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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 55. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by dog on June 3, 2005, at 9:02:47
Does anyone out there know of a case where a person had been diagnosed with Depression then later was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis?
Posted by Maxime on June 3, 2005, at 15:37:32
In reply to Depression and Multiple Sclerosis, posted by dog on June 3, 2005, at 9:02:47
> Does anyone out there know of a case where a person had been diagnosed with Depression then later was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis?
Yes, me. The two are related. But MS can take some time to manifest itself enough to get the diagnosis. I was getting some of the symptoms for several years. I would go to the doctor and they just thought I was making things up etc. It wasn't until I had a full blown attack that everything came together.
Maxime
Posted by dog on June 3, 2005, at 15:59:32
In reply to Re: Depression and Multiple Sclerosis » dog, posted by Maxime on June 3, 2005, at 15:37:32
> > Does anyone out there know of a case where a person had been diagnosed with Depression then later was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis?
>
> Yes, me. The two are related. But MS can take some time to manifest itself enough to get the diagnosis. I was getting some of the symptoms for several years. I would go to the doctor and they just thought I was making things up etc. It wasn't until I had a full blown attack that everything came together.
>
> MaximeMaxime, thank you!
how long ago did you first experience symptoms of MS? and, when were you first diagnosed as having MS?
with me, i think i started having symptoms at least in the mid-1980s. i was only recently diagnosed thru MRIs and also a positive lumbar puncture in Jan. 2005.
do you think this is possible? the Dr.s i have spoken with, don't seem to agree.
dog
Posted by Maxime on June 3, 2005, at 17:44:58
In reply to Re: Depression and Multiple Sclerosis, posted by dog on June 3, 2005, at 15:59:32
Do I think it's possible that you started to experience symptoms in the 1980's and it took this long to be diagnosed? Yes, absolutely. When you experience the symptoms one by one, you brush them aside. Although some are very weird. I don't care what the doctors say. You know your body. You know what you were feeling. Besides, they were the ones who wouldn't listen to me for two years!
I was having symptoms for 10 years before I was diagnosed at 30 years of age.
I remember one night I couldn't walk in a straight line. It was like I was drunk. I went to the ER and they accused me of taking an OD of some sort. I told them to test my blood and see if they find any drugs, but they just sent me home. It was awful. I can't believe I was treated that way.
So yes, I believe you.
Maxime
> > > Does anyone out there know of a case where a person had been diagnosed with Depression then later was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis?
> >
> > Yes, me. The two are related. But MS can take some time to manifest itself enough to get the diagnosis. I was getting some of the symptoms for several years. I would go to the doctor and they just thought I was making things up etc. It wasn't until I had a full blown attack that everything came together.
> >
> > Maxime
>
> Maxime, thank you!
>
> how long ago did you first experience symptoms of MS? and, when were you first diagnosed as having MS?
>
> with me, i think i started having symptoms at least in the mid-1980s. i was only recently diagnosed thru MRIs and also a positive lumbar puncture in Jan. 2005.
>
> do you think this is possible? the Dr.s i have spoken with, don't seem to agree.
>
> dog
>
>
Posted by eugenia on June 4, 2005, at 22:20:33
In reply to Re: Depression and Multiple Sclerosis » dog, posted by Maxime on June 3, 2005, at 17:44:58
Hi:
I was misdiagnosed--I hope--with MS and have a long history of depression. I had an MRI taken for another reason and they found some hyperintensities. I had a little problem with my leg being weak, but I also have bulging disks. Had a follow up lumbar puncture that was negative. So, for now, I am MS free. But, I did give myself Copaxone for three months. I have heard that there is a coorelation between the two disorders. Especially bipolar depression. Good luck with everything, I know that they are making so many advances in treatment these days.
Posted by dog on June 7, 2005, at 13:55:31
In reply to Re: Depression and Multiple Sclerosis, posted by eugenia on June 4, 2005, at 22:20:33
i think my symptoms started a long time ago. i remember feeling sick and lousy a log. i am taking tylenol #3s w/ codeine and they are making me feel woozy. i have a lot of pain.
is anyone else taking 2 cymbaltas a day?
i am the only one in my family (wife, 10 yr. old daughter, and me) earning a paycheck and am scared witless most of the time.
> Hi:
> I was misdiagnosed--I hope--with MS and have a long history of depression. I had an MRI taken for another reason and they found some hyperintensities. I had a little problem with my leg being weak, but I also have bulging disks. Had a follow up lumbar puncture that was negative. So, for now, I am MS free. But, I did give myself Copaxone for three months. I have heard that there is a coorelation between the two disorders. Especially bipolar depression. Good luck with everything, I know that they are making so many advances in treatment these days.
Posted by dog on June 7, 2005, at 15:13:51
In reply to Re: Depression and Multiple Sclerosis » dog, posted by Maxime on June 3, 2005, at 17:44:58
i am so tired i feel i can't go on. i can barely keep my eyes open. i am sick and tired. the drugs i am taking seem to make me want to give up.
do you ever feel that way? my attitude is weakening and i am not altogether happy.
i have to meet with my boss tomorrow and am dreading it immensely.
Posted by dog on June 8, 2005, at 12:13:24
In reply to Despair and Attitude » Maxime, posted by dog on June 7, 2005, at 15:13:51
> i am so tired i feel i can't go on. i can barely keep my eyes open. i am sick and tired. the drugs i am taking seem to make me want to give up.
> do you ever feel that way? my attitude is weakening and i am not altogether happy.
> i have to meet with my boss tomorrow and am dreading it immensely.sorry about above post or even the last several posts... i don't meant to bum everyone out. i am feeling better today. stress really gets to me sometimes. also, i am in downstate illinois and not very sophisticated when it comes to making conversation on the internet. sorry.
Posted by Maxime on June 8, 2005, at 17:25:32
In reply to Despair and Attitude » Maxime, posted by dog on June 7, 2005, at 15:13:51
> i am so tired i feel i can't go on. i can barely keep my eyes open. i am sick and tired. the drugs i am taking seem to make me want to give up.
> do you ever feel that way? my attitude is weakening and i am not altogether happy.
> i have to meet with my boss tomorrow and am dreading it immensely.Yes. I get that way. I get angry to. I only take drugs for my MS when I am having an episode though. I try not to think about it.
I'm sorry you are having such a rough time. Hang in there. What type of MS do you have?
Maxime
Posted by dog on June 9, 2005, at 11:43:17
In reply to Re: Despair and Attitude » dog, posted by Maxime on June 8, 2005, at 17:25:32
> Yes. I get that way. I get angry to. I only take drugs for my MS when I am having an episode though. I try not to think about it.
>
> I'm sorry you are having such a rough time. Hang in there. What type of MS do you have?
>
> MaximeMaxime: i have Secondary Progressive MS. i was just diagnosed and i am 45. its not good, but they think they caught it early. i was having "Recurring/Remitting", but now its the Secondary Progressive.
i am taking Rebif injections (beta interferon) 3x per week.... i am on the full dose now which is 44 mcg.
what kind of drug do you take and how do you know for sure you are having a recurrence?
dog
Posted by Maxime on June 9, 2005, at 16:33:16
In reply to Re: Despair and Attitude, posted by dog on June 9, 2005, at 11:43:17
Hi. I have recurring/remitting. The first thing that tells me I am having an episode is my vision and then I lose it competely in my left eye. Next comes the painful shocks up and down my back. Loss of balance .... you know the rest. I pray that mine stays as recurring/remitting. It is possible. You know some people have MS and they don't even know it. Or some people have only one attack and that's it. I have had 4 in the past 6 years. 4 full blown attacks. I was experiencing little "components" way before that as we already discussed.
I am very sorry that yours progressed. You can babble mail me anytime you want to talk. I'll keep you in my prayers.
hugs,
Maxime> > Yes. I get that way. I get angry to. I only take drugs for my MS when I am having an episode though. I try not to think about it.
> >
> > I'm sorry you are having such a rough time. Hang in there. What type of MS do you have?
> >
> > Maxime
>
> Maxime: i have Secondary Progressive MS. i was just diagnosed and i am 45. its not good, but they think they caught it early. i was having "Recurring/Remitting", but now its the Secondary Progressive.
> i am taking Rebif injections (beta interferon) 3x per week.... i am on the full dose now which is 44 mcg.
> what kind of drug do you take and how do you know for sure you are having a recurrence?
> dog
Posted by Maxime on June 9, 2005, at 16:34:55
In reply to Re: Despair and Attitude, posted by dog on June 9, 2005, at 11:43:17
Oh I forgot mention I go for the injections when I am having an attack. Nothing when I am not. When you had recurring/relasping what med did you take if any?
Maxime
> > Yes. I get that way. I get angry to. I only take drugs for my MS when I am having an episode though. I try not to think about it.
> >
> > I'm sorry you are having such a rough time. Hang in there. What type of MS do you have?
> >
> > Maxime
>
> Maxime: i have Secondary Progressive MS. i was just diagnosed and i am 45. its not good, but they think they caught it early. i was having "Recurring/Remitting", but now its the Secondary Progressive.
> i am taking Rebif injections (beta interferon) 3x per week.... i am on the full dose now which is 44 mcg.
> what kind of drug do you take and how do you know for sure you are having a recurrence?
> dog
Posted by dog on June 9, 2005, at 16:44:27
In reply to Re: Despair and Attitude » dog, posted by Maxime on June 9, 2005, at 16:33:16
there are people who are doing fine after 30 yrs. of being diagnosed, so i am sure things will go fine for you. remember you have two things statistically going for you: you are woman and you were diagnosed before 40. i am just the opposite.
Depression, Fatigue, pain, weakness, clumsiness, are some of the things i am fighting now. i am missing alot of work. i just get so tired.
did you ever do the steroid thing? i was given 3 doses of IV steroids in my home and then took prednisone orally for 10 days. it really messed me up. i was hyper, and then i was so tired i could not get up. some people can do fine w/ steroids, but not me. they really freaked me out. the Rebif isn't too bad. i have gotten used to it pretty well, except that the depression has worsened. thus the two cymbaltas a day.
before i became a Christian in 1980, i used to do drugs: speed, acid, marijuana, coke, etc., now i am afraid to take painkillers for the pain and the things to make me less tired like stimulants.
Posted by dog on June 9, 2005, at 16:52:03
In reply to Re: Despair and Attitude, posted by Maxime on June 9, 2005, at 16:34:55
> Oh I forgot mention I go for the injections when I am having an attack. Nothing when I am not. When you had recurring/relasping what med did you take if any?
>
> Maxime
i was just diagnosed for sure in jan/2005, so this is all i have known. it is recurring/remitting because i was given an MRI in 2003, but a subsequent one, i was told, showed it was not getting worse. then, in fall 2004, i fell really hard and broke some ribs and had another MRI and the neurologist said the one that i was told that showed it wasn't getting worse actually was and so i had a 3 hour MRI... then a Dec. 2004 lumbar puncture, then Jan 2005 the results showed positive MS also.
i also went to Anthony Reder at the Univ. of Chicago and he agreed it was Secondary Progressive. my neuro is here in Peoria, IL but i wish i could see Dr. Reder on a regular basis, but its so far.
>
> > > Yes. I get that way. I get angry to. I only take drugs for my MS when I am having an episode though. I try not to think about it.
> > >
> > > I'm sorry you are having such a rough time. Hang in there. What type of MS do you have?
> > >
> > > Maxime
> >
> > Maxime: i have Secondary Progressive MS. i was just diagnosed and i am 45. its not good, but they think they caught it early. i was having "Recurring/Remitting", but now its the Secondary Progressive.
> > i am taking Rebif injections (beta interferon) 3x per week.... i am on the full dose now which is 44 mcg.
> > what kind of drug do you take and how do you know for sure you are having a recurrence?
> > dog
>
>
Posted by Maxime on June 9, 2005, at 17:36:00
In reply to Re: Despair and Attitude, posted by dog on June 9, 2005, at 16:44:27
I couldn't do the steroids because I am bipolar type 2 and I knew it would make me wild. So I didn't even go there.
Maxime
> there are people who are doing fine after 30 yrs. of being diagnosed, so i am sure things will go fine for you. remember you have two things statistically going for you: you are woman and you were diagnosed before 40. i am just the opposite.
> Depression, Fatigue, pain, weakness, clumsiness, are some of the things i am fighting now. i am missing alot of work. i just get so tired.
> did you ever do the steroid thing? i was given 3 doses of IV steroids in my home and then took prednisone orally for 10 days. it really messed me up. i was hyper, and then i was so tired i could not get up. some people can do fine w/ steroids, but not me. they really freaked me out. the Rebif isn't too bad. i have gotten used to it pretty well, except that the depression has worsened. thus the two cymbaltas a day.
> before i became a Christian in 1980, i used to do drugs: speed, acid, marijuana, coke, etc., now i am afraid to take painkillers for the pain and the things to make me less tired like stimulants.
>
Posted by Maxime on June 9, 2005, at 17:40:47
In reply to Re: Despair and Attitude, posted by dog on June 9, 2005, at 16:52:03
You see, that is why it's possible that you were had MS for 10 prior to 2003. Because 2 years is such a short time for it to progress. It's not impossible, but I am sure that you had it as early as you say you did.
I suffered depression and a child and a teen. So the depression comes biochemically and from the MS. Ugh, so complicated. But then in my 20's the mood swings start and I was eventually diagnoses with BP2.
The fatigue is AWFUL. Sounds weird to say that sometimes it's the worse part.
Maxime
> > Oh I forgot mention I go for the injections when I am having an attack. Nothing when I am not. When you had recurring/relasping what med did you take if any?
> >
> > Maxime
> i was just diagnosed for sure in jan/2005, so this is all i have known. it is recurring/remitting because i was given an MRI in 2003, but a subsequent one, i was told, showed it was not getting worse. then, in fall 2004, i fell really hard and broke some ribs and had another MRI and the neurologist said the one that i was told that showed it wasn't getting worse actually was and so i had a 3 hour MRI... then a Dec. 2004 lumbar puncture, then Jan 2005 the results showed positive MS also.
> i also went to Anthony Reder at the Univ. of Chicago and he agreed it was Secondary Progressive. my neuro is here in Peoria, IL but i wish i could see Dr. Reder on a regular basis, but its so far.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > > > Yes. I get that way. I get angry to. I only take drugs for my MS when I am having an episode though. I try not to think about it.
> > > >
> > > > I'm sorry you are having such a rough time. Hang in there. What type of MS do you have?
> > > >
> > > > Maxime
> > >
> > > Maxime: i have Secondary Progressive MS. i was just diagnosed and i am 45. its not good, but they think they caught it early. i was having "Recurring/Remitting", but now its the Secondary Progressive.
> > > i am taking Rebif injections (beta interferon) 3x per week.... i am on the full dose now which is 44 mcg.
> > > what kind of drug do you take and how do you know for sure you are having a recurrence?
> > > dog
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by dog on June 10, 2005, at 7:52:51
In reply to Re: Despair and Attitude, posted by Maxime on June 9, 2005, at 17:36:00
i just finished a great book: An Unquiet Mind, by a lady, a PhD in Psych. (can't remember the name) who struggles with BP... i highly recommend. its kind of an autobiography. its a fairly short book. shes also a poet so the writing is really well done and interspersed with poetry.
i don't have the bipolar part, just the depression, but the steroids really gave me an idea what the BP would be like... not good!
i agree the fatigue is sometimes the worst part. i took some amantidine today, but it doesn't seem to help me much but it does clear my sinuses some. the pain is bad too though. i also find myself searching for words more and forgetting things more easily. its scary.
i feel better after writing to you and hearing from you. thank you!
Posted by Maxime on June 13, 2005, at 9:03:05
In reply to Re: Despair and Attitude, posted by dog on June 10, 2005, at 7:52:51
I love that book! It is by Kay Redfield Jamison. I have a copy and I have read it about 10 times!
I'm glad our talk helped. It helped me too. When Cymbalta comes out in Canada next month or so, I plan to try it.
Take care,
Maxime> i just finished a great book: An Unquiet Mind, by a lady, a PhD in Psych. (can't remember the name) who struggles with BP... i highly recommend. its kind of an autobiography. its a fairly short book. shes also a poet so the writing is really well done and interspersed with poetry.
> i don't have the bipolar part, just the depression, but the steroids really gave me an idea what the BP would be like... not good!
> i agree the fatigue is sometimes the worst part. i took some amantidine today, but it doesn't seem to help me much but it does clear my sinuses some. the pain is bad too though. i also find myself searching for words more and forgetting things more easily. its scary.
> i feel better after writing to you and hearing from you. thank you!
>
Posted by dog on June 14, 2005, at 9:17:00
In reply to Re: Despair and Attitude » dog, posted by Maxime on June 13, 2005, at 9:03:05
my brother is in Canada right now. he is studying at a traditional chinese medical school in BC. he has given me some acupuncture treatments awhile back, but they didn't seem to help much. what do you think about the chinese philosophy of medicine?
what is your level of care in Canada? is it pretty good?
what do you think about medical marijuana and MS and what are the laws there regarding marijuana?
here they are very strict. i will not chance it.
Posted by Maxime on June 14, 2005, at 10:54:07
In reply to Alternative Medicine, posted by dog on June 14, 2005, at 9:17:00
Hi.
The level of care is good once you access it ... it's getting to it that is the problem. We also have a shortage of doctors. Many move to the US to work in the private system to earn more money.
Mental health is awful where I live. I live in Montreal and we have to see a psychiatrist according to our postal code! Luckily it doesn't work that way for other specialties. Well there would be an uproar anyway.
People have to wait a long time for elective surgeries. Even cancer patients often have to wait. Wait, wait, wait. I waited 9 months to see a psychiatrist. Also we have to go through our general practioner (GP) to get a referral to see a specialist. There are so many people without a GP that they end up in the ER. So our ERs are overcrowded. You can wait up to 48 hours to see a doctor. I once waited 3 days to get a psych bed.
I've never had acupuncture for my MS.
Our health care is a disaster. But we have good doctors and absolute idiots just like everywhere else!
Maxime
> my brother is in Canada right now. he is studying at a traditional chinese medical school in BC. he has given me some acupuncture treatments awhile back, but they didn't seem to help much. what do you think about the chinese philosophy of medicine?
>
> what is your level of care in Canada? is it pretty good?
>
> what do you think about medical marijuana and MS and what are the laws there regarding marijuana?
> here they are very strict. i will not chance it.
>
>
>
Posted by dog on June 14, 2005, at 13:22:10
In reply to Re: Alternative Medicine, posted by Maxime on June 14, 2005, at 10:54:07
i am very fortunate: i can call my doctors anytime. usually, i just speak to a nurse and tell her/him my problem, but i could call and request to speak to a doctor and soon have one on the line who would call me back. usually, i get an appt., but i have also just walked in several times and saw him.
i could go right now, without calling, and walk in to my Doctor's office (GP) and see him in just a few minutes. Sometimes, i get in so quickly, i don't want to go due to an interest in the waiting room magazines! my insurance is very good. i pay a $10.00 copay per visit.... i'm not exactly sure how much my insurance pays him, but if i don't have $10.00 at that time, i just have them send me a bill.
two weeks ago, i was hurting pretty bad and i called the neuro nurse. my neurologist was gone and the usual neuro nurse (Marianne) wasn't there, but Dennis, another nurse, (i know him by name) asked one of the other doctors who were there and he phoned me in a Rx for tylenol #3s w/ codeine and i simply went to the pharmacy to get it. its kind of a waste though, as i don't really like them... they make me feel kind of sick to my stomach and i feel very drugged.
my neurologist is harder to get to see than my GP, although i can receive immediate attention from his nurse who is a "Multiple Sclerosis Nurse", that is, she has had special additional training in MS. She has a 4 year degree in Nursing (BSN), a Masters Degree in Nursing (MSN) plus additional training in MS. she will call me back almost immediately if i don't get her the 1st time...all i have to do is leave her a msg. it usually takes a few days to a week to see the neurologist.
not everyone has that ease though. some have it more difficult here in the U.S.
when Bill Clinton first came into office in 1992, his wife Hillary began a movement to change to a medical system like Canadas. though it sort of failed, i think we will someday see some radical changes. many don't have insurance and have to rely on the government medicaid system...not sure how bad that is.
i saw another neurologist at the University of Chicago in Chicago for 2nd opinion in Feb. 2005. i brought him copies of my MRI and CT scans... i spent over an hour with him and when i got ready to go he handed me the scans and told me to be careful with them as there were probably over $10,000.00 worth of scans there! this really showed to me how expensive stuff is. i know i should be grateful for what i have and for doctors and technology and things and i am not often that way.
Posted by dog on June 14, 2005, at 13:33:04
In reply to Re: Alternative Medicine, posted by Maxime on June 14, 2005, at 10:54:07
Maxime, you didn't tell me what you thought of medical marijuana and MS... are people in Canada using it for their MS? what are the laws restricting it? here the laws are very strict and so strict i will not chance it! i don't need any more troube than i already have.
Posted by ed_uk on June 14, 2005, at 14:36:00
In reply to Medical Marijuana/ MS / Canada, posted by dog on June 14, 2005, at 13:33:04
Hi Dog,
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=23299
~Ed
Posted by dog on June 14, 2005, at 16:49:27
In reply to Sativex » dog, posted by ed_uk on June 14, 2005, at 14:36:00
> Hi Dog,
>
> http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=23299
>
> ~Ed
>
>Hi Ed,
thanks for the info. do you know anyone who takes it? i wonder where the good old U.S. of A. is situated on the question of this new drug. do you know? we'll probably never see it or at least it would take a lifetime to get approved.
my neurologist, who is over 60, told me he would never prescribe any medical marijuana product as it was too addictive. it is illegal in Illinois, my state, anyway. i think there are a few states that might allow it, but my state of Illinois is pretty conservative.my pain is such that at times it is pretty unbearable. i have taken muscle relaxers and tylenol #3s, but don't like the side effects.
i used to smoke marijuana when i was a kid, but quit when i was 20. i became a born-again christian and gave all the partying up for a much richer existence. now, at 45, with the MS pain and all, i might be tempted to try it again, but i would not do it illegally. as i said before, i have enough trouble right now w/out breaking the law.... i know a guy who was found with 1 pound of it a few years ago and was busted big-time: a felony.
i wonder what other US of A people think? i have heard one can smoke marijuana in Canada w/out fear of prosecution... is this correct?
you Canadian folks have us U.S. people beat on a lot of fronts.
Posted by ed_uk on June 14, 2005, at 18:06:11
In reply to medical marijuana/Sativex/ethics, posted by dog on June 14, 2005, at 16:49:27
Hi Dog,
>.......do you know anyone who takes it?
No, it's not approved in the UK. Nevertheless, about 400 people in the UK are currently being treated with Sativex with the permission of the MHRA - our medicines regulatory agency, a bit like your FDA.
>i wonder where the good old U.S. of A. is situated on the question of this new drug. do you know?
I've no idea!
>.......we'll probably never see it or at least it would take a lifetime to get approved.
I think it might get approved..........Marinol (THC aka dronabinol: the major active ingredient of cannabis) is already approved in the US.
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic2/drona.htm
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic2/drona_ids.htm>........my pain is such that at times it is pretty unbearable.
Do you suffer from neuropathic/nerve pain? Do you suffer from muscle spasm?
For muscle spasm you could try........
Baclofen (Lioresal)
Dantrolene (Dantrium)
Tizanidine (Zanaflex)For neuropathic pain you could try gabapentin (Neurontin). Have you tried it? Oxcarbazepine (Trileptal) might also be helpful.
Does the Tylenol 3 help your pain? What side effects are you having?
>i might be tempted to try it again, but i would not do it illegally........
I would. Having said that, it's unusual for people to get arrested for possession of small quantities of cannabis now that it's been 'downgraded' to a class C drug in the UK.
Kind regards,
Ed.
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