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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dave001 on September 2, 2002, at 19:18:39
This message is a copy of a post I made to a Usenet group. I'm hoping I might get some additional feedback from some of you here. I'm including two posts, one of which was a follow-up to someone's reply in the thread; they are separated to avoid confusion.
-Dave
---------------------------------------------My depression has not responded to any of the hundreds of useless drugs available such as the SSRIs (which perform only marginally, if at all, superior to placebo in most studies), etc. Trust me, I've tried every combo and augmentation strategy known to mankind over the last 8 years. Basically, it is down to MAOIs.
But I am concerned that the MAOIs and their effect on blood pressure could have serious consequences when combined with intense physical training, such as boxing, basketball, and weightlifting (heavy).
It is mainly the idea of BP fluctuations that concern me; this does not necessarily mean hypertension, either. Could be, e.g., orthostatic hypotension combined with performing heavy squats (as if the partial 'Valsalva manuever' does not cause significant BP fluctuations on its own...).
Would anyone here with a knowledge of this subject care to comment? Any information appreciated.
TIA
-Dave
---------------------------------------------
What concerns me most, is the possibility of collapsing with a 500+ lb barbell resting on my traps while doing heavy squats, or similar movement which causes a temporary surge and subsequent rapid drop of BP on its own. If I only needed to take the AD until my depression were lifted, this would be of little concern; but since my depression is endogenous or "biological" in origin, I will most likely need to remain on an AD indefinitely. From what I have found in the literature, the MAOIs seem to be of special value in treating depressed patients with social anxiety problems, of which I am among...
BTW, isn't the amino acid tyrosine decarboxylated in vivo to tyramine? If so, how does protein consumption not cause problems? I try to consume at least 200 gm of protein/day.
-Dave
Posted by Seamus2 on September 2, 2002, at 22:36:45
In reply to MAOIs and intense physical training, posted by Dave001 on September 2, 2002, at 19:18:39
MAOI's will make you more prone to "grey-outs" but a simple "head between the legs" tuck will fix that.
I think the "carotid reflex" is dampened; but that's a layman's fancy thinking on terms unclear to him.
Once steady-state on MAOI's, the effects are consistent; and though I have no experience with Vasalva-like maneuvers while on MAOI's, I think they'd be okay once you learn your body's reaction to them.
In my experience, Nardil had more of a effect on BP than Parnate; I switched to Parnate after quite a few years because of the anorgasmia. Wish I had taken it sooner...
Seamus
Posted by cybercafe on September 3, 2002, at 3:31:26
In reply to MAOIs and intense physical training, posted by Dave001 on September 2, 2002, at 19:18:39
i took 3 or 4 days off of weightlifting, .. about 3 weeks off martial arts.. now i have no problems ...
in fact thanks to parnate i am doing pretty much all of the weight on the stacks
Posted by Dave001 on September 5, 2002, at 18:33:59
In reply to Re: MAOIs and intense physical training, posted by cybercafe on September 3, 2002, at 3:31:26
> i took 3 or 4 days off of weightlifting, .. about 3 weeks off martial arts.. now i have no problems ...
> in fact thanks to parnate i am doing pretty much all of the weight on the stacksSo, in your case, Parnate actually improved your strength? That is a relief to hear. It definitely seems that Parnate is the MAOI of choice for athletes; Nardil sounds too sedating and has more affect on blood pressure.
Thanks for your feedback.
Dave
Posted by Vince on September 5, 2002, at 23:13:13
In reply to MAOIs and intense physical training, posted by Dave001 on September 2, 2002, at 19:18:39
> ...
> BTW, isn't the amino acid tyrosine decarboxylated in vivo to tyramine? If so, how does protein consumption not cause problems? I try to consume at least 200 gm of protein/day.
>
> -Dave
>Apparrantly not at a rate that is harmful. It's only when tyrosine is converted to tyramine in the process of aging cheese and meats that seems to matter. I guess much more must be converted this way.
I've read on this group that you shouldn't use protein powders especially ion exchange whey. I wonder if significant amounts of tyrosine really would be created in processing protein powders - maybe ion exchange but what about Cross-Flow Microfiltration Whey Protein? That processing shouldn't be harsh enough to cause any chemical breakdown. You wouldn't think that it would be any worse than cottage cheese, which is permissable. I wonder where I could find out for sure?
Vince
Posted by cybercafe on September 6, 2002, at 1:00:05
In reply to Re: MAOIs and intense physical training, posted by Dave001 on September 5, 2002, at 18:33:59
> So, in your case, Parnate actually improved your strength? That is a relief to hear. It definitely seems that Parnate is the MAOI of choice for athletes; Nardil sounds too sedating and has more affect on blood pressure.
yes parnate totally improved my strength
i'm taking both zyprexa and parnate now, both of which are known to cause orthostatic hypotension... but i'm alright. i know i really limit myself when i make decisions based on the assumption that i will get the worst side effects of every med
This is the end of the thread.
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