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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Jeroen on August 30, 2009, at 10:56:44
In reply to Re: To SLS » Jeroen, posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 10:52:09
it simply doesnt make me happy and psychosis isnt entirely gone, why take it then? my doctor sais i'm not going to give you Risperdal
Posted by Phillipa on August 30, 2009, at 11:03:20
In reply to Re: To SLS, posted by Jeroen on August 30, 2009, at 10:56:44
Jeroen have you now changed clinics or is this the same doc? Glad your're getting the seroquel XR. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 12:02:00
In reply to Re: To SLS, posted by Jeroen on August 30, 2009, at 10:56:44
> it simply doesnt make me happy and psychosis isnt entirely gone, why take it then? my doctor sais i'm not going to give you Risperdal
I understand completely.
I know it is easy to say and so difficult to do, but try to be patient with the Seroquel. I want to impress upon you that you are not treating depression, where it might take only a few weeks to respond. You are treating a schizoid disorder, which can take MONTHS to respond to treatment.
Good luck. I hope you hit the bullseye this time.
- Scott
Posted by jms600 on August 30, 2009, at 12:09:57
In reply to time for Seroquel XR - available Belgium september, posted by Jeroen on August 30, 2009, at 9:25:22
> time for Seroquel XR - available Belgium in september
>
> no idea of the tolerance issue has been fixed or my body will accept the new formula differently
>
> i'm also taking Abilify, will it blocks anti depressant or anti psychotic effect of the Seroquel XR
>
>
>
> will ask my doctor for a low dosage to start with and build upto 400-800 mg
>
> XR XR XR XR XR XR XR XR XR XR XR XR XR XR :)
I took Seroquel XR as an augmentation to Cipralex about 18 months back. I went up to 200mg of Seroquel and it didn't really seem to do much to help my depression and anxiety at that dose.
Posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 12:14:37
In reply to Re: time for Seroquel XR - available Belgium september, posted by jms600 on August 30, 2009, at 12:09:57
> I took Seroquel XR as an augmentation to Cipralex about 18 months back. I went up to 200mg of Seroquel and it didn't really seem to do much to help my depression and anxiety at that dose.
If you still would like to continue to try antipsychotics, I would recommend you take a look at Geodon to add to the Cipralex.
- Scott
Posted by Phil on August 30, 2009, at 12:15:24
In reply to america talk, posted by Jeroen on August 30, 2009, at 10:23:06
It's allllright. Good luck, my friend.
Posted by Maxime on August 30, 2009, at 12:47:06
In reply to time for Seroquel XR - available Belgium september, posted by Jeroen on August 30, 2009, at 9:25:22
I hope the Seroquel XR helps you. That's a good idea to get to a high dosage. I think you will be able to tolerate it. Good luck!
Posted by Jeroen on August 30, 2009, at 12:47:29
In reply to Re: time for Seroquel XR - available Belgium september » jms600, posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 12:14:37
geodon and cipralex? is dangerous
it had a really bad serotoenergic effect on me
i wont do it
Posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 13:12:14
In reply to geodon and cipralex? is dangerous, posted by Jeroen on August 30, 2009, at 12:47:29
> geodon and cipralex? is dangerous
>
> it had a really bad serotoenergic effect on me
>
> i wont do itWhat do you consider to be a "bad serotonergic effect"? Can you describe the symptoms you displayed?
That exact combination saved a friend of mine from a life of misery.
I understand that Geodon is a reuptake inhibitor. However, clinically, it doesn't seem to provoke a serotonin syndrome in the people I know who have used it as an augmenter of SRIs. Me included.
- Scott
Posted by Jeroen on August 30, 2009, at 13:23:41
In reply to Re: geodon and cipralex? is dangerous » Jeroen, posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 13:12:14
i had unknown stumach pains, agitation, change in personality but it went away after i stopped taking the geodon and continue taking the cipralex 10 mg
Posted by Jeroen on August 30, 2009, at 13:28:55
In reply to Re: geodon and cipralex? is dangerous, posted by Jeroen on August 30, 2009, at 13:23:41
hi maxime, i propably have severe tachardia again on XR, but who knows
im blocked with other meds,Zyprexa dont work
Abilify dont takes psychosis entire away
Seroquel only that worked but pooped out
Geodon, never worked and got TD
Clozapine never did a damn thing and coudnt swallow normalSSRI like paxil just gave me more energy not psychosis good feeling
Solian never worked
Sulpiride, did something but not it, could be the abilify blocking its effects, tryed to go higher dosage and got pannick attacks so didnt go up more
Risperidone & Invega, did nothing and make me a zombie
Posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 13:44:50
In reply to Re: geodon and cipralex? is dangerous, posted by Jeroen on August 30, 2009, at 13:23:41
> i had unknown stumach pains, agitation, change in personality but it went away after i stopped taking the geodon and continue taking the cipralex 10 mg
I don't understand how you ascribe serotonin toxicity to these things.
I believe you when you say that you had a bad reaction, but why serotonin? Some of the symptoms you describe overlap with those of serotonin syndrome, but taken as a whole, I have to question the certitude with which you arrived to your conclusion.
* Irritability
* Delirium
* Loss of consciousness
* Fits
* Restlessness
* Increased reflexes
* Stiffness
* Shaking
* Pain in the abdomen
* Diarrhoea
* Sweating
* Increased temperature
* High blood pressure
* Increased heart rate
* Sweating
* Shivering
* Tremor
* Mental status changes
* Restlessness
* Increased reflexes- Scott
Posted by Jeroen on August 30, 2009, at 13:55:57
In reply to Re: geodon and cipralex? is dangerous » Jeroen, posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 13:44:50
i'm so sad right now :( just crawling into my bed
when is this suffering going to end for us all?
they say therapy isnt a miracle thing, lol that's why i see cured people also people induced with psychosis
Posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 14:08:57
In reply to Re: geodon and cipralex? is dangerous, posted by Jeroen on August 30, 2009, at 13:55:57
> i'm so sad right now :( just crawling into my bed
>
> when is this suffering going to end for us all?
>
> they say therapy isnt a miracle thing, lol that's why i see cured people also people induced with psychosis
You are an amazing survivor. You always remain committed to living rather than dying. I admire this greatly.
- Scott
Posted by yxibow on August 30, 2009, at 19:15:11
In reply to Re: geodon and cipralex? is dangerous » Jeroen, posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 13:44:50
> > i had unknown stumach pains, agitation, change in personality but it went away after i stopped taking the geodon and continue taking the cipralex 10 mg
>
> I don't understand how you ascribe serotonin toxicity to these things.
>
> I believe you when you say that you had a bad reaction, but why serotonin? Some of the symptoms you describe overlap with those of serotonin syndrome, but taken as a whole, I have to question the certitude with which you arrived to your conclusion.
>
> * Irritability
> * Delirium
> * Loss of consciousnessNot to be terribly morbid, but also death (probably the coma part).
And people who are experiencing true (not retrograde) SS may not even be aware of it. Just as NMS, but in a slightly different way.
The symptoms overlap in those syndromes a bit.
One entering a true SS if they're aware would know it, high fever and delirium, and exaggerated psychiatric and organic.
If I ever had it, it was so mild as to be sub-clinical and pretty resolvable within days.
-- Jay
Posted by SLS on August 31, 2009, at 4:03:02
In reply to Re: geodon and cipralex? is dangerous » SLS, posted by yxibow on August 30, 2009, at 19:15:11
> > > i had unknown stumach pains, agitation, change in personality but it went away after i stopped taking the geodon and continue taking the cipralex 10 mg
> >
> > I don't understand how you ascribe serotonin toxicity to these things.
> >
> > I believe you when you say that you had a bad reaction, but why serotonin? Some of the symptoms you describe overlap with those of serotonin syndrome, but taken as a whole, I have to question the certitude with which you arrived to your conclusion.
> >
> > * Irritability
> > * Delirium
> > * Loss of consciousness
>
> Not to be terribly morbid, but also death (probably the coma part).
>
> And people who are experiencing true (not retrograde) SS may not even be aware of it. Just as NMS, but in a slightly different way.
>
> The symptoms overlap in those syndromes a bit.
>
> One entering a true SS if they're aware would know it, high fever and delirium, and exaggerated psychiatric and organic.
>
>
> If I ever had it, it was so mild as to be sub-clinical and pretty resolvable within days.There was one time that I was so desperate, that I wanted to see for myself whether or not combining an SRI with Parnate would precipitate a SS event. I chose Effexor as the SRI because it had a shorter half-life than the other drug I had available. I began displaying SS symptoms within 45 minutes, maybe less. I became incoherent and was talking jibberish to my parents. I could not get out of bed because my muscles were so rigid. I don't remember very much more about the episode except that I managed to somehow ask my parents to take my temperature. It was not elevated, so I decided there was nothing to worry about, and I resumed talking jibberish. It took about 2 hours to pass. I got lucky.
- Scott
Posted by Jeroen on August 31, 2009, at 4:10:47
In reply to Re: geodon and cipralex? is dangerous » yxibow, posted by SLS on August 31, 2009, at 4:03:02
that's horrible!
Posted by yxibow on August 31, 2009, at 22:48:24
In reply to Re: geodon and cipralex? is dangerous » yxibow, posted by SLS on August 31, 2009, at 4:03:02
> There was one time that I was so desperate, that I wanted to see for myself whether or not combining an SRI with Parnate would precipitate a SS event. I chose Effexor as the SRI because it had a shorter half-life than the other drug I had available. I began displaying SS symptoms within 45 minutes, maybe less. I became incoherent and was talking jibberish to my parents. I could not get out of bed because my muscles were so rigid. I don't remember very much more about the episode except that I managed to somehow ask my parents to take my temperature. It was not elevated, so I decided there was nothing to worry about, and I resumed talking jibberish. It took about 2 hours to pass. I got lucky.
I'm sorry to hear that, Scott.Those are all the major signs of SS.
I won't pry if you don't want to say that you had thoughts of harming yourself. From what I gather it could be a not thought through plan to try to get through a very painful period of depression.
I'm glad you came through that because that could land someone in the ICU.
We really only have acetaminophen or aspirin to stop things -- I've looked through all the esoteric NSAIDs and while they may mention antipyretic in the description, they're pretty much meant for specific types of arthritis, for people who have been taking them for years.
There is no new antipyretic... I mean maybe for some ibuprofen works, but it doesn't do anything for me for fever, only pain, and I'm a pretty high metabolizer of it, in terms of amount.
I know some doctor had told me when I had a flu and I had a fever of 104+ to combine acetaminophen and ibuprofen back and forth. I have heard of this strategy before. I don't know the mechanism or whether it works for everyone.
Its curious there's no new research into things that are purely antipyretic for intensive care. Mainly into pain relievers and at COX-2 and other sites of the brain.
Basically supportive care.. sometimes ice even, although that is controversial because it can shock the patient into even something worse.
Anyhow, this is off topic, but something I've thought about before.
-- tidingsJay
Posted by Jeroen on August 31, 2009, at 23:05:49
In reply to Re: geodon and cipralex? is dangerous » SLS, posted by yxibow on August 31, 2009, at 22:48:24
ibuprofen is no longer combatting the pain of my teeth infection
:( i took 4 todayanother poop out med
Posted by yxibow on September 1, 2009, at 4:14:54
In reply to ibuprofen, posted by Jeroen on August 31, 2009, at 23:05:49
> ibuprofen is no longer combatting the pain of my teeth infection
>
>
> :( i took 4 today
>
> another poop out med
How long have you been taking ibuprofen ? And why isn't the tooth infection being controlled by a specific antibiotic first ?
I happen to be a fast metabolizer so I do need more than the average person at times for -certain- medications, but that doesn't mean everyone should be taking that amount of ibuprofen.
Its not necessarily a "poop-out", per-se, but what can happen with some anaesthetics/NSAIDS/migraine medications/etc is that if they are taken too often, a reverse pain syndrome can develop.
If possible, take a break from ibuprofen for a bit, and I know, there will be a chance of reverse pain, and say return back to it in a week or two, depending on how long you have been taking it. You may be able to bounce back, because this does happen with non-narcotic agents.
But the infection itself should be looked at and treated first and not covered with pain medication. You don't want to have a root canal or some other related complication.
If any pain medication is to be used for oral pain, temporarily actually something like Anbesol should be used for it. Here, the formulation is benzocaine, but in Europe I believe teething/tooth pain formulations are lidocaine.
If that doesn't work, a dentist should prescribe a stronger strength of lidocaine or if available, benzocaine.
Also some caries can be affected by medications that dry the mouth, so your doctor should inform the dentist about anything that may be preventing natural saliva formation.-- tidings
Posted by SLS on September 1, 2009, at 6:18:34
In reply to Re: geodon and cipralex? is dangerous » SLS, posted by yxibow on August 31, 2009, at 22:48:24
> > There was one time that I was so desperate, that I wanted to see for myself whether or not combining an SRI with Parnate would precipitate a SS event. I chose Effexor as the SRI because it had a shorter half-life than the other drug I had available. I began displaying SS symptoms within 45 minutes, maybe less. I became incoherent and was talking jibberish to my parents. I could not get out of bed because my muscles were so rigid. I don't remember very much more about the episode except that I managed to somehow ask my parents to take my temperature. It was not elevated, so I decided there was nothing to worry about, and I resumed talking jibberish. It took about 2 hours to pass. I got lucky.
>
>
> I'm sorry to hear that, Scott.
>
> Those are all the major signs of SS.
>
> I won't pry if you don't want to say that you had thoughts of harming yourself. From what I gather it could be a not thought through plan to try to get through a very painful period of depression.I was desperate to end the pain and live a normal life. I was choosing life over death. I was choosing to take a risk in the hopes that I would respond to something that my doctor believed to be absolutely contraindicated. I bit off a very small piece of Effexor to experiment with. Luckily, I had the forethought to do so just in case the experiment was a failure.
- Scott
Posted by Brainbeard on September 1, 2009, at 14:55:11
In reply to Re: ibuprofen » Jeroen, posted by yxibow on September 1, 2009, at 4:14:54
There are dental infections that could be considered treatment resistant. 'You don't want root canal treatment' - well, that is exactly what you're gonna need if a tooth is infected, since the chance that an infected tooth is going to recover is close to zero. An infected tooth is a tooth that has started the process of dying.
But even after root canal treatment, infection can persist. Dentists try a second root canal in such a case, or an apex resection, which is the removal of the upper part of the tooth's root, sealing the remainder with filling material. Even after an apex resection, infection can persist. I speak from experience, unfortunately. The only thing left is then extraction of the tooth. Even then, infection can persist in the jaw. For such infections, there exists treatment with antibiotics, but ANTIBIOTICS CAN NEVER CURE TOOTH INFECTION, and practice shows they can't cure jaw infections either. They can only help relieve the symptoms and if you're lucky the infection goes in slumber mode. That goes for teeth that have already been root canal treated; untreated teeth will die eventually and at some point you will know by their giving you a throbbing toothache.
The reason antibiotics can't deal with tooth infection is that bacterial colonies are being formed in the tiny tubules (much smaller side-canals to the tooth's root canal(s)) inside the dentin, which is the material of which a tooth is made up. Parts of these tubules are so tiny that blood molecules can't get there. Which is why the antibiotic molecule cannot be brought there.
I have chronic dental infections that have proven treatment resistant so far, so let's say I have a personal interest in the matter.
Ibuprofen, by the way, is damaging to the stomach and causes many deaths each year in those who are prone to stomach bleeds: smokers, old people, heavy drinkers, and: (S)SRI users. Combining an (S)SRI with an NSAID like Ibuprofen heightens the risk of having a gastrointestinal bleeding by about 15-fold.
There has been research showing that many long-term Ibuprofen users are having regular minor intestinal bleedings that may go unnoticed but are detrimental to health. It's a lot better than bleeding to death, obviously.
There doesn't exist a safe painkiller. Acetaminophen (paracetamol) is toxic for the liver, the NSAID's like Ibuprofen damage the stomach. Both should be used in moderation and long-term use should be discouraged. In fact, opiates are safer than both acetaminophen and the NSAID's when taken in sensible doses, but they have their own problems, like constipation, tolerance and dependence. Still I think that for long-term treatment of chronic pain, they are healthier than the NSAID's. Of course, the NSAID's address inflammatory pain better/more specifically.
I must say, tooth and jaw pain sucks. I'm having a toothache right now from a root canal treated tooth.
Cheers everybody.
Posted by Jeroen on September 1, 2009, at 14:59:25
In reply to Re: ibuprofen, posted by Brainbeard on September 1, 2009, at 14:55:11
it's September and Seroquel XR not available??????
Posted by maxime on September 1, 2009, at 17:38:40
In reply to it's September and Seroquel XR not available??????, posted by Jeroen on September 1, 2009, at 14:59:25
Well in Canada nothing comes out when it's supposed to. We were supposed to get Abilify in July and we are still waiting for it.
I hope the XR version comes to you soon.
Posted by yxibow on September 1, 2009, at 23:21:08
In reply to Re: it's September and Seroquel XR not available?????? » Jeroen, posted by maxime on September 1, 2009, at 17:38:40
Its available here, but not really promoted much (it is mostly a patent extender), and in the psychiatric community from what I can tell, there hasn't been a lot of results -- regular Seroquel still covers even if the -half life- isn't long, its the plasma life and how transmitters change over time.
Still, I did try it... there was a faint improvement, and some slightly greater EPS/aggravation of tics effects as well. So its hard to really say that it worked more.-- Jay
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