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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by yesac on June 7, 2005, at 12:30:15
I just was wondering... Does anyone here who has NOT been diagnosed with ADD but does have a mood disorder have attention problems? I'm just wondering how common attention/concentration problems are in mood disorders. Are the attention problems not present when your mood is okay?
Posted by PM80 on June 7, 2005, at 13:22:07
In reply to ADD versus mood disorders, posted by yesac on June 7, 2005, at 12:30:15
I get very restless when I am hypomanic if I have to sit down and do anything that doesn't FULLY capture my interest. I can have a conversation with someone or be in a meeting and have another whole train of thought going on, sometimes losing track of what is actually going on, but usually just flipping around a lot in my mind. But I do think that all in all, there is a distinct difference between ADD and bipolar. ADD alone does not have many of the symptoms that are almost always necessary to diagnose as bipolar. But bipolar does encompass many of the ADD symptoms. I am not diagnosed as ADD, but am dx'ed as bipolar.
Also interesting - it is now being found that kids diagnosed with ADD have a much greater chance of developing bipolar as an adult than kids never diagnosed with ADD. That raises all sorts or questions and hypotheses.
Hope this helps.
Posted by banga on June 7, 2005, at 14:59:02
In reply to ADD versus mood disorders, posted by yesac on June 7, 2005, at 12:30:15
Hi,
one of the 9 official symptoms for depression states :
"diminished ability to think, concentrate, or indeciciveness, nearly every day... (either by subjective account or as observed by others.)"Most pdocs believe that this is of the last symptoms to lift when depression starts to remit.
Posted by yesac on June 7, 2005, at 15:10:09
In reply to Re: ADD versus mood disorders, posted by banga on June 7, 2005, at 14:59:02
> one of the 9 official symptoms for depression states :
> "diminished ability to think, concentrate, or indeciciveness, nearly every day... (either by subjective account or as observed by others.)"
>Thanks. I do know that it's one of the diagnostic criteria, but I was just interested in people's personal experiences--- which I believe are often very different from *diagnostic criteria*.
I am curious about the overlap, too, between ADD and mood disorders and anxiety disorders.
Posted by yesac on June 7, 2005, at 15:18:04
In reply to Re: ADD versus mood disorders, posted by PM80 on June 7, 2005, at 13:22:07
Thanks, that does help... Do you have any of those attn-deficit type problems when you're NOT hypomanic? Just curious.
>
> Also interesting - it is now being found that kids diagnosed with ADD have a much greater chance of developing bipolar as an adult than kids never diagnosed with ADD. That raises all sorts or questions and hypotheses.
My theory on that would be that the kids were misdiagnosed with ADD, and that their symptoms were actually prodromal bipolar symptoms. I just did a paper on early-onset bipolar disorder which is informing this theory to some extent. Of course, some of the kids could probably have both. I read somewhere that, like you say, being manic/hypomanic almost necessarily means you have ADD symptoms. Kinda interesting to think about.My psychiatrist says that basically illnesses just aren't as discrete as the DSM (and pharmaceutical companies) would like for us believe. So a person might not really *have* bipolar, anxiety, ADD, whatever... but really just have some big unnamed syndrome that just is what it is and has the symptoms that it has.
Posted by banga on June 7, 2005, at 15:19:32
In reply to Re: ADD versus mood disorders, posted by yesac on June 7, 2005, at 15:10:09
Hi,
I had a feeling you may know but wasn't sure.
For me,
Loss of concentration and attention and memory problems are a large part of my depression; However, ADHD has not been ruled out for me and is still entertained by my pdocs as an adjunct diagnosis.I do also have Anxiety Disorder NOS, with symptoms of generalized, social and OCD (obsessive thought processes).
So I have anxiety, depressive and ADHD disorders---yet I get the most potent relief from small doses of antipsychotics. Go figure.
Posted by linkadge on June 7, 2005, at 15:30:02
In reply to Re: ADD versus mood disorders » PM80, posted by yesac on June 7, 2005, at 15:18:04
Yes bipolar individuals ususally have problems with the frontal cortex, which can exasperate/cause both symptoms of bipolar and ADD.
Not all ADD kids have bipolar as ritalin can make some kids stable as a rock.
For bipolar/ADD kids I would say fish oil is a must as an adjunctive. It is really the only mood stabalizer that has an significant effect on cognition without activating those mind racing PKC enzymes.
Linkadge
Posted by Declan on June 7, 2005, at 15:35:58
In reply to ADD versus mood disorders, posted by yesac on June 7, 2005, at 12:30:15
Of course. I don't have ADD but have both attention and mood problems. Now that you mention it I find it difficult to seperate them. My idea of a good mood involves being able to pay attention if I want. I've been fuzzy for years. No doubt drug use has something to do with it.
Declan
Posted by yesac on June 7, 2005, at 15:46:10
In reply to Re: ADD versus mood disorders, posted by Declan on June 7, 2005, at 15:35:58
> Of course. I don't have ADD but have both attention and mood problems. Now that you mention it I find it difficult to seperate them. My idea of a good mood involves being able to pay attention if I want. I've been fuzzy for years. No doubt drug use has something to do with it.
Which kind of drug use-- legal or illegal? Or both? Just curious.I'm in the same situation, attention problems and mood problems-- having a hard time distinguishing. I can't remember ever being able to pay good attention and not being distracted and impatient. But the attn problems can definitely get worse depending on mood state. I always feel distracted, like I have a million thoughts on my mind and can't calm my mind down. So what is that? Depression, bipolar, ADD? who knows, really?
Posted by yesac on June 7, 2005, at 15:49:28
In reply to ADD versus mood disorders, posted by yesac on June 7, 2005, at 12:30:15
It's unfortunate because a lot of the drugs for bipolar make attn symptoms worse, and attn drugs can make bipolar symptoms worse. So what do you do if you truly have both? Ideally, a mood stablizer would calm someone down, stop racing thoughts and distractability. But if you have ADD or even if you don't, mood stabilizers could make attention problems worse.
I'm afraid that there's no hope for my attention problems, because I haven't had much success with stimulants, they make my mood worse. Plus they don't seem to work. Well I've tried adderall and ritalin.
Posted by PM80 on June 7, 2005, at 15:58:43
In reply to Re: ADD versus mood disorders » PM80, posted by yesac on June 7, 2005, at 15:18:04
>Do you have any of those attn-deficit type problems when you're NOT hypomanic?
Not really. I guess if I'm really depressed (opposite end from hypomania) I'm just not interested, so I tend not to pay attention. I do sometimes have sorta mixed states - this is when it is the worst becuase my mind is going, but I'm just NOT interested. That is when I have a hard time sitting still and working on just one thing. I will work a little on thing, then another, then another, then just wish I were not there, then another, then back...
That said, I did graduate from college with honors with a dbl major, so there definitely is an upside to hypomania, at least for me.
I was never dx'ed with ADD as a kid, but I was definitely very high energy. But I liked school and learning so it captured my attention and I got high grades as a kid. I was always very participatary (is that a word?) - in class, in gym, in whatever. I was kind of a people/adult-pleaser. I talked faster than many of teachers could keep up with when I got excited. Teachers mentioned that I figited a lot. And I could always focus to the absolute exclusion of everything else if I got really into something (usually a book) - which I've heard can be an ADD thing. Yet, I would not say I was ADD, because I could focus when I wanted to.
Posted by PM80 on June 7, 2005, at 16:01:07
In reply to Re: ADD versus mood disorders (nm), posted by PM80 on June 7, 2005, at 16:00:10
Statera is a non-stimulant. It is good for people with both,I've heard.
Posted by Declan on June 7, 2005, at 17:17:38
In reply to Re: ADD versus mood disorders » Declan, posted by yesac on June 7, 2005, at 15:46:10
Well legal certainly (benzos mostly, also methadone, alcohol) but also cannabis. Benzos aren't good for concentration. I had an operation recently and was given a benzo that made me unaware, I suppose, not unconcious I was told. I remember *nothing* beyond its onset. I imagine it could be used to walk someone to their ATM and withdraw the cash.
Someone said something good about their pdr saying that the DSM criteria are misleading in suggesting clear seperation of syndromes, like what whositwhatsit (Andrew Sullivan?) said in The Noonday Demon.
Declan
Posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2005, at 21:35:52
In reply to Re: ADD versus mood disorders, posted by Declan on June 7, 2005, at 17:17:38
I've got that concentration problem, and inability to sit still. Saw pdoc today and she said if I wanted to I could take luvox as I told her about my OCD. Still take the l5 of valium too. I must be like a horse. Nothing puts me down. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by yesac on June 7, 2005, at 21:37:05
In reply to Re: ADD versus mood disorders, posted by Declan on June 7, 2005, at 17:17:38
> Someone said something good about their pdr saying that the DSM criteria are misleading in suggesting clear seperation of syndromes, like what whositwhatsit (Andrew Sullivan?) said in The Noonday Demon.Yeah I was mentioning that in a post in this thread. It's a good point I think.
Andrew Soloman wrote that book. I read it but I can't remember him talking about there not being a clear separation of syndromes. Maybe I should look at it again. Good book, lots of information.
Posted by SLS on June 8, 2005, at 6:15:56
In reply to ADD versus mood disorders, posted by yesac on June 7, 2005, at 12:30:15
> I just was wondering... Does anyone here who has NOT been diagnosed with ADD but does have a mood disorder have attention problems? I'm just wondering how common attention/concentration problems are in mood disorders. Are the attention problems not present when your mood is okay?
I have bipolar disorder, stuck in the depressive phase. My cognitive impairments have been so impaired as to have two doctors describe them as dementia. Dementia is one of the most prominent of my symptoms.
"Dementia" is a generic term that describes impairments in mental function. Alzheimers Disease is only one illness for which dementia manifests. There are others. Dementia is a symptom and not a disorder.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=dementia
So in answer to your question, depression can produce impairments of concentration and memory all by itself and in the absence of ADD.
- Scott
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