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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 41 to 65 of 79. Go back in thread:
Posted by jerrympls on May 18, 2005, at 20:27:35
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » jerrympls, posted by Bob on May 12, 2005, at 10:00:23
>
> > Hi Bob
> > Good questions you raise. I don't think my ECT treatment was considered an "emergency" treatment - it was more of a last resort becuase I wasn't responding to traditional meds. After ECT my depression got much worse and I started having panic attacks - which I had NOT had prior to treatment. I've had more "suicidal ideation" since my ECT - much much more so than prior to the treatments. I also have been in the hospital more (in psych wards) than before my ECT too. I've never attempted suicide - but have come very close. Currently I'm on a med cocktail that has kept me pretty stable and out of deep periods of severe depression. I currently take Lexapro, Klonopin, Dexedrine and hydrocodone. Yes, an opiate. My doc finally agreed to prescribe it for me and it's worked wonders - no miracle cure - but very close to "normal" and I'm able to work. I've been on opiate therapy for my depression for about 5-6 months now? and have had no problems with tolerance or abuse.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
>
> Jerry:
>
> Once again, you've raised a few more questions for me.
>
> When you say you "weren't responding to traditional meds", does that mean they just weren't changing how you felt, or were they doing unpleasant things both psychologically and somatically? For me, it got to the point where my body was having extreme problems and experiencing all kinds of physical side effects.?They were doing both. I would have semi-partial responses with A LOT of side effects. I was on many med cocktails that just left me lethargic and cloudy. Finally the doc said: "Well, let's try Dexedrine before ECT." That worked really well for me - but he only kept me on it for 3 months or so - then took me off for reasons I can't recall and I was MORE depressed than ever. This was back in the early 1990's. I went into the hospital for the first time for the ECT treatments. A month after the treatments I was back in w/ severe anxiety and suicial ideation. They kept me in for a week.
>
> If you were having physical reactions to the meds before ECT, I guess it's safe to assume that you are not going through that now?I'm not sure what you mean exactly - but let me answer how I think you're wanting me to answer. I don't know if it's because I've been on so many meds over the years or what, but I rarely experience the side effects as strongly as I did many years ago. Also, I still only get semi-partial responses to meds. The best combo has been an SSRI + Stimulant + Benzo.
>
> My therapist told me the other day that her recent experiences have shown that hospitals rarely keep people for more than a day or two if you go there claiming you are suicidal. Did you find this to be true? I asked her who goes in the psych ward, and she couldn't really tell me. She said that as soon as you say you are not currently suicidal, they check you out!Hmm. Not from my experiences. Every time I've been in the minimum was 1 week - even if you said you weren't suicidal anymore. Plus, of the suicidal many "fellow-patients" that I got to know, most were kept in at least 2 weeks or longer. Some had been there at least a month. I guess it depends on the doctor/hospital, etc?
The last time I went in, I wasn't suicidal - I just needed a med change to an MAOI and they wanted to do it inpatient. I was in 2 weeks in order for them to wash out other meds and start me on Nardil.
>
> You said you're working now. How long did you not work? That is a wild drug combo, but it must be working pretty well if you're working.After I graduated college in 1995 - I was in bed for 2 years. Then, I got put on an SSRI + Stim combo and worked for 2 years then slumped back into depression. I finally moved to MN about 5 years ago and have been working ever since - however, my depression has taken a toll on my work attendance. I got protection under the ADA and FLMA through our Disability Services dept. which allowed me to take 12 weeks off last summer for another med change. However, since October 2004 when I went back to work, I've missed on average at least 1 day /week. Fortunately my employer has been accomodating allowing me to make up missed time, etc. Now, I'm seriously thinking about going to grad school.
>
> Last question: how much Klonopin are you taking? Have you ever noticed a difference between Klonopin, and the generic Clonazepam? I've heard from some sources that the generic is possibly "dirtier".I take 1mg 4x daily. It's the generic. I've never had the brand name so I can't tell you the difference.
Hope this helps!
>
> Bob
>
>
Posted by Bob on May 20, 2005, at 12:55:29
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Bob, posted by jerrympls on May 18, 2005, at 20:27:35
>
> After I graduated college in 1995 - I was in bed for 2 years. Then, I got put on an SSRI + Stim combo and worked for 2 years then slumped back into depression. I finally moved to MN about 5 years ago and have been working ever since - however, my depression has taken a toll on my work attendance. I got protection under the ADA and FLMA through our Disability Services dept. which allowed me to take 12 weeks off last summer for another med change. However, since October 2004 when I went back to work, I've missed on average at least 1 day /week. Fortunately my employer has been accomodating allowing me to make up missed time, etc. Now, I'm seriously thinking about going to grad school.
> >>
> Hope this helps!It sounds like you're a real fighter. To be having that much trouble and still be able to move to different states and contemplate going to grad school is impressive. Personally, I'm on disability, and can't imagine working right now. I was missing at least a day a week before I stopped working, and had to do everything I could to hide it.
Good luck in whatever you do. Oh, and thanks for answering all my questions!
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 20, 2005, at 17:14:58
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Bob, posted by jerrympls on May 18, 2005, at 20:27:35
Has anyone considered the timeline of their depresion and where their benzodiazepine usage was at that time?
I have certainly heard (and may be experiencing some of this) that benzos, particularly clonazepam may induce depression.
However...I have to concur with whoever said benzo+Stim+SSRI is the best combo I've had to date.
For me ECT worked great. I had 6-8 treatments, (right unilateral) and was doing very well. After 5 months the effect dissipated. I am now considering maintenance ECT. My doc suggests starting once a week for 3 weeks and then continuing to spread it out until once every 2 months for maintenace. The only impairment I had was from the anesthesia. No memory problems at all. Some day's I even went to work after a treatment (which was highly ill advised by my doc). I guess everyone is different in how they respond to all this stuff.
I'm interested in the opiate thing. After all morphine was the treatment of choice for depression at one time.
Scott
Posted by jerrympls on May 20, 2005, at 17:26:21
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » jerrympls, posted by Bob on May 20, 2005, at 12:55:29
>
> >
> > After I graduated college in 1995 - I was in bed for 2 years. Then, I got put on an SSRI + Stim combo and worked for 2 years then slumped back into depression. I finally moved to MN about 5 years ago and have been working ever since - however, my depression has taken a toll on my work attendance. I got protection under the ADA and FLMA through our Disability Services dept. which allowed me to take 12 weeks off last summer for another med change. However, since October 2004 when I went back to work, I've missed on average at least 1 day /week. Fortunately my employer has been accomodating allowing me to make up missed time, etc. Now, I'm seriously thinking about going to grad school.
> > >
>
> >
> > Hope this helps!
>
>
>
> It sounds like you're a real fighter. To be having that much trouble and still be able to move to different states and contemplate going to grad school is impressive. Personally, I'm on disability, and can't imagine working right now. I was missing at least a day a week before I stopped working, and had to do everything I could to hide it.
>
> Good luck in whatever you do. Oh, and thanks for answering all my questions!
>
>I never thought I could move and hold a 9 to 5 job either. 4 years ago when I moved here and got a job it was easy to hide my depression. But, in the past couple years it's been VERY difficult. I finally couldn't hide it or pretend anymore. I even applied for short-term disability and was declined!! Luckily, my manager also has depression and has been very understanding. However, 9 to 5 isn't what I want to do with my life. I want to perform music (that's what my degree is in). So, a return to grad school for my master's in music performance makes sense to me. I can barely make it through a week working.
I guess we just keep chugging along....
Posted by Bob on May 20, 2005, at 17:44:37
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Bob, posted by jerrympls on May 20, 2005, at 17:26:21
>
> I never thought I could move and hold a 9 to 5 job either. 4 years ago when I moved here and got a job it was easy to hide my depression. But, in the past couple years it's been VERY difficult. I finally couldn't hide it or pretend anymore. I even applied for short-term disability and was declined!! Luckily, my manager also has depression and has been very understanding. However, 9 to 5 isn't what I want to do with my life. I want to perform music (that's what my degree is in). So, a return to grad school for my master's in music performance makes sense to me. I can barely make it through a week working.
>
> I guess we just keep chugging along....
>It was very difficult for me to get approved for my disability. I was really lucky.
Yeah, so far, I'm still chugging along.
Posted by jerrympls on May 20, 2005, at 18:06:53
In reply to Re: ECT failure?, posted by Mr.Scott on May 20, 2005, at 17:14:58
> Has anyone considered the timeline of their depresion and where their benzodiazepine usage was at that time?
>
> I have certainly heard (and may be experiencing some of this) that benzos, particularly clonazepam may induce depression.
>
> However...I have to concur with whoever said benzo+Stim+SSRI is the best combo I've had to date.
>
> For me ECT worked great. I had 6-8 treatments, (right unilateral) and was doing very well. After 5 months the effect dissipated. I am now considering maintenance ECT. My doc suggests starting once a week for 3 weeks and then continuing to spread it out until once every 2 months for maintenace. The only impairment I had was from the anesthesia. No memory problems at all. Some day's I even went to work after a treatment (which was highly ill advised by my doc). I guess everyone is different in how they respond to all this stuff.
>
> I'm interested in the opiate thing. After all morphine was the treatment of choice for depression at one time.
>
> ScottScott- I have heard many successful stories like yours involving maintenance ECT treatment. I'm so glad that you don't have the memory problems. I would go for the maintenance treatments especially if the ECT helped you for 5 months before it pooped out.
My doc has me on benzo+stim+ssri+opiate (hydrocodone) now and it's been the best combo so far for me. I wish I didn't have to reply on a stimulant to get me up and going - it's scary to know that if I don't take my stimulant that I'll just sit on the couch all day or sleep and escape from the world. But, until we find something better I'll keep taking it to keep me going.
Opiate therapy is used more than people know. Mainly at bigger teaching hospitals/universities where they experiment with a lot of off-lable stuff and help drug companies conduct clinical trials. The University of Minnesota is one such place. Even though I see a resident, his attending ok'ed the opiate trials - and I'm not the only one. I found out that a handful of the staff psychiatrists on faculty who are involved with depression research/treatment have tried opiate treatments with other patients - some successful and others not. So far I've been a success. It's been Since December 2004 when I began the opiate and to date I have NO tolerance issues nor do I feel the need to increase the dosage or take more than what the doc prescribed.
It wasn't easy getting to the point where I am with doctors willing to try opiates - and it's not a cure-all - but it helps a lot.
Jerry
Posted by Bob on May 20, 2005, at 18:12:28
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Mr.Scott, posted by jerrympls on May 20, 2005, at 18:06:53
>
> My doc has me on benzo+stim+ssri+opiate (hydrocodone) now and it's been the best combo so far for me. I wish I didn't have to reply on a stimulant to get me up and going - it's scary to know that if I don't take my stimulant that I'll just sit on the couch all day or sleep and escape from the world. But, until we find something better I'll keep taking it to keep me going.
>
> Opiate therapy is used more than people know. Mainly at bigger teaching hospitals/universities where they experiment with a lot of off-lable stuff and help drug companies conduct clinical trials. The University of Minnesota is one such place. Even though I see a resident, his attending ok'ed the opiate trials - and I'm not the only one. I found out that a handful of the staff psychiatrists on faculty who are involved with depression research/treatment have tried opiate treatments with other patients - some successful and others not. So far I've been a success. It's been Since December 2004 when I began the opiate and to date I have NO tolerance issues nor do I feel the need to increase the dosage or take more than what the doc prescribed.
>
> It wasn't easy getting to the point where I am with doctors willing to try opiates - and it's not a cure-all - but it helps a lot.
>
> JerryJerry:
What exactly does opiate treatment do? Does it address anxiety, or give people energy and motivation, or what? I would figure that opiates would knock me out and have me sleeping all day.
Bob
Posted by Bob on May 20, 2005, at 18:16:07
In reply to Re: ECT failure?, posted by Mr.Scott on May 20, 2005, at 17:14:58
>
> For me ECT worked great. I had 6-8 treatments, (right unilateral) and was doing very well. After 5 months the effect dissipated. I am now considering maintenance ECT. My doc suggests starting once a week for 3 weeks and then continuing to spread it out until once every 2 months for maintenace. The only impairment I had was from the anesthesia. No memory problems at all. Some day's I even went to work after a treatment (which was highly ill advised by my doc). I guess everyone is different in how they respond to all this stuff.
>
> ScottScott:
I would definitely recommend that you restart the ECT if it worked that well for you. Needless to say, my experience with ECT has not been nearly as good. I'm going in for my 17th treatment next week, and I'm not sure it's doing anything but making me worse any longer. I'm going to ask my doctors once again how much longer I should be trying it, but I'm afraid I'll be stopping soon. Problem is, I just don't know what I'll do next. I hate the meds so much I can't even put it into words.
Bob
Posted by ed_uk on May 20, 2005, at 18:23:29
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Mr.Scott, posted by jerrympls on May 20, 2005, at 18:06:53
Hi Jerry,
Did you stop Lunesta?
Kind regards,
Ed.PS. Did you sleep any better on oxycodone than on hydrocodone?
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 20, 2005, at 18:28:04
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Mr.Scott, posted by Bob on May 20, 2005, at 18:16:07
Hi,
Are you doing unilateral or bilateral? Any other meds on board?
Scott
Posted by 4WD on May 21, 2005, at 0:17:10
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Mr.Scott, posted by Bob on May 20, 2005, at 18:16:07
>
>
>
>
>
> Scott:
>
> I would definitely recommend that you restart the ECT if it worked that well for you. Needless to say, my experience with ECT has not been nearly as good. I'm going in for my 17th treatment next week, and I'm not sure it's doing anything but making me worse any longer. I'm going to ask my doctors once again how much longer I should be trying it, but I'm afraid I'll be stopping soon. Problem is, I just don't know what I'll do next. I hate the meds so much I can't even put it into words.
>
> BobBob,
Have you considered the VNS implant? Some people have gotten really good results. And then there's the DBS (deep brain stimulation) treatment that's being tested now. Have you seen an endocrinologist?
I guess my point is, don't give up. There are new drugs every month it seems and new treatments.
Hang in there.
Marsha
Posted by Bob on May 21, 2005, at 10:25:45
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Bob, posted by Mr.Scott on May 20, 2005, at 18:28:04
> Hi,
>
> Are you doing unilateral or bilateral? Any other meds on board?
>
> Scott
I think something like the first 3 of my 16 treatments so far were unilateral. After that they have been bilateral. After the first couple treatments, 450mg of Li was added, as well as something like .25mg of Clonazepam a couple times per day. Then the Clonazepam was taken away. It was taken away due to concerns with muscle discomfort and a rash, but I had a "breakdown of sorts after my 15th treatment in the beginning of May. Nobody really knows why, but I feel like it may have been the withdrawl of the minute amounts of Clonazepam. The doctors don't think it was a reaction to the ECT itself, although I have my doubts about that. I'm taking Ativan now, and I had another treatment last Wednesday. I am quite leery of what is going down here, as on most days I feel anxious and depressed in the mornings (and sometimes for most of the day), and then feel a little better in the late evening and night. Then, it starts all over again the next day. I also spend many days feeling drowsy and tired, when I'm not feeling anxious and depressed, which causes me to hesitate adding more Ativan and Li to the mix.Crazy, huh?
Posted by Bob on May 21, 2005, at 10:33:05
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Bob, posted by 4WD on May 21, 2005, at 0:17:10
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Scott:
> >
> > I would definitely recommend that you restart the ECT if it worked that well for you. Needless to say, my experience with ECT has not been nearly as good. I'm going in for my 17th treatment next week, and I'm not sure it's doing anything but making me worse any longer. I'm going to ask my doctors once again how much longer I should be trying it, but I'm afraid I'll be stopping soon. Problem is, I just don't know what I'll do next. I hate the meds so much I can't even put it into words.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Bob,
>
> Have you considered the VNS implant? Some people have gotten really good results. And then there's the DBS (deep brain stimulation) treatment that's being tested now. Have you seen an endocrinologist?
>
> I guess my point is, don't give up. There are new drugs every month it seems and new treatments.
>
> Hang in there.
>
> Marsha
>
>Thanks for the encouragement, Marsha. I was actually involved in a VNS study here at the University of Maryland, until it fell apart financially, and the chance to actually get the device disappeared. That lasted a couple years, actually, where I would go down there every couple weeks and answer questions and fill out forms. I guess if that thing gets officially approved, I might be able to get it put in, but the percentage of people who respond to the device doesn't seem very encouraging - I think it's under 20%. I also wouldn't want to go through surgery to get a device implanted and then have it cause and episode of panic and suicidality. Not that it necessarily would, but I haven't had real good luck so far.
As far the the DBS is concerned, I think it would be very difficult to get this, as it is only offered in studies, as far as I know, and getting in those studies is can be quite difficult. I guess we'll see.
BTW, what new medecines are you talking about that are coming out?
Posted by jerrympls on May 21, 2005, at 12:57:15
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » jerrympls, posted by ed_uk on May 20, 2005, at 18:23:29
> Hi Jerry,
>
> Did you stop Lunesta?
>
> Kind regards,
> Ed.
>
> PS. Did you sleep any better on oxycodone than on hydrocodone?Hi Ed-
Lunesta doesn't seem to be helping much and the doc won't prescribe me two opiates.
Posted by ed_uk on May 21, 2005, at 13:06:10
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » ed_uk, posted by jerrympls on May 21, 2005, at 12:57:15
Hi Jerry,
I'm sorry to hear that :-(
Ed.
Posted by 4WD on May 21, 2005, at 14:21:57
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » 4WD, posted by Bob on May 21, 2005, at 10:33:05
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Scott:
> > >
> > > I would definitely recommend that you restart the ECT if it worked that well for you. Needless to say, my experience with ECT has not been nearly as good. I'm going in for my 17th treatment next week, and I'm not sure it's doing anything but making me worse any longer. I'm going to ask my doctors once again how much longer I should be trying it, but I'm afraid I'll be stopping soon. Problem is, I just don't know what I'll do next. I hate the meds so much I can't even put it into words.
> > >
> > > Bob
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > Have you considered the VNS implant? Some people have gotten really good results. And then there's the DBS (deep brain stimulation) treatment that's being tested now. Have you seen an endocrinologist?
> >
> > I guess my point is, don't give up. There are new drugs every month it seems and new treatments.
> >
> > Hang in there.
> >
> > Marsha
> >
> >
>
> Thanks for the encouragement, Marsha. I was actually involved in a VNS study here at the University of Maryland, until it fell apart financially, and the chance to actually get the device disappeared. That lasted a couple years, actually, where I would go down there every couple weeks and answer questions and fill out forms. I guess if that thing gets officially approved, I might be able to get it put in, but the percentage of people who respond to the device doesn't seem very encouraging - I think it's under 20%. I also wouldn't want to go through surgery to get a device implanted and then have it cause and episode of panic and suicidality. Not that it necessarily would, but I haven't had real good luck so far.
>
> As far the the DBS is concerned, I think it would be very difficult to get this, as it is only offered in studies, as far as I know, and getting in those studies is can be quite difficult. I guess we'll see.
>
> BTW, what new medecines are you talking about that are coming out?
>
Well, while it didn't work for me, Cymbalta is new. And the selegiline patch is apparently pretty close to being available. And there are several drugs that are not available in this country (yet) that might be of benefit. Like Stablon. There's another I can't remember the name of but it's a serotonin reuptake accelerator. It's possible your doctor could prescribe something like that for you and you could try it legally. (Dr. Bob I am specifically trying not to suggest ordering meds not legal here. But if his doctor prescribes it and he gets it from abroad, isn't that legal?)There are so many people here who have tried so many drugs and combinations of drugs and after almost giving up hope finally FINALLY found something that worked. I know it's hard to keep hope up when you are severely depressed. And I feel especially frustrated when people (friends, family ) offer well meaning suggestions that I know in my heart haven't worked for me (go for a brisk walk, improve your nutrition, think positive thoughts). But we do want to be here for you. I guess we all wish we could fix it for each other even if we can't fix it for ourselves.
Marsha
Posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2005, at 16:56:22
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Bob, posted by 4WD on May 21, 2005, at 14:21:57
After being a nurse and helping other people, it's very theraputic to think I might help someone here even if it's just to add support. I wouldn't even consider recommending a med combo. I leave that to the med experts. Right Ed, and SLS, Chemist, to name a few. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by jerrympls on May 21, 2005, at 17:02:13
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » 4WD, posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2005, at 16:56:22
> After being a nurse and helping other people, it's very theraputic to think I might help someone here even if it's just to add support. I wouldn't even consider recommending a med combo. I leave that to the med experts. Right Ed, and SLS, Chemist, to name a few. Fondly, Phillipa
hey! I want to be a med expert! (heheeh)
Actually I studied biological psychology in college. Perhaps I should post more. ;-)
Jerry
Posted by jerrympls on May 21, 2005, at 17:08:57
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » jerrympls, posted by Bob on May 20, 2005, at 18:12:28
>
> Jerry:
>
> What exactly does opiate treatment do? Does it address anxiety, or give people energy and motivation, or what? I would figure that opiates would knock me out and have me sleeping all day.
>
> Bob
>
>For me, opiate therapy helps tremendously with:
- Social fears/anxiety
- General Anxiety
- Motivation (apathy, lethargy)
- Anhedonia
- Energy
- Mood improvement ( better general sense of well-being)I know many people with treatment-resistant depression who resort to self-medicating with opiates because they are the only meds that help them feel "normal" or close to it.
It depends on how you respond to opiates. Some opiates put me to sleep and some - like hydrocodone (opiate in Vicodin) acts more like a stimulant. My doc tried me on Oxycontin first and that really made me foggy and sleepy.
I take 5mg 4x daily. I do not feel a "high" or extreme euphoria. I just feel closer to "normal." I have not had any problems with abuse or tolerance.
I always like to add that opiate treatment is not a cure-all. But, it's what works for me right now until something better comes along.
Jerry
Posted by ed_uk on May 21, 2005, at 17:13:21
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Bob, posted by jerrympls on May 21, 2005, at 17:08:57
Hi Jerry,
Why won't your pdoc let you take hydro three times a day and oxy at night? It seems logical since there is no drug interaction.
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on May 21, 2005, at 17:22:34
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Bob, posted by jerrympls on May 21, 2005, at 17:08:57
PS. Sorry to repeat myself, I hope you're not annoyed with me. Did you sleep well on oxycodone? If so, oxycodone would be a simpler option than Xyrem. I know you don't want to 'push' your doc too far but it might be worth it just this once.
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by jerrympls on May 21, 2005, at 17:35:52
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » jerrympls, posted by ed_uk on May 21, 2005, at 17:13:21
> Hi Jerry,
>
> Why won't your pdoc let you take hydro three times a day and oxy at night? It seems logical since there is no drug interaction.
>
> Kind regards,
> Ed.Nope. Plain and simple.
Posted by jerrympls on May 21, 2005, at 17:38:20
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » jerrympls, posted by ed_uk on May 21, 2005, at 17:22:34
> PS. Sorry to repeat myself, I hope you're not annoyed with me. Did you sleep well on oxycodone? If so, oxycodone would be a simpler option than Xyrem. I know you don't want to 'push' your doc too far but it might be worth it just this once.
>
> Kind regards,
> Ed.
>
>Well, I am seeing a sleep doc to sort out my insomnia. I think being on an opiate off-lable it stretching it already and adding ANOTHER opiate would be WAY WAY over the line. Yes, it would probably help - but I'm afraid to push the issue. It took me forever just to get on the one opiate.
However, I do see your point.
Posted by ed_uk on May 21, 2005, at 17:51:30
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » ed_uk, posted by jerrympls on May 21, 2005, at 17:38:20
I'm sorry Jerry I didn't mean to offend you :-(
Posted by jerrympls on May 21, 2005, at 18:15:13
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » jerrympls, posted by ed_uk on May 21, 2005, at 17:51:30
> I'm sorry Jerry I didn't mean to offend you :-(
>
>Ed- OH NO NO NO! Sorry if my reply came out that way. I was just trying to say that my doc wouldn't go for adding another opiate "plain & simple." Sorry about that!!!
Jerry :-)
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