of Nardil now for 1 month. all of the side eefects are gone except anorgasmia which will go away with time you say. i would say Nardil is very smooth. i see my pdoc soon and am currently thinking about 90mgs. but if im doing well on 75mg why bother?
its just that extra 15mgs that might send me over the edge and make me feel awesome. you know i might get more dopamine floating around on 90mg. anyways im doing well and i dont want to mess with it right now.
chad what are you taking? i rememeber you where a big fan of a small dose of Provigil along with Nardil. how is your current mood?
would like to know
ross
Posted by action_jackson on September 2, 2002, at 10:27:10
In reply to APS - EPS » action_jackson, posted by cybercafe on September 1, 2002, at 17:33:12
Cybercafe -
Parkinson's Disease patients are good examples of those who really are supposed to avoid all atypicals. Only clozapine does not apparently worsen Parkinson's - but also does not seem to benefit too many with Parkinson's + something else like psychosis which might call for an atypical.
The old DA blockers - it is known that even skitzophrenics who have HUGE tolerance for the effects of DA blockers and tolerate HUGE doses taken daily - even they will often (I think usually) get Tardive Dyskinesia after use for several years. And in these patients - the problem may not really be known until it occurs while they are still taking the A/P - meaning off the A/P the problem is worse - they must continue the A/P simply to avoid more severe movements - which are chronic and persistent and disfiguring.
Well a lot of different movements including classic TD occur in non-skitzophrenics - only are probably much more likely to occur more quickly and at lower doses. I see some info that there is no proof in fact that low doses are necessarily much safer than high doses in - and also that it is thought that intermittent use of DA blockers may be more damaging than ongoing.
The longer the use of any DA blocker - any movmeent disorders existing tends to get worse not better (reports of atypicals helping movements -- these are compared to older drugs - or as a "mask" compared to no drugs - discontinuation results in movements worse than with treatment - at least certainly in all tardive hyperkinetic movements beyond "classic TD" which is most common in those with skitzophrenia taking a/p's for years .. they are more immune to hyperkinetic disorders maybe due to abnormally high dopamine levels?? don't know why but seems to be the case that they mostly get "classic TD" - the type mostly seen before we started giving these drugs to other types of patients).
In all the treatment resistant people reporting here - how many seemed maintained on long term - many year atypical use? Seems to me I see people talking about shorter trials - still often resulting in abnormal movements at least for a short time if not more chronically.
Moclobomide and Parnate are good a/d's and serotonin and dopamine agonists - both are activating and aren't really anti-anxiety at least not much. Zyprexa is kind of opposite except than can also give antidepressant effect - but is a tranquilizer - anti anxiety, and serotnoin and dopamine blocker. Mostly opposite of moclobomide and parnate.
SSRI like Zoloft is antidepressant and mostly depletes dopamine (kind of zyprexa like effect) - except does not block serotonin. Adding serzone to Zoloft can reduce anxiety more - maybe boost antianxiety effect. Actually only time I really cared for serzone was when I tried adding 300 to the 50 zoloft I was trying out.
Chad
http://www.socialfear.com/> .... so zyprexa is an awesome drug for me, in terms of primary effect, ... i am hoping these side effects (pin pricks + dystonia?) are only temporary, .... if my doc says they don't go away, i'd like to go off it..... don't know what i'd try to decrease activity in neocortex .... perhaps just switch parnate to moclobemide ? ... i really wish i could get my hands on a selective 5ht2 antagonist ....
>
> do you have a reason to believe zyprexa is as bad as risperdal or amisulpide actionjackson?
>
> anyways... hope you can get rid of your neurological problems.... with a stimulant? ... or ECT? ...
Posted by cybercafe on September 2, 2002, at 11:09:53
In reply to Cybercafe + misc DA blocker tardive disorder news, posted by action_jackson on September 2, 2002, at 10:27:10
> Moclobomide and Parnate are good a/d's and serotonin and dopamine agonists - both are activating and aren't really anti-anxiety at least not much. Zyprexa is kind of opposite except than can also give antidepressant effect - but is a tranquilizer - anti anxiety, and serotnoin and dopamine blocker. Mostly opposite of moclobomide and parnate.
i found parnate to brighten my mood and make me more interested in people then in feeling sad, which certainly helps social phobia big timei met a lady at a support group who said moclobemide really helped her
> SSRI like Zoloft is antidepressant and mostly depletes dopamine (kind of zyprexa like effect) - except does not block serotonin. Adding serzone to Zoloft can reduce anxiety more - maybe boost antianxiety effect. Actually only time I really cared for serzone was when I tried adding 300 to the 50 zoloft I was trying out.
how well did serzone + zoloft work for you?
did you still need to take a benzo?
Posted by action_jackson on September 2, 2002, at 15:10:31
In reply to Re: Cybercafe + misc DA blocker tardive disorder news, posted by cybercafe on September 2, 2002, at 11:09:53
Cybercafe -
I'm not sure your case - I have primary SP and secondary dysthymia or mild depression. Klonopin works great for my SP, but has no direct antidepressant effect in my case.
Zoloft and Serzone are not primary choices for me - as they are not robustly effective for SP at least in my case. I think that Serzone can decrease Zoloft induced fatigue and sexual side effects - without necessarily eliminating the antidepressant effect of Zoloft. That is what I experienced, and I have noticed that Serzone is sometimes used for SSRI induced sexual dysfunction. I have found Serzone's effect to be pretty unpredictable - depending on what, if anything it is combined with - varying a lot with dose - and the short half life changing things too. So I really am not much a fan of SErzone overall - I don't think it is very potent anyway by itself - and so I view it as more of an "add on" in the less simple treatment regimens.
If you want to discuss further anytime - feel free to write me - there is a link at the bottom of my website. Good luck to you and thanks for your input on these topics.
Chad
http://www.socialfear.com/> i found parnate to brighten my mood and make me more interested in people then in feeling sad, which certainly helps social phobia big time
>
> how well did serzone + zoloft work for you?
> did you still need to take a benzo?
Posted by action_jackson on September 2, 2002, at 15:26:19
In reply to Re: Hi Ross - chad, posted by ross on September 2, 2002, at 10:21:32
Ross -
I just want to say congratulations Ross for what you accomplished for yourself. I remember a couple of your posts a while back - and wow you sound so much more upbeat I'm really glad for you!
i would say Nardil is very smooth. i see my pdoc soon and am currently thinking about 90mgs. but if im doing well on 75mg why bother?
I took Nardil at 90 for 2.5 years. I can recall ramping up - being at 75 and hearing my Dr. suggest trying 90. And I remember thinking "oh my god - what about the sexual side effects". Well my case is not your case - and I'm glad you are feeling good - that is key. In my case I did go up - and ended up with continual good SP treatment the entire 2.5 years - it took a good 3 or 4 months for the sexual side effects to improve - about 80% I would say as I posted earlier. I was worried - he reassured me - and he was about right.
The most important thing is that you are feeling better, happier, and more productive.
In my case - after 2.5 years at 90 Nardil - I had a girlfriend for 1 year, and at that point - there was an adjustment to my regimen. But honestly I would not have changed anythiing sooner - because I felt so great and was so productive with Nardil 90, and it was perfect for me at the time. The point is - there are other things you can do - but nothing you will find will be perfect - there is going to be trade offs and to try accept the imperfect benefits - and to remember where you were and where you are now. Anyway that is what I try to do.
To answer your question though - I went off my regimen in February after I acquired DA blocker chronic movements. It is now September and I'm ready to resume full treatment - and have started that about 2 weeks ago - which will take awhile and may be a little different than last year - or maybe not. A year ago I was taking 60 Nardil (for me is low dose) + 50-75 Provigil + 2.5 Klonopin. I will be sure to let you know when I get back to a stable regimen. Now I'm increasing Klonopin above 2.0, and at sub-therapetuic 45 Nardil, and that's it. I will see about Nardil - if I will keep it or change it. But probably some changes coming up here in next 1-2 months.
Write me anytime if you want - link at end of my webpage. Great job and you did it nobody else!
Chad
http://www.socialfear.com/
> its just that extra 15mgs that might send me over the edge and make me feel awesome. you know i might get more dopamine floating around on 90mg. anyways im doing well and i dont want to mess with it right now.
> chad what are you taking? i rememeber you where a big fan of a small dose of Provigil along with Nardil. how is your current mood?
> would like to know
> ross
>
This is the end of the thread.
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