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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cubbybear on March 25, 2004, at 22:36:36
Could someone provide a link that would indicate up-to-date tyramine levels for all the various cheeses? Thanks for any help!
Posted by pretty_paints on March 26, 2004, at 6:46:07
In reply to Need Cheese Info for MAOIs, posted by cubbybear on March 25, 2004, at 22:36:36
Sorry, I dont have any info on your question - but I was just wondering, are MAOI's really the best AD? Iv heard that quite a lot. Have you been on any other ADs and if so, how do they compare?
take care!
Posted by djmmm on March 26, 2004, at 7:45:08
In reply to Need Cheese Info for MAOIs, posted by cubbybear on March 25, 2004, at 22:36:36
> Could someone provide a link that would indicate up-to-date tyramine levels for all the various cheeses? Thanks for any help!
here you go...
http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/psychiatry/CPS/19.html
Posted by Sad Panda on March 26, 2004, at 8:52:56
In reply to Re: Need Cheese Info for MAOIs, posted by pretty_paints on March 26, 2004, at 6:46:07
> Sorry, I dont have any info on your question - but I was just wondering, are MAOI's really the best AD? Iv heard that quite a lot. Have you been on any other ADs and if so, how do they compare?
>
> take care!
>MAOI's are potent & may have the least side effects, but combined with certain foods like aged cheese they potentially become lethal by causing a 'hypertensive crisis', if mixed with the wrong medicines they can cause lethal Serotonin Syndrome. For this reason most doctors won't even prescribe them & they have become last choice.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Ilene on March 26, 2004, at 20:16:11
In reply to Re: Need Cheese Info for MAOIs, posted by pretty_paints on March 26, 2004, at 6:46:07
> Sorry, I dont have any info on your question - but I was just wondering, are MAOI's really the best AD? Iv heard that quite a lot. Have you been on any other ADs and if so, how do they compare?
>
> take care!There's no such thing as the "best" AD. I'm treatment-resistant. I haven't had any better results on Marplan than I had on more conventional ADs. The side effects have been manageable, but I've had to cut out some of my favorite foods and I can't take my usual pain med.
On the other hand, several Babblers have done very well on MAOIs.
Posted by cubbybear on March 27, 2004, at 5:22:32
In reply to Re: Need Cheese Info for MAOIs, posted by pretty_paints on March 26, 2004, at 6:46:07
> Sorry, I dont have any info on your question - but I was just wondering, are MAOI's really the best AD? Iv heard that quite a lot. Have you been on any other ADs and if so, how do they compare?
>
> take care!Of course, I consider Parnate a life-saver, probably the only AD that would ever work for me, since I tried Remeron (which pooped out), Zoloft (which did nothing for my anxiety and decimated my sex drive and performance), and Moclobemide, which was useless and made my depression worse.
Our regular poster Ace can attest to the wonders of MAOI Nardil.
Posted by cubbybear on March 27, 2004, at 5:31:11
In reply to Re: Need Cheese Info for MAOIs » pretty_paints, posted by Sad Panda on March 26, 2004, at 8:52:56
>> >
>
> MAOI's are potent & may have the least side effects, but combined with certain foods like aged cheese they potentially become lethal by causing a 'hypertensive crisis', if mixed with the wrong medicines they can cause lethal Serotonin Syndrome. For this reason most doctors won't even prescribe them & they have become last choice.
>
> Cheers,
> Panda.I beg to differ. . .the reasons doctors won't prescribe MAOIs is not that they're so dangerous, it's a) the POTENTIAL dangers have been overstressed and exaggerated, and b) the big drug companies who are making the SSRIs, Effexor, and all the other "latest and greatest" ADs have done everything they can to convince the doctors to push only their products and relegate the ones that don't make any money for them into the trashcan.
>
>
>
Posted by cubbybear on March 27, 2004, at 5:37:41
In reply to Re: Need Cheese Info for MAOIs, posted by djmmm on March 26, 2004, at 7:45:08
> > Could someone provide a link that would indicate up-to-date tyramine levels for all the various cheeses? Thanks for any help!
>
> here you go...
> http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/psychiatry/CPS/19.htmlThanks very much, but I happen to have another piece of info (can't recall the source) that classifies Gruyere as a dangerous cheese, so I'm not sure what to do about this. Too bad that we MAOI users can't do the tyramine tests ourselves!
Posted by Sad Panda on March 27, 2004, at 11:49:03
In reply to Re: Need Cheese Info for MAOIs » Sad Panda, posted by cubbybear on March 27, 2004, at 5:31:11
> >> >
> >
> > MAOI's are potent & may have the least side effects, but combined with certain foods like aged cheese they potentially become lethal by causing a 'hypertensive crisis', if mixed with the wrong medicines they can cause lethal Serotonin Syndrome. For this reason most doctors won't even prescribe them & they have become last choice.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Panda.
>
> I beg to differ. . .the reasons doctors won't prescribe MAOIs is not that they're so dangerous, it's a) the POTENTIAL dangers have been overstressed and exaggerated, and b) the big drug companies who are making the SSRIs, Effexor, and all the other "latest and greatest" ADs have done everything they can to convince the doctors to push only their products and relegate the ones that don't make any money for them into the trashcan.
> >
> >
>
>Hi Cubbybear,
I agree totally that drug company reps are persuading doctors into the latest thing that makes money. I agree somewhat that the dangers are overstressed & I disagree that the dangers are exaggerated. If you are taking Nardil or Parnate & someone gives you a injection of pethidine in an ER suitation, you are going to be in some trouble. If you eat a big chunk of some 12 month old air cured sausage of the Spanish variety you are going to be in trouble. You & I are educated enough & we would probably carry around some Thorazine with us, but I don't think the average person would know what to do.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by cubbybear on March 28, 2004, at 1:53:08
In reply to Re: Need Cheese Info for MAOIs » Sad Panda » cubbybear, posted by Sad Panda on March 27, 2004, at 11:49:03
You & I are educated enough & we would probably carry around some Thorazine with us, but I don't think the average person would know what to do.Yes, I agree with all you said except that I don't think you mean Thorazine; I think you mean nifedipine.
>
>
Posted by Sad Panda on March 28, 2004, at 22:19:09
In reply to Re: Need Cheese Info for MAOIs » Sad Panda, posted by cubbybear on March 28, 2004, at 1:53:08
>
> You & I are educated enough & we would probably carry around some Thorazine with us, but I don't think the average person would know what to do.
>
> Yes, I agree with all you said except that I don't think you mean Thorazine; I think you mean nifedipine.
> >
> >
>Nifedipine only lowers blood pressure, Thorazine lowers blood pressure & reverses serotonin syndrome. Carrying both probably wouldn't be a bad idea.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by LastDyingWish on March 29, 2004, at 21:54:42
In reply to Re: Need Cheese Info for MAOIs » Sad Panda, posted by Sad Panda on March 28, 2004, at 22:19:09
In reguards to MAOIs. Has anyone tried selegiline ? I understand that it is void of the "cheese effect" at doses of 10-15mg. Also they are in the works of creating a transdermal patch that bipasses the intestine, avoiding intestinal amines.. does anyone else know anything ?
Posted by Ilene on March 29, 2004, at 22:25:52
In reply to Re: Need Cheese Info for MAOIs, posted by LastDyingWish on March 29, 2004, at 21:54:42
> In reguards to MAOIs. Has anyone tried selegiline ? I understand that it is void of the "cheese effect" at doses of 10-15mg. Also they are in the works of creating a transdermal patch that bipasses the intestine, avoiding intestinal amines.. does anyone else know anything ?
My understanding is that at high enough doses to be an effective AD the selegiline patch requires the same food restrictions as oral MAOIs. It could be that the manufacturer is simply being overly cautious.
Posted by Sad Panda on March 30, 2004, at 0:45:07
In reply to Re: Need Cheese Info for MAOIs, posted by LastDyingWish on March 29, 2004, at 21:54:42
> In reguards to MAOIs. Has anyone tried selegiline ? I understand that it is void of the "cheese effect" at doses of 10-15mg. Also they are in the works of creating a transdermal patch that bipasses the intestine, avoiding intestinal amines.. does anyone else know anything ?
>
>Most reports I have read say that it's doesn't do much for depression at Parkinsons doses less than 20mg, but above that it becomes non-selective & antidepressant. I expect it would be at least as stimulating as Parnate as it is the MAOI that metabolizes to amphetamine & methamphetamine. If you think Selegiline is worth a try don't wait forever for the patch, try it now, the diet is not that strict, you just need to educate yourself. One of the best places to see what you can & can't eat is right here, run a few Google searches.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by cubbybear on March 30, 2004, at 1:01:28
In reply to Re: Need Cheese Info for MAOIs » LastDyingWish, posted by Sad Panda on March 30, 2004, at 0:45:07
I expect it would be at least as stimulating as Parnate as it is the MAOI that metabolizes to amphetamine & methamphetamine.
> Cheers,
> Panda.I know this is way off the topic from what i originally posted, but you've got me thinking now: if Parnate metabolizes to amphetamine and methamphetamines, would a drug test given (to me) by police to detect the presence of these illegal drugs yield a positive reading, since I'm taking Parnate?
Here in Bangkok, the repressive government thinks nothing of having police raid night establishments and subjecting patrons to urine tests for these drugs. Not only do I feel this is an invasion of my privacy, but on a medical level, I'd fear that they would be unable to distinguish between results of a test for illegal and legal drugs, and who knows what kind of penalty I'd get? I don't patronize these establishments but I feel I need to know the ramifications of a drug test on any patient who's taking Parnate.
Would you or someone else please comment?
cubbybear
Posted by Sad Panda on March 30, 2004, at 5:58:33
In reply to Re: Need Cheese Info for MAOIs » Sad Panda, posted by cubbybear on March 30, 2004, at 1:01:28
> I expect it would be at least as stimulating as Parnate as it is the MAOI that metabolizes to amphetamine & methamphetamine.
> > Cheers,
> > Panda.
>
> I know this is way off the topic from what i originally posted, but you've got me thinking now: if Parnate metabolizes to amphetamine and methamphetamines, would a drug test given (to me) by police to detect the presence of these illegal drugs yield a positive reading, since I'm taking Parnate?
> Here in Bangkok, the repressive government thinks nothing of having police raid night establishments and subjecting patrons to urine tests for these drugs. Not only do I feel this is an invasion of my privacy, but on a medical level, I'd fear that they would be unable to distinguish between results of a test for illegal and legal drugs, and who knows what kind of penalty I'd get? I don't patronize these establishments but I feel I need to know the ramifications of a drug test on any patient who's taking Parnate.
> Would you or someone else please comment?
> cubbybear
>
>Sorry to alarm you Cubbybear, I worded that sentence very poorly. What I was trying to say was: I expect it would be at least as stimulating as Parnate as it(it being Selegiline)is the MAOI that metabolizes to amphetamine & methamphetamine. Parnate, AKAIK, does not metabolize into amphetamines. Sorry to cause you confusion, sometimes I confuse me. :) I would hope the tester would ask what you are on if you were taking Selegiline. Did you know that your liver turns Codeine into Morphine? A tester wouldn't automatically assume you are taking Morphine.
Cheers,
Panda.
This is the end of the thread.
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