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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 46. Go back in thread:
Posted by Jefff on December 13, 2002, at 5:09:55
In reply to Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please., posted by jay on December 12, 2002, at 21:07:18
Same exact thing here dude...
A couple months ago I began researching new meds on the net (and found this message board) due to the fact that I was about to explode from rage, anger and anxiety (of course with life long depression). I discovered benzodiazepines, got prescribed 2mg Klonopin per day (or the generic Clonazepam... Ive tried both and didnt notice a difference in either) and my anger and severe anxiety is now basically gone. Its totally calmed me down... now that I look back to two months ago I can even better recognize how damn miserably angry I was and how much more even balanced/calm I am now. Im still working with the depression, but honestly I think its worse to feel constant rage and fury than it is to feel depressed (which is so hellish in its own hellish way).
Sooo, perhaps you could try the Benzo's if you already havent.
good luck,
Jeff
(BTW, to whoever cares, I own 16 cats and one chameleon and also hate people who are cruel to animals)
Posted by justyourlaugh on December 13, 2002, at 7:37:14
In reply to Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please., posted by jay on December 12, 2002, at 21:07:18
jay jay
very angry here too...
i wish everyone would go away..
i am starting to shout at strangers..
taken to hospital in cuffs last weekend by thepolice;(
i think i am emploding
jyl
Posted by utopizen on December 13, 2002, at 8:01:45
In reply to Re: Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please. » jay, posted by justyourlaugh on December 13, 2002, at 7:37:14
Ever watch Animal Planet's Animal Precinct? I've never watched something so cool before- animal abusers getting arrested.
We should take these people out and throw them in a pit and splash them with fire hoses for several years without stopping. Smaller the animal, greater the crime someone said. Apparently, though, legislators never heard that one...
Posted by wharfrat on December 13, 2002, at 8:56:05
In reply to Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please., posted by jay on December 12, 2002, at 21:07:18
>
> Right now..I am just on Risperdal. I am miserable, angry, and absolutely hate anybody who causes me *any* problems. This can be anybody..from my Mom to anybody on the street.
>
> My temper is just ready to crack..and antidepressants and 'mood stabalizers' don't bring much relief...and can often make things *worse*.
>
> Is it possible for someone to be in such a state of depressed anxious psychosis that *everything* makes me miserable? Geezzus...I just want some relief..please! Any special med combo or such? I've been grinding at this for 10 years. I just want to yell, cry, scream. This isn't just a few months or a couple of years..it is a decade!! If there is no hope...why even bother with carrying on...it's just pain. Any help...please.
>
> Thank you,
> JayJay,
My doc put me on lexapro for depression & GAD (my 1st time on an AD) I had gotten to the point of being so angry, that every little thing would get under my skin. I've gotten a lot better with my anger, anxiety and depression. Although had a major set back on the hiway with an ass riding b***h. Just could'nt resist chasing her down and telling what a F****d up driver she is. That did'nt make my wife very happy but I felt better.
But, I don't feel that way very often anymore. My kids are still trying readjust to me not screaming at them all the time. Hope you find something that helps you because I know it's a horrible existence.
Good luck,
Wharf
Posted by Ritch on December 13, 2002, at 9:53:13
In reply to Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please., posted by jay on December 12, 2002, at 21:07:18
>
> Right now..I am just on Risperdal. I am miserable, angry, and absolutely hate anybody who causes me *any* problems. This can be anybody..from my Mom to anybody on the street.
>
> My temper is just ready to crack..and antidepressants and 'mood stabalizers' don't bring much relief...and can often make things *worse*.
>
> Is it possible for someone to be in such a state of depressed anxious psychosis that *everything* makes me miserable? Geezzus...I just want some relief..please! Any special med combo or such? I've been grinding at this for 10 years. I just want to yell, cry, scream. This isn't just a few months or a couple of years..it is a decade!! If there is no hope...why even bother with carrying on...it's just pain. Any help...please.
>
> Thank you,
> JayHi Jay, I don't think I ever read where you have tried any Depakote. Also a low-dose combo of Depakote and Neurontin seemed to work well. Sometimes other meds you are taking are *triggering* the anger. One way I have found to gauge my general level of hostility/anxiety is how I feel driving. If my anxiety level is way up all the other cars (*not* the drivers) seem menacing. If my hostility level is way up all the other cars are trying to "get away" with something they don't deserve, or they are "cheating" in some way. Whenever I was tolerating Neurontin fairly well at higher doses I felt like all the other cars were "friendly" and "interesting". I guess I test drive my drugs! Sorry for the rambling..
Posted by jay on December 13, 2002, at 12:54:51
In reply to Re: Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please. » jay, posted by IsoM on December 13, 2002, at 2:36:46
Great suggestions..honestly thanks. Interesting that you mentioned Manerix, as it did exactly *the same* to me, and I found on one website (www.mentalhealth.com) that the med is suggested not to be used in people with anger and irritability.I am lucky in one major way..I have my family, and my Dad is going to visit my family doctor next Tuesday (as a cencerned family member), for a referal to one of the major psych centers, like the excellent Hamilton MacMaster Anxiety Disorders Clinic (http://www.macanxiety.com), Homewood Health (http://www.homewoodhealth.com)
Anyhow...yep I am lucky, as I am on the road to, hopefully, some more *complete* treatment, with hopefully a diagnosis (or two..or three..heh.) Funny you mention stimulants, as it is quite possible I have ADD. (I know this is a fad-ish thing...BUT...I was diagnosed with a developmental disorder in Grade 2 by a child psychiatrist, and there exists a 70 page report on this and me at my old grade school. This is from the 1970's..but should still be there.)
If I come across any good news about my treatment, I will pass it on!
Anyhow..thanks very much for the help. :-)Best wishes..
Jay
Posted by jay on December 13, 2002, at 12:57:15
In reply to Pet a cat. =), posted by utopizen on December 12, 2002, at 23:19:06
> Pet a cat. Always reminds me I'm okay and everything's fine after I get moody and have a temper.
>
> But not if you're a meanie to the cats. If so, avoid them like a plaque, because I will find all you meanies and do mean things back to you people, for all the mean things my cat suffered through before I adopted her. Watch out, meanies.Hey..thanks..I have a sweet little dog, who I bathe in love everyday, and yes it works wonders. I also love cats too, and I hope to someday have one yet again.
Take care..
Jay
Posted by jay on December 13, 2002, at 13:01:34
In reply to Re: Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please. » jay, posted by NikkiT2 on December 13, 2002, at 2:40:57
Thanks Nikki..and you know, I now highly doubt the Risperdal treatment is what I need. What I *do* need is an excellent assesment, a 'workup', and some treatment from a leading-edge hospital. I might need to do some hospital time also...but I am lucky as I may get all of this. I do hope you look after yourself too.
Peace..=) Jay
Posted by jay on December 13, 2002, at 13:05:22
In reply to Re: Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Ple, posted by Jefff on December 13, 2002, at 5:09:55
> Same exact thing here dude...
> A couple months ago I began researching new meds on the net (and found this message board) due to the fact that I was about to explode from rage, anger and anxiety (of course with life long depression). I discovered benzodiazepines, got prescribed 2mg Klonopin per day (or the generic Clonazepam... Ive tried both and didnt notice a difference in either) and my anger and severe anxiety is now basically gone. Its totally calmed me down... now that I look back to two months ago I can even better recognize how damn miserably angry I was and how much more even balanced/calm I am now. Im still working with the depression, but honestly I think its worse to feel constant rage and fury than it is to feel depressed (which is so hellish in its own hellish way).
> Sooo, perhaps you could try the Benzo's if you already havent.
> good luck,
> Jeff
> (BTW, to whoever cares, I own 16 cats and one chameleon and also hate people who are cruel to animals)Jeff...VERY cool indeed! I have responded very well to benzos in the past, and if warrented, I may end up on a good high dose benzo regiment. I've got some good help coming my way...yep I am lucky too! And yes...I *love* cats...and dogs too..and hope to add more to my life soon. But, how do you pay to feed them all?..hehee.
Peace...
Jay =)
Posted by jay on December 13, 2002, at 13:08:25
In reply to Re: Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please. » jay, posted by justyourlaugh on December 13, 2002, at 7:37:14
> jay
> very angry here too...
> i wish everyone would go away..
> i am starting to shout at strangers..
> taken to hospital in cuffs last weekend by thepolice;(
> i think i am emploding
> jylI am sorry you had to be forced to the hospital. :=( Where abouts do you live...and are there any good treatment programs around? If not..come and move to Canada..you can get 'em all free here. :) Honestly...just want to see you get THE best. What medications are you currently on..and what where you diagnosed with?
Jay =)
Posted by jay on December 13, 2002, at 13:11:52
In reply to Re: Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please. » jay, posted by wharfrat on December 13, 2002, at 8:56:05
> >
> > Right now..I am just on Risperdal. I am miserable, angry, and absolutely hate anybody who causes me *any* problems. This can be anybody..from my Mom to anybody on the street.
> >
> > My temper is just ready to crack..and antidepressants and 'mood stabalizers' don't bring much relief...and can often make things *worse*.
> >
> > Is it possible for someone to be in such a state of depressed anxious psychosis that *everything* makes me miserable? Geezzus...I just want some relief..please! Any special med combo or such? I've been grinding at this for 10 years. I just want to yell, cry, scream. This isn't just a few months or a couple of years..it is a decade!! If there is no hope...why even bother with carrying on...it's just pain. Any help...please.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Jay
>
> Jay,
> My doc put me on lexapro for depression & GAD (my 1st time on an AD) I had gotten to the point of being so angry, that every little thing would get under my skin. I've gotten a lot better with my anger, anxiety and depression. Although had a major set back on the hiway with an ass riding b***h. Just could'nt resist chasing her down and telling what a F****d up driver she is. That did'nt make my wife very happy but I felt better.
> But, I don't feel that way very often anymore. My kids are still trying readjust to me not screaming at them all the time. Hope you find something that helps you because I know it's a horrible existence.
> Good luck,
> Wharf
>
>Hi..thanx for the suggestion wharf. Yes, when anger is all consuming, it is just wretched. Just curious..was it your family doc or psychiatrist who put you on Lexapro?
Jay =)
Posted by jay on December 13, 2002, at 13:21:18
In reply to Re: Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please. » jay, posted by Ritch on December 13, 2002, at 9:53:13
> Hi Jay, I don't think I ever read where you have tried any Depakote. Also a low-dose combo of Depakote and Neurontin seemed to work well. Sometimes other meds you are taking are *triggering* the anger. One way I have found to gauge my general level of hostility/anxiety is how I feel driving. If my anxiety level is way up all the other cars (*not* the drivers) seem menacing. If my hostility level is way up all the other cars are trying to "get away" with something they don't deserve, or they are "cheating" in some way. Whenever I was tolerating Neurontin fairly well at higher doses I felt like all the other cars were "friendly" and "interesting". I guess I test drive my drugs! Sorry for the rambling..
Hey Ritch...no you aren't rambling...it's support MUCH appreciated! I was on Depakote (Or Epival here in Canada), and it worked ok with Effexor...but just horrible on it's own. It made me sleep and sleep and be miserable. Same with Neurontin, although I would still be open to exploration with both. I may need some tricky combo, and I have read using 2 mood stabalizers is actually one of the most effective, and current cutting edge treatments.I can tell if I am angry/irritable the second I wake up. My emotions have become so all-consuming, I swear I am surprised I don't spit fire! LOL!
Posted by justyourlaugh on December 13, 2002, at 14:27:30
In reply to Re: Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please. » justyourlaugh, posted by jay on December 13, 2002, at 13:08:25
hi jay-wow you have been busy posting.
i live in canada,
my pdoc is the head of the hospital(ontario)
he doesnt know what he is doing any more than i do.
i take wellbutrin,thyroid stuff?and seroquel.
he told me to "pop"a few seroquel into me if i feel like i am going off the deep end again??
i took 400 dollars to a bar-they cut me off
and kicked me out(pushed really)dont like to be touched.stuck at hospital for 2days-:(
jyl-thanks forletting me get it out hun.
Posted by jay on December 13, 2002, at 15:08:27
In reply to Re: Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please., posted by fuzzymind on December 13, 2002, at 1:59:50
> I have been very angry , defensive and irritable for going on 2 decades. Getting a cat 3 years ago has calmed me down a bit, but I am still enraged when someone disagrees with me ,and I relive events, vividly, over and over again with peole who not bullied me and used me as an emotional punching bag, but with people who simply disagreed with me, or strangers who I had encounters with. I am very insecure, have bare minimal self-esteem, and suicidal. SO much self-hatred, hatred of my parents who still deny I was suicidal or depressed in HS ieven though I attempted suicide on more thatn one occasion!!! YOu aren't alone , but I don't have any solutions.
Hi:
Have you, or you, in any type of therapy...and/or are you taking medications?
Thnx,
Jay
Posted by ItsHowdyDudytime on December 13, 2002, at 17:39:06
In reply to Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please., posted by jay on December 12, 2002, at 21:07:18
>
> Right now..I am just on Risperdal. I am miserable, angry, and absolutely hate anybody who causes me *any* problems. This can be anybody..from my Mom to anybody on the street.
>
> My temper is just ready to crack..and antidepressants and 'mood stabalizers' don't bring much relief...and can often make things *worse*.
>
> Is it possible for someone to be in such a state of depressed anxious psychosis that *everything* makes me miserable? Geezzus...I just want some relief..please! Any special med combo or such? I've been grinding at this for 10 years. I just want to yell, cry, scream. This isn't just a few months or a couple of years..it is a decade!! If there is no hope...why even bother with carrying on...it's just pain. Any help...please.
>
> Thank you,
> Jay
Here is my advice. I had "extreme anger" in the beginning months of my depression which was years ago. This was because my depression was steroid induced, from prednisone. Prednisone just set me off and changed my personality completely. Since then, my anger/irritability has gradually waned, now to the point where I no longer really feel all that irritable beyond a basic depression type irritability that mainly only shows up when im off antidepressants.First of all, anger has gotten a bad rap in psychiatry. Its the one emotion you cant have and get away with, psychiatrists dont like it because it means you are a "high risk-high liability" patient for them (high lawsuit risk). Many of them prefer to use atypical anti-psychotics for anger, even if you arent psychotic or manic, particularly in males who exhibit anger/irritability.
However the reality of the situation is that anger, even extreme, is a totally normal part of many forms of severe mental illness. Its just something you have to learn to live with, deal with and try to combat it with drugs the best you can. Generally, combatting the UNDERLYING major mental illness will dissipate anger/irritability. Whether it be severe male depression, bipolar manic depression or whatever, treating that underlying Axis I disorder with the appropriate class of meds willtend to get rid of most of that anger.
Male depression is notorious for severe anger and irritability and is a sign of low serotonin levels and being very unhappy and frustrated with one's life. Treatment in that case involves antidepressants.
In your case, where you claim antidepressants and even mood stabilizers worsen your anger, that is a bad sign and probably points to bipolar disorder or some form. Usually, antidepressants make people nicer, calmer, more relaxed. When they do the opposite,thats a very bad sign. You have diagnosis issues that need attending to.
Oddly, low testosterone levels in men can cause bad irritability and mood swings. Youd think it would be the opposite, that low testosterone levels would make men turn into a wuss, but it can be the opposite. Low testosterone can cause a man to become very grouchy and mean.
Another thing thats bad for anger is booze. Booze can make some people extremely mean and angry and if you drink much and your Pdoc knows it, you place yourself in a high liability risk. Cut out all booze, all street drugs to start with if you do any of that stuff.
If psychosis is truly the underlying cause of your "anger" then longterm treatment with anti-psychotic drugs will probably be in order. If you are unsure of your dx, some neuropsychological testing might be in order such as the Rorschach test, the TAT test, etc. Although oftentimes schizophrenics are very withdrawn socially and dont exhibit many emotions, good or bad.
I bet you have major diagnosis issues to figure out, just a hunch. Other good advice for you if you are male and have bad anger/irritability symptoms is to AVOID using female mental health professionals as much as possible, if at all avoid them totally. Female mental health professionals are much more sensitive to male anger/aggression/irritability, even if its not your fault and is just a symptom of your severe mental illness. Stick to male mental health workers, male psychiatrists, etc. They are less sensitive to these issues and tend to not make as big a deal out of it as females do.
Howdy Doody
Posted by Aadika on December 13, 2002, at 19:41:27
In reply to Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please., posted by jay on December 12, 2002, at 21:07:18
Just a brief reply, and I hope this helps, I have a very severe problem with anger, irritability, hostility, etc, etc, etc. But I've found that both Catapres (clonidine) and Inderal (propranolol) are wonderful at controlling these floodings of emotion. I've tried B-blockers other than Inderal and they just don't seem to work. Well, just my two cents. Good luck!
~ Aadika
Posted by highanxiety on December 13, 2002, at 19:48:44
In reply to Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please., posted by jay on December 12, 2002, at 21:07:18
Is Risperidal an anti-psychotic? The reason I am asking is that my father was an incredibly angry person (very bi-polar) and nothing worked with him (of course getting him to stay on anything was another issue) until someone prescribed haldol to him at the end of his life. Worked like magic. If the drug you are taking is NOT an anti-psychotic, have you tried one? If it is, then my suggestion might not be appropriate to your situation.
Posted by Aadika on December 13, 2002, at 19:50:51
In reply to Re: Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Ple, posted by highanxiety on December 13, 2002, at 19:48:44
Yes, Risperdal is an atypical anti-psychotic.
~ Aadika
Posted by ItsHowdyDudyTime on December 13, 2002, at 20:23:02
In reply to Re: Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Ple, posted by Aadika on December 13, 2002, at 19:50:51
> Yes, Risperdal is an atypical anti-psychotic.
>
> ~ AadikaTreatment of aggression is an "off label" use of Risperdal. In fact, all anti-psychotics are used "off label" to treat aggression without psychosis or mania. It has even been proposed by some extremist factions in society that prisons put prisoners on anti-psychotic drugs to make it easier to control prison populations, however this is illegal and is considered to be "cruel and unusual punishment" and thus is against the U.S. Constitution.
Using anti-psychotics, even in low dosages for treatment of aggression, hostility, irritability, etc. in the absence of frank psychosis or mania is an inappropriate use of neuroleptics. Its known as "behavioral control" in psychiatry, something psychiatry is famous for that goes back to the olden days when most mentally ill were institutionalized in large, abusive, state hospitals that resembled minimum security prisons. ECT (shock treatment) was also used for behavioral control at one time in a manner very similar to the way neuroleptics are currently used "off label." However ECT for behavioral control has been made illegal for a good thirty years now.
Its high time to make the practice of using neuroleptics for behavioral control illegal as well. Patients prescribed neuroleptic drugs should be required to read and sign informed consent forms, warning them of the potential movement disorder dangers of these drugs.
IMO, the only use for any neuroleptic medication should be to correct, control and manage thought disorders such as schizophrenia or schizo-affective disorder and in some cases psychotic mania. Thats what these drugs were developed for, not for "off label" uses of treating aggression.
Using drugs like Risperdal to treat schizophrenia is a perfectly acceptable and desireable course of action. Using Risperdal to control "aggression" however, is not OK and should be legislated against and psychiatrists who practice in this manner should be sued out of existence.
Howdy Doody
Posted by ItsHowdyDudyTime on December 13, 2002, at 20:29:08
In reply to Re: Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Ple, posted by ItsHowdyDudyTime on December 13, 2002, at 20:23:02
There is an actual psychiatric or medical term for the use of anti-psychotic drugs to control aggression in non psychotic populations. Its called "serogenics." I think thats the way its spelled at least. I read about it over on the American College of Neuropsychopharmacology website. Serogenics is basically nothing more than using neuroleptics for behavioral control in unruly or aggressive people, who do not have thought disorders or mania. Its something that a civilized, Western country shouldnt tolerate and it should be outlawed.
ECT for behavioral control was outlawed thirty years ago. Its time for serogenics (neuroleptics for aggression) to be outlawed as well. Its morally wrong, considering the potential movement disorder dangers these drugs pose.
Howdy Doody
Posted by snowden on December 13, 2002, at 20:36:22
In reply to Re: about having a cat... » jay, posted by IsoM on December 13, 2002, at 2:40:48
Oh Thank you for posting that!! I thought I was the only one...
Posted by fuzzymind on December 13, 2002, at 23:59:58
In reply to Re: Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please. » fuzzymind, posted by jay on December 13, 2002, at 15:08:27
> > I have been very angry , defensive and irritable for going on 2 decades. Getting a cat 3 years ago has calmed me down a bit, but I am still enraged when someone disagrees with me ,and I relive events, vividly, over and over again with peole who not bullied me and used me as an emotional punching bag, but with people who simply disagreed with me, or strangers who I had encounters with. I am very insecure, have bare minimal self-esteem, and suicidal. SO much self-hatred, hatred of my parents who still deny I was suicidal or depressed in HS ieven though I attempted suicide on more thatn one occasion!!! YOu aren't alone , but I don't have any solutions.
>
> Hi:
>
> Have you, or you, in any type of therapy...and/or are you taking medications?
>
> Thnx,
> Jay
>
>
Tried therapy and medications 6 years ago for 3 months. My shrink gave me an umtimatum to get better or she would stop treatment. I stopped and I totally lost it. Tried again with the same therapist beginning of 2001...no improvement...last saw her end of 2001. I beleive I was making a little progreess at the time i saw her 6 years ago, but the ultimatum she gave me freaked me out. I NEVER meet the right people
Posted by IsoM on December 14, 2002, at 0:52:08
In reply to Re: about having a cat... » IsoM, posted by snowden on December 13, 2002, at 20:36:22
I'm never mean to my cats when I'm down - I just ignore them. They're not used to that as they follow me from room to room like little kids. The join in whatever I do & cuddle when I sit down. But when down, my inactivity increases. They get lonely & bored, & and up sleeping much more or being naughty like fighting with each other or chewing on my plants. That's when I tend to yell at them. They act the same as little children do when no one pays attention to them either.
Posted by jay on December 14, 2002, at 1:35:38
In reply to Extreme Anger...anyone with sim feelings?..Please., posted by jay on December 12, 2002, at 21:07:18
From being p*ssed off to crying a river...and is it Lorazepam that exists at the end of that river?..heh...;-/
This morning I went and visited my best friend's grave, and brought some fresh flowers for him.. He died (either killed himself or accidental gunshot...not knowing has been a big part of my pain) in 1989 at 19 years of age...and the tears started, and damn they would not stop. Then I got onto thinking of my ex-girlfriend's miscarrage, and how I lost out on becoming a Dad, and how that was a *loss*...and just more of how I am a failure..and everything was LOSS LOSS loss...gone..goodbye...and by then I was crying while driving around the city. Gawwddamn it was *bad*...and it didn't stop until I got home and my Dad gave me a couple of lorazapam, which really helped soothe me...and he let me talk...and I talked to my Mom...My parents are very intelligent, articulate people, and we got into some really deep philosophical 'meandering', I call it. You know..being a knowledgeable, educated and 'person of considerable depth' REALLY f'ing sucks when you are depressed! Dante's Hell revisited...
By early afternoon I was a bit better. Gezzus..the ones you love are truly the ones who can make you feel better.I am a guy who is *not* afraid to cry in front of people..and I do it a lot...but when it is *non-stop*...I know I am in a *deep* depression. At heart, beyond the anger, I am a caring, sensitive, loving guy. Maybe it's just this world doesn't cherish those values in men...but f*** them, bunch of insensitive, Nazi idiots..(hey..I didn't SAY the 'bad' word..heh (sorry...some 'leftover' anger mixed in..heehe)
Ok...so I took Lorazepam and lived happily ever after...well, dammm, maybe not...but maybe I am on the right road. The Road...ohhhh boy..
Posted by IsoM on December 14, 2002, at 1:45:08
In reply to Re: about having a cat... » snowden, posted by IsoM on December 14, 2002, at 0:52:08
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