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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ed_uk on December 3, 2004, at 10:11:20
Hello,
At the moment there are only two hospitals in the UK at which psychosurgery is carried out. One of these is Ninewells hospital in Dundee. Information can be found on the University of Dundee website. Vagus nerve stimulation and deep brain stimulation are also discussed. Statistics for success rates are provided. Two operations are currently available at these hospitals: the anterior capsulotomy and the anterior cingulotomy. Other operations are currently unavailable in the UK, examples include: the subcaudate tractotomy and the limbic leucotomy. The subcaudate tractotomy hasn't been used in the UK for a number of years, it was formerly performed in London.
It would be good to hear some opinions. Have a look at the website I mentioned. Unfortunately, there is little discussion of the risks and dangers of the surgery. I am not promoting psychosurgery. Please don't misunderstand my post.
Ed.
Posted by Linkadge on December 3, 2004, at 10:37:32
In reply to Neurosurgery for mental disorder, posted by ed_uk on December 3, 2004, at 10:11:20
I saw a Learning Channel show on the SST performed in the Geoffery Knight hospital in England.
Two of the three individuals had intractable bipolar disorder, and the other had major depression. They were all treated with SST, and the two with bipolar disorder responded dramatically. The one with depression had little effect.
However, for the two bipolar individuals, it was found with cat scans (or whatever) that caudate activity was way abnormal.
A lot of depression stems from the
"hell centers" of the brain being way too
overactive. SST drills two little holes in the
back of your head, stick two little rods deep into the brain, and makes tiny lesions in these areas which some docotors refer to as the "hell centers"Basically that part of the brain that works 24/7 to put a negative spin on everything that happens in your life.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on December 3, 2004, at 10:46:44
In reply to Re: Neurosurgery for mental disorder, posted by Linkadge on December 3, 2004, at 10:37:32
Hi Link,
Apparantly, the Geoffrey Knight centre no longer performs the SST.
Ed.
Posted by linkadge on December 3, 2004, at 10:56:20
In reply to Re: Neurosurgery for mental disorder, posted by ed_uk on December 3, 2004, at 10:46:44
Realy ??
Strange
Linkadge
Posted by paulbwell on December 3, 2004, at 16:16:03
In reply to Neurosurgery for mental disorder, posted by ed_uk on December 3, 2004, at 10:11:20
> Hello,
>
> At the moment there are only two hospitals in the UK at which psychosurgery is carried out. One of these is Ninewells hospital in Dundee. Information can be found on the University of Dundee website. Vagus nerve stimulation and deep brain stimulation are also discussed. Statistics for success rates are provided. Two operations are currently available at these hospitals: the anterior capsulotomy and the anterior cingulotomy. Other operations are currently unavailable in the UK, examples include: the subcaudate tractotomy and the limbic leucotomy. The subcaudate tractotomy hasn't been used in the UK for a number of years, it was formerly performed in London.
>
> It would be good to hear some opinions. Have a look at the website I mentioned. Unfortunately, there is little discussion of the risks and dangers of the surgery. I am not promoting psychosurgery. Please don't misunderstand my post.
>
> Ed.
>
>
>
> Hey Dude,Whats your facination with Psych surgery?
You can't be considering It yourself?, you post here to often to seem that depressed. I know it's hard-core n' all, but kinda morbid ya know?:{
Posted by linkadge on December 3, 2004, at 20:00:30
In reply to Re: Neurosurgery for mental disorder, posted by paulbwell on December 3, 2004, at 16:16:03
Psychosurgery is much more refined than the labotomy some years ago.
For some it is a very real option.
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on December 3, 2004, at 20:26:47
In reply to Re: Neurosurgery for mental disorder, posted by linkadge on December 3, 2004, at 20:00:30
> Psychosurgery is much more refined than the labotomy some years ago.
>
> For some it is a very real option.
>
>
> Linkadge
I haven't excluded it. The idea is very frightening, though. I need something.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on December 3, 2004, at 20:33:08
In reply to Neurosurgery for mental disorder, posted by ed_uk on December 3, 2004, at 10:11:20
I could be wrong, but I believe Harvard in the US still does work with psychosurgery. I think they cooperate with a center in Australia. I don't know which procedures they perform.
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on December 3, 2004, at 23:58:39
In reply to Re: Neurosurgery for mental disorder, posted by SLS on December 3, 2004, at 20:33:08
I read somewhere (it may have been an article posted on this board) that certain persons treated with the more advanced psychosurgery procedures can actually experience an increase in IQ scores. (most likely high IQ that was blocked by depression), unlike with ECT, which almost always stunts cognition.
Some of these procedures involve the removal of say only 1 cubic centemeter (metric) of brain volume.
Of the some odd 3000 SST procedures done at the Knight institute in England, a post operative suicidiality of 2% (60+ % preoperativly) was acknowledged. Memory loss is much rarer than in ECT.
I know its not the be all, if you saw the documentary I did, you would know why psychosurgery is promising.
They showed cat scans of the regions that were implicated in the depressive symptoms of the subjects compared to normal nonderessed controlls. Certain parts of the brain: amygdala, caudate, hypothylamus, etc were completely abnormally sized compared to the controlls.
This is like a big fat amygdala (fear / anxiety centre of brain) completely dominating and controlling all other regions, this is the part of the brain that comes up with a reason that you will fail, the part that thinks its doing you a favor by telling you to give up.
These are why antipsychotics can sometimes really help depression too. Zyprexa (for instance) shows a very high occupancy activity in the amygdala.
Psychosurgery is like taking those fear/depression/hell centers and burning them out, finally letting the better part of the brain work.
Who knows how the structural abnormalilties occured in resistant depression, childhood abuse, genetics, its a mystery.
But I do know that it could take decades for prozac to chizel its way through a domineering amygdala.
This is also why people with mood disorders can "very easily" relapse. Because the bad memories, and fearful interpretations still exist. If only we could burn them out, now that sounds promising.
"What if one day you woke up and your brain let you give life your best shot, then and only then would you be free"
Linkadge
Posted by JayDee on December 4, 2004, at 0:35:38
In reply to Neurosurgery for mental disorder, posted by ed_uk on December 3, 2004, at 10:11:20
Hey,
What about this???
http://paradise-engineering.com/brain/index.htm
sounds nice, you could have your own 'happy' button.
Posted by SLS on December 4, 2004, at 7:26:45
In reply to Re: Neurosurgery for mental disorder, posted by linkadge on December 3, 2004, at 23:58:39
> Psychosurgery is like taking those fear/depression/hell centers and burning them out, finally letting the better part of the brain work.
Personally, I am interested in how psychosurgery impacts bipolar depression. I think the physiology behind it is different from unipolar depression, although there are similarities in their expression. I would hate to go in for an operation that works for unipolar depression but for which little work was done to assure that it is also effective for bipolar depression.
My illness does not manifest as depressive thinking, sadness, melancholy, or sadness so much as it does as profound anergia, anhedonia, lack of interest and motivation, and cognitive deficits. I worry that the physiology and brain circuits responsible for the two illness are different, and that these procedures don't target the right tissues for bipolar disorder. I think there is a problem with the DLPFC in my case. Would these procedures have any impact on this area?
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on December 4, 2004, at 10:46:29
In reply to Re: Neurosurgery for mental disorder » linkadge, posted by SLS on December 4, 2004, at 7:26:45
When you go to do something you have to do, do you find yourself saying "whats the point" ??
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on December 4, 2004, at 12:11:09
In reply to Re: Neurosurgery for mental disorder, posted by linkadge on December 4, 2004, at 10:46:29
> When you go to do something you have to do, do you find yourself saying "whats the point" ??
>
> LinkadgeNo. I really don't. Everything is a push, though. Everything is a chore that I really don't have the resources do without great effort - even things that are supposed to be fun. However, I usually recognize the importance of completing a task.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk on December 4, 2004, at 16:00:25
In reply to Re: Neurosurgery for mental disorder, posted by paulbwell on December 3, 2004, at 16:16:03
Hi,
I'm not depressed and I'm not considering neurosurgery.
Ed.
This is the end of the thread.
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