![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 37 to 61 of 61. Go back in thread:
Posted by dancingstar on November 30, 2004, at 19:38:44
In reply to Re: drug-induced illness, posted by linkadge on November 30, 2004, at 10:31:32
Forgive my intrustion, but does this in any way also apply to drugs like Effexor, which wasn't prescribed as an antipsychotic? Is it considered to be in the same class of drugs?
At any rate, thank you for the valuable information. It is most gracious of you.
Posted by JACJ on November 30, 2004, at 20:08:03
In reply to Re: drug-induced illness, posted by dancingstar on November 30, 2004, at 19:38:44
> Forgive my intrustion, but does this in any way also apply to drugs like Effexor, which wasn't prescribed as an antipsychotic? Is it considered to be in the same class of drugs?
>
> At any rate, thank you for the valuable information. It is most gracious of you.
There is some literature out that states effexor maybe linked to TD but nothing is concrete yet. I try to stay up with research on TD. I will try to locate some info for you. I know Effexor does affects the dopamine in your brain. Do you have any symptoms?
Posted by dancingstar on November 30, 2004, at 20:44:57
In reply to Re: drug-induced illness for dancing star, posted by JACJ on November 30, 2004, at 20:08:03
I'm not sure what TD is, but as briefly as possible here's the deal:
At the end of Sept. on a whim I stopped taking Effexor-XR 150mg after taking it for three years. It was originally prescribed for "fatigue" by a family practice doc. that I no longer see. He also prescribed Oxycontin, which I stopped taking on my own for a back injury because I didn't like the way it made me feel. As far as doctors go, I have little respect for the care and treatment that he gave me. My tiredness and pain grew worse and worse; and I couldn't run my own business or teach gym classes for fun as I used to do. I hardly ate but had gained about 25 or so pounds.
Finally someone introduced me to my current internist who began to regulate my thyroid -- who knew? But I still didn't know to quit taking Effexor, and it did not seem to have an effect on my weight. In fact, it was not being able to lose weight that finally made me quit taking Effexor.
The first two days I was fine, but by the third I was in hell in every way one can imagine. I hurt in every part of my body, from my eyelashes to my toes. By the third week off of E, I began to wonder if I would die. I spent hundreds of dollars on every high-end supplement that I read about, but nothing would help, not for long. At this point I am only left with what feels like a hole in my stomach and mildly shattered nerves in my back and neck and a general malaise. I just don't feel terrific, but I can't explain why. It could be that my stomach and back hurt all the time. I hear that the reason my teeth have been a bit ground down could also be because of this, but I didn't know that until now. I can think very, very clearly for the first time in years.
There have been some seriously horrid things that have happened in my life during the course of the last few years that I have not handled as well as I should have both because I haven't had the strength to and because I didn't care as much as I feel that I should have or would have had I not been under the influence of this drug. My fibromyalgia-type pain seems to have vanished. In its place, though, I am stuck with this annoying intestinal problem where I cannot stay out of the bathroom for very long, and my stomach is quite upset most of the time. I guess I should add that I've lost the weight :-).
I was never told about any problems with this drug, and by the look in my highly educated internist's eyes, I get the impression that he has not seen much of what I am going through. I know that he will no longer prescribe Effexor to patients as a new drug to take. In a million ways, despite my current symptoms, I feel tons better off Effexor than I did on it, mostly because of the mental clarity, but the changes were so slow and so subtle that I didn't notice them while I was taking it. I feel like I lost three years of my life, and I can't get them back. I was literally home, unable to get up, to stay awake, and I thought I had some dread disease.
That's about it. Oh, I guess I left off all that brain shiver stuff and the vision changes that I am still going through. Pretty strange things. All for a bit of fatigue? Wow, wish I had known this. Did you know that they prescribe this for things like perimenopause and all kinds of silly things?
That was not at all brief. I got on my soapbox again. I'm sorry.
Bebe
Posted by JACJ on November 30, 2004, at 21:42:14
In reply to Re: drug-induced illness for dancing star » JACJ, posted by dancingstar on November 30, 2004, at 20:44:57
Hi Bebe,
I will write more tomorrow. I am going nighty nite but wanted to let you know if you want to leanr more on Effexor XR go to www.wyeth.com and go to prescribing information and you will find an abundant amount of information on Effexor and withdrawal which will help ease your mind. Well, it may not ease your mind but will give you some answers to your concerns. Knowledge is power and it helped me thru my drug withdrawal b/c I thought I was losing my mind until I did some research. Take care of yourself.JACJ
Posted by JACJ on November 30, 2004, at 22:40:14
In reply to Re: drug-induced illness for dancing star » JACJ, posted by dancingstar on November 30, 2004, at 20:44:57
Hi Bebe,
I am very sorry you are suffering. I was on Effexor (150Mgs) and I came off it Cold Turkey and spent the next three days in bed with every symptom out there. I reinstated and felt immediately better. You have to taper slowly. I know it is hard to get back to normality after having a bad experience like you did but you are off now and can have a fresh new start. Psychtropic drugs are not for everyone. I am one of those people who suffered at the hands of "trusted" doctors.
What bothers me is doctor's are now putting people on some heavy hitting drugs for common problems like insominia, etc. What happened to trying more natural methods? I respect if other people really need to do drug therapy but I also get irrate when drugs are just given for any little symptom/problem.FYI- Brain Shivers are very common in withdrawal from Effexor. I had no drug withdrawal from effexor when I tapered right so I can't say how long w/d will last. It really depends on the length, dose and person. Dirnk fresh cool water with lemon. It helps detox the body and is so good for you. Stay away from white flour, sugars and processed food which increases some w/d symptoms. Take care.
JACJ
Posted by dancingstar on November 30, 2004, at 23:21:54
In reply to Re: drug-induced illness for dancing star, posted by JACJ on November 30, 2004, at 21:42:14
Thanks, JACJ. I appreciate your help. I don't eat flour, sugar, and just recently brought oatmeal back into my life. I will try your suggestion of adding lemon to the surplus of water that I drink and will also check out Wyeth's website.
I'm on a bit of a mission to change the way these drugs are handled as I know that I was never informed of these withdrawal possibilites nor of any possible side effects, and the drug reps selling/pushing to family prac docs and internists don't seem to make a habit of providing that sort info to them. As it is, Effexor was misprescribed to me in the first place. I don't suppose that I should have ever been taking it.
I completely agree that we have become a society that takes a pill for every possible problem, and doctors are too quick to handle our symptoms by writing prescriptions for potent drugs that may be dangerous. I'm not sure that they are entirely to blame. Who is to be trusted? As of lately, it doesn't seem as though one should rely on the FDA for truth in safety and efficacy, and that is all the medical community has been relying on or so it seems. Turning the paying public into unwilling gunea pigs is unethical, immoral, and just plain wrong...but they are sure making a lot of money off of us.
I guess that's why I asked the original question in the first place about whether Effexor was known by Wyeth to actually cause problems but if that information was being kept somewhat out of the hands of the medical community.
Thanks again....
Posted by ed_uk on December 1, 2004, at 7:02:30
In reply to Re: drug-induced illness for dancing star, posted by dancingstar on November 30, 2004, at 23:21:54
Hi!
While we are talking about inappropriate prescribing I just wanted to say that a friend of the family was prescribed Effexor for a very stupid reason.
She went to the doctor because she thought that she had felt a lump in her neck. The doctor asked her if she was anxious or depressed and she said no. He did not examine her neck at all, he told her that her problem was psychological (presumably her though it was globus hystericus). Anyway, he handed her a script for Effexor but gave no explanation of what the drug was for. This was all a long time ago, I think she still takes Effexor.
Ed.
Posted by JACJ on December 1, 2004, at 7:12:57
In reply to Re: Careless prescribing, posted by ed_uk on December 1, 2004, at 7:02:30
> Hi!
>
> While we are talking about inappropriate prescribing I just wanted to say that a friend of the family was prescribed Effexor for a very stupid reason.
>
> She went to the doctor because she thought that she had felt a lump in her neck. The doctor asked her if she was anxious or depressed and she said no. He did not examine her neck at all, he told her that her problem was psychological (presumably her though it was globus hystericus). Anyway, he handed her a script for Effexor but gave no explanation of what the drug was for. This was all a long time ago, I think she still takes Effexor.
>
> Ed.
Ed,
My heart breaks for your friend. This is what gets me upset. I understand people need psychotropic drugs for some severe illnesses but just to give Effexor; that just blows my mind. How long has she been on effexor? Does she have any mental probs now? I had depression and anxiety when I first went onto the drugs but while on them, about 3 months later, the docs classified me as Bi-Polar II with psychotic features. And the sad part is that I believed them. Here all along it was the side effects because of the drugs. These drugs turned me into a different person completely. I think docs need to take more pharmacology classes and truly understand the power of these drugs. I have a few friends in medical school and they only take a semester or two of pharmacology which IMO is NOT enough. The docs rely on Pharm. reps who go thru brief training on these drugs. The docs also get alot of kickbacks from these drug companies and free samples so the docs just hand them out and try. I just get very upset b/c this is down right ignorance. Just my opinion.
Posted by lostforwards on December 1, 2004, at 7:24:12
In reply to Re: Careless prescribing, posted by JACJ on December 1, 2004, at 7:12:57
Effexor is addictive too. I think they called it Effexor because it sounds like "effects her". Oh yes, my friends, that's how sneaky they are.
maybe not.
Posted by JACJ on December 1, 2004, at 7:29:29
In reply to Re: Careless prescribing » JACJ, posted by lostforwards on December 1, 2004, at 7:24:12
> Effexor is addictive too. I think they called it Effexor because it sounds like "effects her". Oh yes, my friends, that's how sneaky they are.
> maybe not.Hi Link,
I believe all psychotropic drugs are addictive. Effexor is a tough drug which has terrible w/d effects. Luckily, I didn't have any w/d effects but I was on other meds which probably masked the w/d.
Posted by lostforwards on December 1, 2004, at 7:30:09
In reply to Re: drug-induced illness, posted by dancingstar on November 30, 2004, at 19:38:44
They aren't in the same class of drugs. I think the way effexor would cause any TD is different from how APs do. APs block receptors and cause supersensitivity. effexor has indirect effects on DA receptors by causing changes in dopamine levels. Traditionally the APs have been associated with movement disorders but it seems with time they're finding that antidepressants also cause the problem. I'm not sure if the likelyhood is as great though.
www.antidepressantsfacts.com
has a page with a list of links to journal abstracts.
Posted by lostforwards on December 1, 2004, at 7:37:04
In reply to Re: Careless prescribing, posted by JACJ on December 1, 2004, at 7:29:29
I heard effexor was especially addictive.
Linkadge
* ( in case you can't tell, this is a joke ) *
Posted by ed_uk on December 1, 2004, at 7:48:12
In reply to Re: Careless prescribing » JACJ, posted by lostforwards on December 1, 2004, at 7:37:04
Hi,
I don't think she's got any mental health problems at the moment but then she never had any in the firt place! She's taken Effexor for quite a few years now, can't come off it.
I think they called it Effexor because it sounds like 'effective'. In the UK the spelling is Efexor, I think Wyeth didn't want all the American info about side effects to come up when English people typed Efexor into Google!
Ed.
Posted by JACJ on December 1, 2004, at 7:54:23
In reply to Re: Effexor.... to jacj, posted by ed_uk on December 1, 2004, at 7:48:12
> Hi,
>
> I don't think she's got any mental health problems at the moment but then she never had any in the firt place! She's taken Effexor for quite a few years now, can't come off it.
>
> I think they called it Effexor because it sounds like 'effective'. In the UK the spelling is Efexor, I think Wyeth didn't want all the American info about side effects to come up when English people typed Efexor into Google!
>
> Ed.
>
I agree with you Ed. The reason I asked if your friend had any mental issues was due to b/c these drugs can cause you to have probs and be misdiagnosed which leads to more drugs to where sometimes you can't get out.
Posted by MKB on December 1, 2004, at 9:18:56
In reply to Re: Careless prescribing, posted by JACJ on December 1, 2004, at 7:12:57
Posted by MKB on December 1, 2004, at 9:21:37
In reply to Re: Careless prescribing, posted by JACJ on December 1, 2004, at 7:29:29
I disagree that they are all addictive. I've taken 5 different ones. Effexor is in a class by itself in my experience.
Posted by dancingstar on December 1, 2004, at 12:32:11
In reply to Re: Careless prescribing, posted by JACJ on December 1, 2004, at 7:12:57
I have a feeling that's how I also ended up on Oxycontin. I was only able to get it from a pharmacy in Arizona, though I live in California. The doctor had the drug rep explain to me that it was better for me to take this than to take Vicodin for my injured disc problem. I thought it was a lousy idea, but she insisted that I give it a try.
I was on a private disability plan that I purchased, and when the doctor was interviewed, he denied prescribing Oxycontin, and I lost my benefits. I stopped taking it. The doctor stopped seeing me.
I went to a lawyer. When the lawyer saw the records, he thought I had done something wrong, and I couldn't make it right, but I looked up the doctor's records, and he had been suspended in the past and I don't think he could write those prescriptions or something was funny, and maybe he was getting a kickback from the company -- I don't know, but I have wondered about this for a long time. I didn't know what to do. Anyway, that is the same man that put me on Effexor for "fatigue" that turned out to be a thyroid problem. Now that I'm off of it, all of my joint and hip pain symptoms seem to have gone away, but I'm left with something like colitis and pretty bad stomach pain and generalized withdrawal pain, but that will go away, I'm sure, though it's been two months. I wasn't ever depressed -- angry, maybe :-)
I want to go after the doctor, but I have also placed a call to a respectful but one of the strongest class action guys around in an effort to change the way these drugs are handled and would appeciate any input that anyone has with regard to this.
Family practitioners and internists are being bombarded with drug reps, and their patients are paying the price of this onslaught. I couldn't make it to a gym class this morning because I couldn't leave the bathroom. This is really getting old. But it's not just me, it is everyone else, too. If it were just me, I would file a simple claim for myself. How can we allow the harm to innocent people to continue now that we know about it? Frankly, how dare Wyeth do so?
...me and that darn soapbox seem to be attached at the feet.
Posted by madscientist999 on December 1, 2004, at 13:39:14
In reply to Re: Careless prescribing » JACJ, posted by dancingstar on December 1, 2004, at 12:32:11
I've long thought that many docs seem to be way too attached to their presciption pads. Even when something is working they want you to "try this new medicine that the drug rep just dropped off". I've even had office visits interrupted because the drug rep has stopped by with that free lunch she promised. It's true, they are bombarded with propaganda on these drugs. Just look around the office. Pens, calendars, paperweights, clipboards, pocket protectors. My doctor is even defending Lexapro now. He told me to stop "blaming" lexapro for my problems, (like Lexapro is now a person, or at least something he has a vested personal interest in) He told me I wasn't having withdrawal symptoms, but panic attacks and I needed to see a psychiatrist. Well, he was officially 'fired' last night, and I'm seeing a new doc on Friday. I really think that that is the only power we have as patients. If we feel we are being treated as guinea pigs, we can find a new doc ( at least I hope we all have that option) We are the only ones that know how WE feel.
Posted by dancingstar on December 1, 2004, at 15:02:08
In reply to Re: Careless prescribing, posted by madscientist999 on December 1, 2004, at 13:39:14
...and I just got off the telephone after having to withdraw from a University class. When I was explaining why I was withdrawing from the class, that I now had colitis and other icky problems as a result of having stopped taking Effexor, I found out that the lovely woman that I spoke with had just been prescribed Effexor for -- get ready -- hot flashes and prolonged symptoms of menopause. She is now feeling a lot better. But what will happen in a year from now or two or three? She got the prescription from her general doctor.
Posted by mattw84 on December 1, 2004, at 15:55:07
In reply to Re: Careless prescribing, posted by madscientist999 on December 1, 2004, at 13:39:14
Consider this:
Here is a nice little acronym from medschool...
Somatisation Disorder Besets Ladies And Vexes Physicians. (SDBLAVP)
- Shortness of breath
- Dysmenorrhoea
- Burning in sex organs
- Lump in throat
- Amnesia
- Vomiting
- Painful extremitiesMost common treatments?
- SSRI/SNRI
- TCA
- MAOINot to deny any claim that the big pharmaceutical companies are not over-marketing these sparsely effective drugs. Yet, the doctors decision to prescribe an antidepressant may have been on the right track... Hope this doesn't offend anyone!
Matt
Posted by madscientist999 on December 1, 2004, at 16:04:34
In reply to Re: Careless prescribing -- Not always the case., posted by mattw84 on December 1, 2004, at 15:55:07
> Consider this:
>
> Here is a nice little acronym from medschool...
>
> Somatisation Disorder Besets Ladies And Vexes Physicians. (SDBLAVP)
>
> - Shortness of breath
> - Dysmenorrhoea
> - Burning in sex organs
> - Lump in throat
> - Amnesia
> - Vomiting
> - Painful extremities
>
> Most common treatments?
>
> - SSRI/SNRI
> - TCA
> - MAOI
>
> Not to deny any claim that the big pharmaceutical companies are not over-marketing these sparsely effective drugs. Yet, the doctors decision to prescribe an antidepressant may have been on the right track... Hope this doesn't offend anyone!
>
> Matt
>
>No offense taken...An SSRI once saved my life. There certainly are times that they are called for.
Posted by ed_uk on December 2, 2004, at 15:43:23
In reply to Re: Careless prescribing -- Not always the case., posted by madscientist999 on December 1, 2004, at 16:04:34
Hi,
Globus hystericus alone is certainly not a good reason to prescribe Effexor. My friend was concerned about the possibility of cancer and a bit of good old-fashioned reassurance was all that was necessary. Significant anxiety or depression was not present.
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by dancingstar on December 2, 2004, at 16:09:29
In reply to Re: Careless prescribing -- Not always the case., posted by ed_uk on December 2, 2004, at 15:43:23
Thanks, Ed. I thought that the comment was better coming from your side of the species.
Posted by SDA on December 6, 2004, at 4:36:43
In reply to drug-induced illness, posted by lostforwards on November 30, 2004, at 8:25:33
> TD is a well documented side-effect of antipsychotics. It occurs as a result of supersensitivity of dopamine receptors. There is also something called supersensitivity psychosis that has been less talked about.
>
> I'd like to know whether the consequences of supersenstivity go beyond merely making psychotic symptoms worse. I'd like to know if it has an effect on negative symptoms, and if it can resuls in the development of other psychiatric or psychological problems.
>
> I've read on ONE site, it was a antipsychiatry site, that the use of antipsychotics can lead to the development of personality disorders.
>
> I don't know much about dopamine in the brain, but I know that it is involved with reward and motivation. Somewhere else ( again antipsychiatry extreme ) I read that APs interfered with the "reward cascade".
>
> These little bits and pices of blah and a bit of imagination make it easy for me to believe that there's some truth to that one statement I read on that single site.What is "TD"?
Posted by ed_uk on December 6, 2004, at 5:49:27
In reply to Re: drug-induced illness, posted by SDA on December 6, 2004, at 4:36:43
Tardive dyskinesia
Ed.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.