![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DM Olsen on June 24, 2003, at 14:34:01
If I could find this in archives I wouldn't post it but hours of searching hasn't turned up the info I seek...so--after 10 yrs of treatment resistant cocktails I am now taking Wellbutrin 200 mg, provigil 100 mg, lexapro 20 mg and doxepin (actually for headaches 10 mg) and I have much less irritability, better sleep, but it's only when I use someone elses Xanax that I experience a few hours of, well, contentment!
Having a benzo-resistant psychiatrist, whom I bless as the one who started the provigil, which I love in theory (and am pretty sure in practice-but it's a bit early to tell). I'm looking for anything that acts the same as benzos but isn't, if you know what I mean. So, what brain chemicals does the xanax rope in and is there any other way to approach the effect with anything else?
BTW, I did take Klonopin for 5 years with different drug combinations, never developed a tolerance but also had no mood elevation with it, although who knows if it was the Klonopin or the other stuff. aaarrrggghhhhh...
Thank you to anyone who can keep all this kind of info in their head and attempts to respond!
Posted by BrittPark on June 24, 2003, at 16:52:52
In reply to The Age Old Benzo Question, posted by DM Olsen on June 24, 2003, at 14:34:01
I'm sorry you've got a slightly defective doctor. Benzos, as has been shown time and again, are probably the most effective and safe drugs (for their indications) of all psychotropic medications. I'd seriously consider finding another psychiatrist. Any psychiatrist who refuses to use an effective medication because of some principal is not giving the best care possible to her patient. Benzos act primarily to potentiate GABA receptors, which makes them anxiolytic, muscle relaxing, and anti-seizure drugs. There is some clinical evidence and quite a lot of anecdotal evidence that Xanax acts as a mild AD. This is less often found for Klonopin.
The only other drugs I know that act on the same receptor system are barbiturates which are direct GABA receptor agonists and thus much more dangerous than benzos, in overdose. A doctor who doesn't like to prescribe benzos, is even less likely to prescribe barbiturates.
If you haven't already, I'd consider asking your psychiatrist why she/he is opposed to the use of Xanax, in the face of your evidence that it actually works for you.
Feel Better,Britt
Posted by Caleb462 on June 24, 2003, at 22:29:49
In reply to The Age Old Benzo Question, posted by DM Olsen on June 24, 2003, at 14:34:01
> If I could find this in archives I wouldn't post it but hours of searching hasn't turned up the info I seek...so--after 10 yrs of treatment resistant cocktails I am now taking Wellbutrin 200 mg, provigil 100 mg, lexapro 20 mg and doxepin (actually for headaches 10 mg) and I have much less irritability, better sleep, but it's only when I use someone elses Xanax that I experience a few hours of, well, contentment!
>
> Having a benzo-resistant psychiatrist, whom I bless as the one who started the provigil, which I love in theory (and am pretty sure in practice-but it's a bit early to tell). I'm looking for anything that acts the same as benzos but isn't, if you know what I mean. So, what brain chemicals does the xanax rope in and is there any other way to approach the effect with anything else?
>
> BTW, I did take Klonopin for 5 years with different drug combinations, never developed a tolerance but also had no mood elevation with it, although who knows if it was the Klonopin or the other stuff. aaarrrggghhhhh...
>
> Thank you to anyone who can keep all this kind of info in their head and attempts to respond!Try niacinamide - a form of vitamin B3. It is an endogenous ligand for the BZ receptors. There have been other endogenous ligands discovered I believe, but niacinamide is probably the only one available commercially.
Posted by Viridis on June 24, 2003, at 22:32:55
In reply to The Age Old Benzo Question, posted by DM Olsen on June 24, 2003, at 14:34:01
I'll just echo BrittPark -- benzos are safe, effective and have a long track record, so any pdoc who avoids them unconditionally is uniformed, to say the least.
Recently, my pdoc gave me some Gabitril (tiagabine) to try -- it's supposed to act on the same receptors and he says some of his colleagues have had good success with it for anxiety patients. He asked for my input (but continues to prescribe Klonopin and Xanax, and told me to use it cautiously). So you might ask for a sample -- they're readily available. Reactions here have been very mixed, and a lot of people have reported major side effects. I haven't tried it yet, but will.
Then there's Neurontin -- it had a wonderful relaxing effect for me the first couple of times I took it, then nothing. But the effects seem to last for some people, so it might be worth a try. It's very benign and safe, and most doctors will prescribe it.
Really, though, it sounds like you need benzos and a doctor who's willing to prescribe them.
BTW -- my pdoc says that asking for Xanax by name is asking for trouble. He says be vague, mention alprazolam, and let the doc take it from there. Apparently, Xanax has enough of a reputation for abuse that asking for it directly is often viewed as "drug-seeking behavior". He sees this as silly in most cases, but does acknowledge that some people abuse it, and says he carefully monitors patients to whom he prescribes it.
Posted by McPac on June 25, 2003, at 22:22:46
In reply to The Age Old Benzo Question, posted by DM Olsen on June 24, 2003, at 14:34:01
Here is some info that I saved that ANOTHER poster here posted some time ago, "From my understanding, only very tiny amounts of GABA from the capsules actually cross the blood/brain barrier. I've tried this before, and found the supplement to be a total bust. If you want to supplement GABA, use picamilon. It is essentially GABA bonded to niacin at a molecular level--the niacin allows the GABA to cross the B/B barrier, and thus the "drug" can reach the place it's supposed to. I take it every day and wouldn't do without it. Most people feel effects from the very first dose".
Posted by Viridis on June 28, 2003, at 22:23:25
In reply to Picamilon, Re: The Age Old Benzo Question, posted by McPac on June 25, 2003, at 22:22:46
Picamilon is OK, but in my experience it doesn't compare to real benzos. It is mildly relaxing though.
Posted by McPac on June 29, 2003, at 0:35:35
In reply to Re: Picamilon, Re: The Age Old Benzo Question » McPac, posted by Viridis on June 28, 2003, at 22:23:25
Hi V......never tried the Picamilon myself.....hey, does ANYTHING natural even come close to a benzo for you? Thanks!
Posted by Viridis on June 29, 2003, at 17:21:02
In reply to V,Re: Picamilon, Re: The Age Old Benzo Question, posted by McPac on June 29, 2003, at 0:35:35
Hi McPac,
Benzos seem to be unique; I've tried various "natural" remedies for anxiety, and the ones that are legal never seem to have quite the same mellowing effects without side effects. I got some relief from Kava (only high-strength root preparations), but it's pretty disgusting to drink such concoctions, and there are concerns about liver damage etc. Picamilon (which is sort of natural, I guess) is OK, as I mentioned, but isn't the same for me. Valerian makes me a bit sleepy, but that's it. Things like chamomile, passionflower, etc. don't seem to do much. GABA alone didn't work (very little crosses the blood-brain barrier). Alcohol has some positive effects, but a lot of obvious negatives too, and I don't find it compares to benzos nor would I want to use it regularly for anxiety relief. I do find L-theanine (an amino acid found in tea) somewhat helpful, but again, not comparable to a benzo.
Among meds, the closest I've experienced is Neurontin, the first couple of times I took it. Now it does nothing. Actually, I'm finding Strattera (which I just started) quite relaxing, but then I'm taking Klonopin along with it. The standard ADs that are supposed to be anxiolytic (SSRIs etc.) I've tried have been awful for me, although I haven't tried them all.
So, benzos seem to be unique, for me at least.
Posted by buddhi on December 10, 2003, at 3:01:50
In reply to Picamilon, Re: The Age Old Benzo Question, posted by McPac on June 25, 2003, at 22:22:46
> Here is some info that I saved that ANOTHER poster here posted some time ago, "From my understanding, only very tiny amounts of GABA from the capsules actually cross the blood/brain barrier. I've tried this before, and found the supplement to be a total bust. If you want to supplement GABA, use picamilon. It is essentially GABA bonded to niacin at a molecular level--the niacin allows the GABA to cross the B/B barrier, and thus the "drug" can reach the place it's supposed to. I take it every day and wouldn't do without it. Most people feel effects from the very first dose".
>
please I need your help!!! Where do you get your picamilin from ???Usa or overseas??? specifically !!I'm trying to find some Thanks ame
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2003, at 7:41:10
In reply to Re: Picamilon, Re: The Age Old Benzo Question, posted by buddhi on December 10, 2003, at 3:01:50
> please I need your help!!! Where do you get your picamilin from ???
I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding alternative treatments to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031204/msgs/288287.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.