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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ace on February 27, 2004, at 21:33:59
Has anyone noticed that drinking coffee can have an antidepressant effect- 3 cups or more per/ day...
One would think it could be used as an augmentative agent...
hmmmm....my brain never stops ticking!
Ace.
Posted by zeugma on February 27, 2004, at 21:45:04
In reply to COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants????, posted by ace on February 27, 2004, at 21:33:59
I've been self medicating with caffeine for years.
I actually find caffeine more physically stimulating than any antidepressant I've ever taken. That's why it works well as an augment. It keeps my body awake, while the AD's wake up my mind.
A study was done in which it was found that people who drank two or more cups of coffee in the morning had a lower suicide rate than others. It also confers anti-Parkinson's disease benefits.
Posted by Sad Panda on February 28, 2004, at 0:37:31
In reply to COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants????, posted by ace on February 27, 2004, at 21:33:59
> Has anyone noticed that drinking coffee can have an antidepressant effect- 3 cups or more per/ day...
>
> One would think it could be used as an augmentative agent...
>
> hmmmm....my brain never stops ticking!
>
> Ace.
>
>Ain't working for me! :) I drink 3 or 4 cups a day + about 4 litres of Pepsi Max.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Sooshi on February 28, 2004, at 10:36:01
In reply to COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants????, posted by ace on February 27, 2004, at 21:33:59
Definately works for me! I only have 2 cups/day, but it really makes a difference in my MOOD, not just my energy level.
Posted by hawkeye on February 28, 2004, at 13:40:39
In reply to COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants????, posted by ace on February 27, 2004, at 21:33:59
Coffee Won't Grind You Down: May Reduce Risk of Suicide, Study Concludes
By William J. Cromie
Gazette Staff
Go ahead and have that second cup of coffee, even a third or fourth cup. You may be protecting yourself against depression and suicide.
Women who drink two, three, or more cups of coffee a day are less likely to commit suicide than non-coffee drinkers, according to a Medical School study of 86,626 nurses. That rather startling conclusion comes less than a month after another study of the same women excluded coffee as a cause of heart disease.
These results apply equally to men, other research has found. For example, a check of 120,000 people in northern California showed substantially the same lowering of suicide risk for two, three, even six or more daily cups of coffee for both sexes.
"You always hear about coffee and caffeine being bad for your health," notes Ichiro Kawachi, assistant professor of medicine. "Our studies have found no basis for implicating coffee in any serious long-term health effects."
More here at: http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/1996/03.14/CoffeeWontGrind.html
Posted by hawkeye on February 28, 2004, at 13:46:25
In reply to COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants????, posted by ace on February 27, 2004, at 21:33:59
"Many of the day-to-day benefits we receive from caffeine stem from its effects on neurotransmitters, the chemicals that regulate communication between nerve cells. Caffeine boosts the effects of the neurotransmitters dopamine and serotonin, which improve mood. It also boosts levels of acetylcholine, a neurotransmitter that improves short-term memory."
http://www.bottomlinesecrets.com/blpnet/article.html?article_id=33799
Posted by Jaynee on February 28, 2004, at 17:42:47
In reply to Re: COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants????, posted by hawkeye on February 28, 2004, at 13:46:25
Posted by Jaynee on February 28, 2004, at 17:57:46
In reply to COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants????, posted by ace on February 27, 2004, at 21:33:59
Posted by Ilene on February 28, 2004, at 18:03:45
In reply to COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants????, posted by ace on February 27, 2004, at 21:33:59
> Has anyone noticed that drinking coffee can have an antidepressant effect- 3 cups or more per/ day...
>
> One would think it could be used as an augmentative agent...
>
> hmmmm....my brain never stops ticking!
>
> Ace.Caffeine used to give me a bit of a boost, but several months ago it suddenly made me feel *awful*. I've been gradually increasing my coffee:decaf ratio, and I'm finding the slight AD effect is returning. Sometimes works best with Klonopin.
As I said, the AD effect is slight.
I.
Posted by Janelle on February 28, 2004, at 22:37:11
In reply to COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants????, posted by ace on February 27, 2004, at 21:33:59
Posted by Mariposa on February 29, 2004, at 11:36:12
In reply to COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants????, posted by ace on February 27, 2004, at 21:33:59
JAVA JUNKIE here - drink 4 - 6 large cups a day, sometimes more! I find it very helpful with mood enhancement, energy boost. Have recently given up soda and switched to tea also.
KOFE RULES!!!~~~8|8
Posted by nicky847 on March 1, 2004, at 10:09:11
In reply to Re: COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants????, posted by Mariposa on February 29, 2004, at 11:36:12
WORD on the coffee augmenting the A/D's...I actually cut out coffee when I started Lexapro b/c I thought they would bring on panic attacks..however my therapist advised me to begin having a cup in the morning..and it helps so much..
> JAVA JUNKIE here - drink 4 - 6 large cups a day, sometimes more! I find it very helpful with mood enhancement, energy boost. Have recently given up soda and switched to tea also.
>
> KOFE RULES!!!~~~8|8
Posted by Stryker88 on March 1, 2004, at 17:32:52
In reply to Re: COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants????, posted by nicky847 on March 1, 2004, at 10:09:11
I am also a Java Addict, I started drinking the Folgers instant tea bag coffee, it actually tastes pretty good and is less in caffeine I think. My other problem is I also drink alot of energy drinks i.e. Rockstar, Monster, No Fear etc which also contain alot of caffiene, then mid day I have a can of soda, then later have another cup of cofee maybe two. After each time I flush alot of water into my system hoping it will help regulate my body, but dont know if that actually does anything. My concern is that a pharmacist told me that Antidepressants can cause weird food cravings, i.e, sugar and I can see that with me, as I never drank as much soda as I do now that I am on Effex.
Posted by Mariposa on March 1, 2004, at 18:14:08
In reply to Re: COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants????, posted by Stryker88 on March 1, 2004, at 17:32:52
I have terrible cravings for carbs, chocolate and Chex Mix, and ceral w/o milk....~~~8|8
Posted by LynneDa on March 1, 2004, at 18:26:38
In reply to Re: COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants???? » ace, posted by zeugma on February 27, 2004, at 21:45:04
I LOVE COFFEE! I'm so glad to hear the positive benefits of it from those of you who posted. Normally all we hear is how bad it is for your body (& I'm sure there's some merit to that too). It just makes me feel so much more alert and present in the world, I make better decisions and can interact with people on a higher level - just one cup in the a.m. and maybe a caffeinated soda at lunch.
But, I'm afraid that it masks my depression/anxiety so I won't know if I'm still depressed or if the Lexapro is working, so I've been trying to cut back.
What do you all think? (Someone please tell me not to worry about this and just keep drinking my one cup a day - LOL!)
~ Lynne
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I've been self medicating with caffeine for years.
>
> I actually find caffeine more physically stimulating than any antidepressant I've ever taken. That's why it works well as an augment. It keeps my body awake, while the AD's wake up my mind.
>
> A study was done in which it was found that people who drank two or more cups of coffee in the morning had a lower suicide rate than others. It also confers anti-Parkinson's disease benefits.
Posted by green hornet on March 2, 2004, at 12:51:25
In reply to Re: COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants????, posted by LynneDa on March 1, 2004, at 18:26:38
I agree about the coffee -- works for me. But somewhere I heard that you should not use caffeine with dopamine reuptake inhibitors, that it cuts back or erases their effect. (ie Ritalin, Wellbutrin etc.) Anyone ever heard about this?
Lets not extol the virtues of caffine too much or some jackass will make it a controlled substance -- god forbid we should be "well"!!!
green hornet
Posted by nicky847 on March 2, 2004, at 14:06:00
In reply to Re: COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants????, posted by green hornet on March 2, 2004, at 12:51:25
Hornet-
yeah no doubt i can just see it now where we have to pay 60 bucks for a can of folgers at your pharmacy :p..
> I agree about the coffee -- works for me. But somewhere I heard that you should not use caffeine with dopamine reuptake inhibitors, that it cuts back or erases their effect. (ie Ritalin, Wellbutrin etc.) Anyone ever heard about this?
> Lets not extol the virtues of caffine too much or some jackass will make it a controlled substance -- god forbid we should be "well"!!!
> green hornet
Posted by KathrynLex on March 2, 2004, at 15:43:01
In reply to Re: COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants????, posted by LynneDa on March 1, 2004, at 18:26:38
Hi Lynne,
I've been on Lexapro for about 2 1/2 months for depression/anxiety. A few weeks ago I started drinking coffee again and it hasn't had a huge impact on the way I feel. It's probably different for everyone, but I don't think that 1 or 2 cups of coffee each day is bad for you.
K.
Posted by btnd on March 3, 2004, at 6:19:14
In reply to Re: COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants???? » ace, posted by Sooshi on February 28, 2004, at 10:36:01
Yupp. Regular coffee definitely improves my mood. The only downside - its effects are short-lasting.
And my anti-depressant is Amisulpride. I've lowered the dosege to 25 mg/day, with no changes in effects, so far (which are great BTW).
Posted by Questionmark on March 3, 2004, at 11:17:01
In reply to Re: COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants????, posted by LynneDa on March 1, 2004, at 18:26:38
> I LOVE COFFEE! I'm so glad to hear the positive benefits of it from those of you who posted. Normally all we hear is how bad it is for your body (& I'm sure there's some merit to that too). It just makes me feel so much more alert and present in the world, I make better decisions and can interact with people on a higher level - just one cup in the a.m. and maybe a caffeinated soda at lunch.
>
> But, I'm afraid that it masks my depression/anxiety so I won't know if I'm still depressed or if the Lexapro is working, so I've been trying to cut back.
>
> What do you all think? (Someone please tell me not to worry about this and just keep drinking my one cup a day - LOL!)
> ~ LynneIf you were having about a cup or so of coffee every day before you started the Lexapro, and you have not been off coffee too long, then it should not mask your depression/anxiety too much to know if your Lexapro is working. Cuz if you've consistenly been drinking coffee for long enough, then that's basically now your normal state-- you w/ about one cup of coffee in you a day (or whatever it happens to be). It could muddle things a little, but in my opinion you should not try to quit. In fact, if you are dependent on caffeine and you quit while on the Lexapro, your depression might get worse and mask the positive effects of the Lexapro.
Green Hornet you said:
"I agree about the coffee -- works for me. But somewhere I heard that you should not use caffeine with dopamine reuptake inhibitors, that it cuts back or erases their effect. (ie Ritalin, Wellbutrin etc.) Anyone ever heard about this?
Lets not extol the virtues of caffine too much or some jackass will make it a controlled substance -- god forbid we should be "well"!!!"Caffeine should not cut back or erase the effect of DARIs (Ritalin, etc.)-- it compounds their effects.
Your last sentence was a great point. In fact i bet Pfizer and those guys detest caffeine. They think "Look at all those sorry b*st*rds who keep drinking coffee all the time. If it wasn't for coffee, they would hAVe to have our drugs!!" (Sorry, i just think Pfizer is run by the devil). But no, one time a few years ago, in a fit of coffee-induced manic passion, i was yelling to my friends about how i bet, within the next 30 years, caffeine will be made illegal (or at least controlled). i said that cocaine hydrochloride (the salt/ powder) was probably not much worse than isolated caffeine, and that many people in South America use coca leaves as a chew or a tea and are completely fine (except for maybe some enamel decay from the alkalinity). Think about it, if Vivarin or something had somewhat less fillers, and you snorted that, that would almost be as potent as cocaine. And then on top of all that, the government is going to figure out that the vast majority of people in this country (U.S.) who give a sh*t about things enough to do something about it-- the people who aren't just apathetic, conformist robots-- are those who drink coffee. And then they're going to start some major campaign of propoganda about the dangers and evil of caffeine (its addictiveness; its propensity to exacerbate psychoses, anxiety disorders, paranoia, and the like; its "negative" effects on the heart; and [turning around the point that i was trying to make] that it is almost as potent as COCAINE; etc. etc.), and before long it will be a controlled substance, and Pfizer's CEO will run for President and win, and then he will turn out to be the anti-Christ take over the world.
Okay i was actually starting to convince myself again until i added that stuff about Pfizer at the end. But you gotta admit, those are some interesting ideas, eh?
Alright, i know i sound like I'VE had way too much coffee, and i'm not sure whether pure caffeine is nearly as potent as cocaine (or whether caffeine-containing plants and coca are equally as benign), but, i duno. i had a point. Well anyway, thank God for caffeine.
Posted by nicky847 on March 3, 2004, at 12:32:28
In reply to Re: COFFEE, posted by Questionmark on March 3, 2004, at 11:17:01
Questionmark-
can i get movie rights to your Pfizer antichrist scenario? i think that is a potential goldmine :P..> > I LOVE COFFEE! I'm so glad to hear the positive benefits of it from those of you who posted. Normally all we hear is how bad it is for your body (& I'm sure there's some merit to that too). It just makes me feel so much more alert and present in the world, I make better decisions and can interact with people on a higher level - just one cup in the a.m. and maybe a caffeinated soda at lunch.
> >
> > But, I'm afraid that it masks my depression/anxiety so I won't know if I'm still depressed or if the Lexapro is working, so I've been trying to cut back.
> >
> > What do you all think? (Someone please tell me not to worry about this and just keep drinking my one cup a day - LOL!)
> > ~ Lynne
>
> If you were having about a cup or so of coffee every day before you started the Lexapro, and you have not been off coffee too long, then it should not mask your depression/anxiety too much to know if your Lexapro is working. Cuz if you've consistenly been drinking coffee for long enough, then that's basically now your normal state-- you w/ about one cup of coffee in you a day (or whatever it happens to be). It could muddle things a little, but in my opinion you should not try to quit. In fact, if you are dependent on caffeine and you quit while on the Lexapro, your depression might get worse and mask the positive effects of the Lexapro.
>
> Green Hornet you said:
> "I agree about the coffee -- works for me. But somewhere I heard that you should not use caffeine with dopamine reuptake inhibitors, that it cuts back or erases their effect. (ie Ritalin, Wellbutrin etc.) Anyone ever heard about this?
> Lets not extol the virtues of caffine too much or some jackass will make it a controlled substance -- god forbid we should be "well"!!!"
>
> Caffeine should not cut back or erase the effect of DARIs (Ritalin, etc.)-- it compounds their effects.
> Your last sentence was a great point. In fact i bet Pfizer and those guys detest caffeine. They think "Look at all those sorry b*st*rds who keep drinking coffee all the time. If it wasn't for coffee, they would hAVe to have our drugs!!" (Sorry, i just think Pfizer is run by the devil). But no, one time a few years ago, in a fit of coffee-induced manic passion, i was yelling to my friends about how i bet, within the next 30 years, caffeine will be made illegal (or at least controlled). i said that cocaine hydrochloride (the salt/ powder) was probably not much worse than isolated caffeine, and that many people in South America use coca leaves as a chew or a tea and are completely fine (except for maybe some enamel decay from the alkalinity). Think about it, if Vivarin or something had somewhat less fillers, and you snorted that, that would almost be as potent as cocaine. And then on top of all that, the government is going to figure out that the vast majority of people in this country (U.S.) who give a sh*t about things enough to do something about it-- the people who aren't just apathetic, conformist robots-- are those who drink coffee. And then they're going to start some major campaign of propoganda about the dangers and evil of caffeine (its addictiveness; its propensity to exacerbate psychoses, anxiety disorders, paranoia, and the like; its "negative" effects on the heart; and [turning around the point that i was trying to make] that it is almost as potent as COCAINE; etc. etc.), and before long it will be a controlled substance, and Pfizer's CEO will run for President and win, and then he will turn out to be the anti-Christ take over the world.
> Okay i was actually starting to convince myself again until i added that stuff about Pfizer at the end. But you gotta admit, those are some interesting ideas, eh?
> Alright, i know i sound like I'VE had way too much coffee, and i'm not sure whether pure caffeine is nearly as potent as cocaine (or whether caffeine-containing plants and coca are equally as benign), but, i duno. i had a point. Well anyway, thank God for caffeine.
Posted by Stryker88 on March 4, 2004, at 5:18:51
In reply to Re: COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants????, posted by green hornet on March 2, 2004, at 12:51:25
I drink way too much coffee for sure, and my plan is to quit however I keep putting it off more and more, whenever I feel down off of the coffee buzz I desperately seek out another cup. DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A WEBSITE OR MATERIAL THAT ASSISTS PEOPLE IN QUITTING COFFEE.
Posted by Darby on March 4, 2004, at 14:20:18
In reply to Re: COFFEE- augmenting antidepressants???? » Sooshi, posted by btnd on March 3, 2004, at 6:19:14
Adenosine receptors seem to play some role in the regulation of fatigue and mood, among other things...very interesting...
Darby
1: Eur J Pharmacol. 2002 May 10;442(3):215-23. Related Articles, Links
Dicinnamoylquinides in roasted coffee inhibit the human adenosine transporter.de Paulis T, Schmidt DE, Bruchey AK, Kirby MT, McDonald MP, Commers P, Lovinger DM, Martin PR.
Institute for Coffee Studies, Department of Psychiatry, Vanderbilt University School of Medicine, Nashville, TN 37232, USA.
Preliminary screening of a minor, non-xanthine constituent of roasted coffee, 3,4-diferuloyl-1,5-quinolactone (DIFEQ), showed inhibition of the adenosine transporter at low micromolar concentration. DIFEQ is a neutral derivative of the chlorogenic acids, i.e. isomeric mono- and di-substituted coumaroyl-, caffeoyl-, and feruloyl-esters of quinic acid, formed in the roasting process of coffee. Displacement of the adenosine transporter antagonist [(3)H](S)-(nitrobenzyl)-6-thioinosine binding by DIFEQ in cultured U-937 cell preparations, expressing the human adenosine transporter protein (hENT1), showed a K(i) of 0.96+/-0.13 microM. Extracts of regular and decaffeinated coffee showed binding activities equivalent to 30-40 mg DIFEQ per three cups of coffee. Acute administration of a high dose of DIFEQ (100 mg/kg i.p.) reduced open field locomotion in mice for 20 min in correlation with brain levels of DIFEQ. Both 3,4-dicaffeoyl-1,5-quinide and 3,4-dicoumaroyl-1,5-quinide, two close structural analogs of DIFEQ also present in roasted coffee, showed similar affinities for the adenosine transporter, while the corresponding 3- and 4-mono caffeoyl- and feruloyl-quinides were one to two orders of magnitudes less active. This suggests that 3,4-dicinnamoyl-1,5-quinides in coffee could have the potential to raise extra-cellular adenosine levels, thereby counteracting the stimulant effect of caffeine.
Posted by Questionmark on March 13, 2004, at 23:38:01
In reply to Re: COFFEE-Questionmark, posted by nicky847 on March 3, 2004, at 12:32:28
> Questionmark-
> can i get movie rights to your Pfizer antichrist scenario? i think that is a potential goldmine :P..Hah. Good, sure. And thanks.
> > > I LOVE COFFEE! I'm so glad to hear the positive benefits of it from those of you who posted. Normally all we hear is how bad it is for your body (& I'm sure there's some merit to that too). It just makes me feel so much more alert and present in the world, I make better decisions and can interact with people on a higher level - just one cup in the a.m. and maybe a caffeinated soda at lunch.
> > >
> > > But, I'm afraid that it masks my depression/anxiety so I won't know if I'm still depressed or if the Lexapro is working, so I've been trying to cut back.
> > >
> > > What do you all think? (Someone please tell me not to worry about this and just keep drinking my one cup a day - LOL!)
> > > ~ Lynne
> >
> > If you were having about a cup or so of coffee every day before you started the Lexapro, and you have not been off coffee too long, then it should not mask your depression/anxiety too much to know if your Lexapro is working. Cuz if you've consistenly been drinking coffee for long enough, then that's basically now your normal state-- you w/ about one cup of coffee in you a day (or whatever it happens to be). It could muddle things a little, but in my opinion you should not try to quit. In fact, if you are dependent on caffeine and you quit while on the Lexapro, your depression might get worse and mask the positive effects of the Lexapro.
> >
> > Green Hornet you said:
> > "I agree about the coffee -- works for me. But somewhere I heard that you should not use caffeine with dopamine reuptake inhibitors, that it cuts back or erases their effect. (ie Ritalin, Wellbutrin etc.) Anyone ever heard about this?
> > Lets not extol the virtues of caffine too much or some jackass will make it a controlled substance -- god forbid we should be "well"!!!"
> >
> > Caffeine should not cut back or erase the effect of DARIs (Ritalin, etc.)-- it compounds their effects.
> > Your last sentence was a great point. In fact i bet Pfizer and those guys detest caffeine. They think "Look at all those sorry b*st*rds who keep drinking coffee all the time. If it wasn't for coffee, they would hAVe to have our drugs!!" (Sorry, i just think Pfizer is run by the devil). But no, one time a few years ago, in a fit of coffee-induced manic passion, i was yelling to my friends about how i bet, within the next 30 years, caffeine will be made illegal (or at least controlled). i said that cocaine hydrochloride (the salt/ powder) was probably not much worse than isolated caffeine, and that many people in South America use coca leaves as a chew or a tea and are completely fine (except for maybe some enamel decay from the alkalinity). Think about it, if Vivarin or something had somewhat less fillers, and you snorted that, that would almost be as potent as cocaine. And then on top of all that, the government is going to figure out that the vast majority of people in this country (U.S.) who give a sh*t about things enough to do something about it-- the people who aren't just apathetic, conformist robots-- are those who drink coffee. And then they're going to start some major campaign of propoganda about the dangers and evil of caffeine (its addictiveness; its propensity to exacerbate psychoses, anxiety disorders, paranoia, and the like; its "negative" effects on the heart; and [turning around the point that i was trying to make] that it is almost as potent as COCAINE; etc. etc.), and before long it will be a controlled substance, and Pfizer's CEO will run for President and win, and then he will turn out to be the anti-Christ take over the world.
> > Okay i was actually starting to convince myself again until i added that stuff about Pfizer at the end. But you gotta admit, those are some interesting ideas, eh?
> > Alright, i know i sound like I'VE had way too much coffee, and i'm not sure whether pure caffeine is nearly as potent as cocaine (or whether caffeine-containing plants and coca are equally as benign), but, i duno. i had a point. Well anyway, thank God for caffeine.
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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