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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 20:35:20
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help!, posted by theo on November 12, 2003, at 20:22:08
> Are you going to move up to the therapeutic dose of 300mg Wellbutrin XL?
I don't know (if you are responding to me) the doc wants me to stay low and i don't know if I can handle higher doses maybe my expectations in life are just too high? I cnnot tell anymore. I will know more on Fri as to titration and additions
Posted by Cybele on November 12, 2003, at 21:08:42
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help!, posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 20:35:20
Stavros, are you able to exercise at all? I am 42 and have been hit by depressions (dysthymia/bipolar spectrum) since I was 13. I've been able to deal with most of my major depressions by exercising 5-6x/week (aerobic exercise for 45-60 min.). This time I have been so drowsy since starting WB-SR that I have not been able to exercise, and my hope is that if I cut back on the WB I won't feel so punk and can get back to the gym. It really works for me. Kali tihi!
Posted by Cybele on November 12, 2003, at 21:10:37
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help! » Cybele, posted by femlite on November 12, 2003, at 20:29:45
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 21:19:31
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help! » Stavros, posted by Cybele on November 12, 2003, at 21:08:42
Cybele,
I am 35 yrs old and able to exercise however my mind always feels like it's at work and that irritates me. Like while I am here my mind is concentrating on something totally different. I sort of have dysthmia but more anxiety which leads to depression. I quit work so I could get back to a routine working out, helping at church but no such luck. I traveled all the time for my work and it would just drive me crazy to have to do both work and deal with the other place my mind is? I have never experienced any drowsy with Well XL in fact the opposite. I am going crazy. . . again. Thans for the advice you cannot go wrong working out in any of these issues
> Stavros, are you able to exercise at all? I am 42 and have been hit by depressions (dysthymia/bipolar spectrum) since I was 13. I've been able to deal with most of my major depressions by exercising 5-6x/week (aerobic exercise for 45-60 min.). This time I have been so drowsy since starting WB-SR that I have not been able to exercise, and my hope is that if I cut back on the WB I won't feel so punk and can get back to the gym. It really works for me. Kali tihi!
>
Posted by Cybele on November 13, 2003, at 9:27:14
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help!, posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 21:19:31
> I am 35 yrs old and able to exercise however my mind always feels like it's at work and that irritates me. Like while I am here my mind is concentrating on something totally different. I sort of have dysthmia but more anxiety which leads to depression. I quit work so I could get back to a routine working out, helping at church but no such luck. I traveled all the time for my work and it would just drive me crazy to have to do both work and deal with the other place my mind is? I have never experienced any drowsy with Well XL in fact the opposite. I am going crazy. . . again. Thans for the advice you cannot go wrong working out in any of these issues
> >
I have found that for exercise "to work" as an antidepressant and (I believe) to help with anxiety, you need to do it long enough and frequently enough. A little bit here and there will not work. At first you will feel lows on your days off, but once you have built up a base of endorphins in your body they will stay high on your days off and you can even cut back a little once you are no longer depressed (e.g., 30-40 minutes for 3-4 days a week).The minimum exercise I have found to work as an antidepressant is to get into the cardio zone (70-85% of maximum) with your heart rate and stay there for 40-45 minutes and do this 5 or more times a week. My current favorite exercise is a Precor Elliptical which I do on a cross-training program for 45 minutes. I also like spinning classes, but my current club does not offer 60 minute classes. Running mixed with power walking are the absolutely best, if your knees can take it. This last summer, as I was becoming depressed, I was doing the elliptical trainer 2-3 times a week for 30 minutes, and that was not enough to have any sort of AD effect.
I have found that even being at the low end of your cardio zone (70% of maximum) is OK, but you must stay there for 45 minutes. I suspect you can even go a bit lower than 70%, but "leisurely walking" is definitely not enough of a workout to make a difference. I used to ride a Lifecycle on manual level 1 and read a book or watch TV (Quincy, M.E. reruns, LOL) for an hour. Doing that 5 days a week for one month pulled me out of a bad depression. Then I started riding outdoors and even completed a century (100 miles) with a local bike club. I always got back into trouble when I thought I didn't need the exercise and worked at a desk job for a few months.
I see it this way. We humans evolved being very active all day, not sitting in cubes under fluorescent lights in front of computers. Our bodies were designed to be active. This is why we are so much depression now because of the rise of the high tech industries, with more people sitting at desks all day. Our bodies evolved to be really good at hunting, gathering, and making everything we needed.
HTH!
Posted by Flipsactown on November 13, 2003, at 9:56:24
In reply to Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help!, posted by Cybele on November 12, 2003, at 7:29:29
Hello Cybele,
From my own personal experience, it appears that you now have what the medical field term as "treatment resistant depression." If you have tried all the other AD's to no avail, then go to this link, http://www.bipolarworld.net/Phelps/ph_2003/ph1016.htm
I have been on AD's for 12 years now and all the other AD's either pooped out or was no longer effective.
That link, talks about taking lamictal for this condition. I am beginning to sound like an advertisement for lamictal. It's just because from my own personal experience, in only 6 or 7 weeks, I got dramatic results from lamictal. I have been on lamictal with prozac and remeron for only 7 weeks and I am feeling like my old self. Eventually, I want to be on lamictal only.
Hope this helps you.
Flipsactown
> I've been on it for 5 weeks and am feeling no better, and in fact continue to feel worse. I never had any increased energy or even any insomnia. I am sleepy most of the day, and am asleep as soon as my head hits the pillow. I seem to dream all night long as I am frequently wakened from my dreams throughout the night by my husband's snoring, a child needing something, or by my own extremely active dreams. I know Wellbutrin increases REM sleep, but it seems like that is all I am having. I so want to stop taking these as I felt better before I went on them, even if I was depressed. Wellbutrin worked great for me 12 years ago, but not this time. If I could get a proper night's sleep then I could exercise every day, and I know that would do the trick with my depression. I have a new doctor, and my doctor in my old town was very accessible and knew me well. My new doctor is difficult to contact and does not know me or trust that I know what I am talking about yet.
>
> I really need input here!
Posted by Cybele on November 13, 2003, at 10:08:48
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help! » Cybele, posted by Flipsactown on November 13, 2003, at 9:56:24
> Hello Cybele,
>
> From my own personal experience, it appears that you now have what the medical field term as "treatment resistant depression." If you have tried all the other AD's to no avail, then go to this link, http://www.bipolarworld.net/Phelps/ph_2003/ph1016.htm
>
> I have been on AD's for 12 years now and all the other AD's either pooped out or was no longer effective.
>
> That link, talks about taking lamictal for this condition. I am beginning to sound like an advertisement for lamictal. It's just because from my own personal experience, in only 6 or 7 weeks, I got dramatic results from lamictal. I have been on lamictal with prozac and remeron for only 7 weeks and I am feeling like my old self. Eventually, I want to be on lamictal only.
>
> Hope this helps you.
>
Thanks, Flipsactown. I tend to agree with you. Funnily enough I suggested a slow ramp-up of Lamictal to my PCP when I saw her last week, and she told me she did not feel she was qualified to prescribe that (fair enough) and gave me a referral to a PDOC, which I promptly lost. When I find that referral I will make an appt. with a PDOC to discuss Lamictal. For now I am just taking one 150mg WB-SR in the a.m. which will hopefully see an improvement in the quality of my sleep so I can get back into regular exercise.
Posted by Cybele on November 19, 2003, at 12:53:38
In reply to Should I go off Wellbutrin? Help!, posted by Cybele on November 12, 2003, at 7:29:29
OK, after 5 weeks on WB-SR (2x day) and feeling increasingly sleepy and forgetful, I went down to one a day in the morning. Within 3 days I was starting to feel better and now, a week later, I feel like I did before I went on WB. My sleepiness is apparently a very unusual side-effect, and I am sure it was a result of too much REM sleep. I was sleeping a good 10-12 hours a day, and still felt sleepy all the time. (I'd go to sleep at the same time as my 6-year old and wake when he did, plus I took an afternoon nap.) Every night I was asleep as soon as my head hit the pillow, although I was frequently wakened during the night by things like husband snoring, child getting in bed with us, etc. Every time I woke up I was in the middle of a vivid dream. Every time I went easily back to sleep. My forgetfulness was unlike anything I have ever experienced. I will suffer the consequences of this for years as I have no idea where I put things when I picked the house up during that time. I also immediately forgot appointments or arrangements I made with people unless I wrote them down right away.
My PCP agreed that going down to one a day was a good thing to do and commented how much better I seemed today than I did when I visited her 4 weeks into WB-SR. She gave me a prescription for 25mg of Topomax to take for a month on top of the one WB-SR 150 in the morning. (After reading the threads on Topomax here, however, I am not sure I want to try it.) I see her again in a month to review the meds, and will also be making an appt with a PDOC whenever I can get in to see one. This might take a couple months.
There must be some clinical lingo for the improvements patients see in their conditions when they go off the wrong medicine, or the wrong dose of medicine. If not, it might be time to coin a word to describe it :)
Cheers,
Cybele
Posted by femlite on November 19, 2003, at 20:59:47
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? FOLLOW UP, posted by Cybele on November 19, 2003, at 12:53:38
Is Wellbutrin XL available to you?
I feel it works differently, somehow better.
You take one pill a day.
It comes in 150mg if you need a lower dose. It may come in something lower, havent checked
let us know how its going
warmest regards
Posted by theo on November 19, 2003, at 21:29:28
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? FOLLOW UP » Cybele, posted by femlite on November 19, 2003, at 20:59:47
I'm currently taking Well XL 150mg and thinking about going to 300mg, doc said go for it. What dose are you taking??
Posted by femlite on November 19, 2003, at 23:44:01
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? FOLLOW UP » femlite, posted by theo on November 19, 2003, at 21:29:28
I was at 300xl, but my current pdoc has cut me back because he thinks Im cycling moods , maybe, because of it. He wanted me to go to 200 mg sr. and taper down in aweek to 150 xl. I could tell the difference and just went straight to the 150mg xl. It seems smoother.
Posted by Stavros on November 19, 2003, at 23:52:24
In reply to WB XL seems smoother to me at any dose » theo, posted by femlite on November 19, 2003, at 23:44:01
Posted by zenhussy on November 20, 2003, at 9:48:11
In reply to Re: WB XL seems smoother to me at any dose (nm) » femlite, posted by Stavros on November 19, 2003, at 23:52:24
Posted by Cybele on November 21, 2003, at 9:13:27
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? FOLLOW UP » Cybele, posted by femlite on November 19, 2003, at 20:59:47
> Is Wellbutrin XL available to you?
> I feel it works differently, somehow better.
> You take one pill a day.
> It comes in 150mg if you need a lower dose. It may come in something lower, havent checked
> let us know how its going
> warmest regardsI get the impression that having it metabolize during the night--i.e., sleeping--hours is what was making me have too much REM sleep and was making me sleepy during the day. I have now been on one WB-SR 150 in the morning for 9 days, and my sleep is fine. However, starting yesterday, I am now back to feeling "hungry" all day long. When I was taking two WB-SR a day, even though I was sleepy all the time, I was only hungry around meal times and I had an easy time staying on my eating plan (Weight Watchers). I *loved* not thinking about food all the time.
Last night I took my first Topomax. My PCP put me on 25mg a day for 4 weeks, then I go back to see her. I asked her to put me on Lamictal (very slow ramp up), but she had no experience prescribing that and did not feel comfortable prescribing it for me. Hence the Topomax. Will keep you all informed of how this goes.
Cheers,
Cybele
Posted by Cybele on November 21, 2003, at 9:14:39
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? FOLLOW UP » femlite, posted by theo on November 19, 2003, at 21:29:28
> I'm currently taking Well XL 150mg and thinking about going to 300mg, doc said go for it. What dose are you taking??
I was on WB-SR 150mg twice a day. Now I am just taking one, in the morning.
Posted by theo on November 21, 2003, at 13:37:20
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? FOLLOW UP » theo, posted by Cybele on November 21, 2003, at 9:14:39
One 150 XL or 150 SR?
Posted by theo on November 21, 2003, at 13:45:33
In reply to WB XL seems smoother to me at any dose » theo, posted by femlite on November 19, 2003, at 23:44:01
I was thinking about moving up to 300mg XL from 150mg XL. Now that you've lowered your dose what do you think, is 150mg doing anything? Did 300mg make you feel any better at that dose?
Posted by Cybele on November 21, 2003, at 14:31:17
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? FOLLOW UP » Cybele, posted by theo on November 21, 2003, at 13:37:20
Posted by femlite on November 21, 2003, at 21:54:59
In reply to Re: WB XL seems smoother to me at any dose » femlite, posted by theo on November 21, 2003, at 13:45:33
Hi Theo
It appears my last answer to you did not make it.
Im BP II and my new Pdoc thinks the WB is causing me to cycle and have anxiety. I was at 300xl when I started seeing himIm back to 150mg xl my energy seems stabel, but Im still cycling. We are trying to add a mood stabilzer and its been slow going.
Hope that helps
Posted by John2222 on November 21, 2003, at 21:57:01
In reply to 1 SR (nm) » theo, posted by Cybele on November 21, 2003, at 14:31:17
Anyone here with experience in switching from Effexor XR to Wellbutrin XL?
After tapering off Effexor XR (now taking 1/2 of 37.5 capsule) per day, I am going to start on WB XL 150 Monday.
I really like Effexor for depression/anxiety but I was really sleepy during the day. ... of course I didn't worry about anything! hah, so guess it really did relieve that anxiety.
Dr. suggested that Wellbutrin XL might work almost as well but without the tired feelings.
Posted by Cybele on November 22, 2003, at 10:28:04
In reply to Re: Should I go off Wellbutrin? FOLLOW UP » femlite, posted by Cybele on November 21, 2003, at 9:13:27
Well... After 2 days on Topamax (25 mg) plus my one WB-SR 150mg I am ready to stop the Topamax. I am extremely irritable and even got into an argument with the desk clerk at my gym (because he was a big stupid idiot! LOL) and I tried to pick a totally unnecessary fight with my husband. (Fortunately, he didn't take the bait.) I have also been yelling at my kids. This is *so* totally unlike me. I hate hate hate this.
I will ask my PCP next week if we can try to titrate the WB back up to a level which will not mess up my REM sleep. I am thinking one WB-SR 150 at 6:30 am and one WB-SR 100 at 1:00 pm? THE WB seemed to finally be helping a bit with my concentration problem... I think. Oh, hell. I don't know.
Can't get an appt. with a PDOC until February. Must exercise every day. Must exercise every day. Must exercise every day.
Posted by theo on November 22, 2003, at 10:34:57
In reply to It depends on why your taking it » theo, posted by femlite on November 21, 2003, at 21:54:59
I'm currently taking a low dose, 300mg of Neurontin at bedtime. I'm going to ask my doc about Lamictal because of single dosing and longer acting. Neurontin worked good for a few days and then nothing and the dose can be anywhere from 300mg to 1600mg up to 3 times a day, to clumsy. Let me know what you try and if it works for you. I know people react differently but input sure helps.
Posted by femlite on November 23, 2003, at 22:49:02
In reply to Re: It depends on why your taking it » femlite, posted by theo on November 22, 2003, at 10:34:57
Theo
I missed why your Taking 300mg wellbutrin.
You asked how well 150 was doing,no?
If i misunderstood never mind
Posted by theo on November 24, 2003, at 8:08:06
In reply to Re: It depends on why your taking it » theo, posted by femlite on November 23, 2003, at 22:49:02
I had been taking 150mg for about 6-8 weeks and was wondering since 300mg is the "theraputic dose" if I would feel better than at 150mg. One of those "won't know till I try things." Anyway I was just wondering, besides what your pdoc suggested, now that you are at 150mg would you ever go back to 300mg or is 150mg adequate for you?
Posted by Waterlily on November 24, 2003, at 19:01:17
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin...switching from Effexor to WB?, posted by John2222 on November 21, 2003, at 21:57:01
> Anyone here with experience in switching from Effexor XR to Wellbutrin XL?
>
> After tapering off Effexor XR (now taking 1/2 of 37.5 capsule) per day, I am going to start on WB XL 150 Monday.
>
> I really like Effexor for depression/anxiety but I was really sleepy during the day. ... of course I didn't worry about anything! hah, so guess it really did relieve that anxiety.
>
> Dr. suggested that Wellbutrin XL might work almost as well but without the tired feelings.I don't know about this XL part of Wellbutrin, but I've been on Wellbutrin SR 150 mg twice a day for seven years. Maybe the XL makes a difference in how it affects anxiety. I'm continually looking for something to add to it to reduce anxiety. I've tried imipramine, Paxil, Prozac, Serzone, Effexor, and now am trying Luvox. Effexor was a great med except that it gave me insomnia so I was tired all the time. Too bad, because I really liked the calming effect it had. So far the Luvox has increased my anxiety, but I'm still breaking it in. It's been a torturous week and a half so far, but I think it's getting better.
This is the end of the thread.
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