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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 10derheart on December 21, 2011, at 3:51:24
Listening to a late night talk show and the host takes a call from one woman who, for some reason I never quite grasped, is adamantly against any service members returning from deployments in Iraq/Afghanistan, etc., suffering from depression, PTSD, etc., taking *any* psych meds whatsoever, no matter what. She said **all** these meds do 100% harm and no good - ever. She wants them to re-balance their lives and use only natural medicine (nothing wrong with that at all...but why throw way the other tool in the toolbox) Host tried to question her a little but her cell died. So he challenged folks to call in who had been helped by psych meds. After a while, a couple did, but then there were more odd calls...
When the host was talking with one man who complained that his GP gave him some "stuff" a couple years back that made him feel worse, and off, but then later rx'd Klonopin, which he still takes and which helps. he said he now cuts his Klonopin doses in half as he doesn't need as much. The host then discussed how this was dangerous and he shouldn't ever do that, or drink coffee with his Klonopin, because, "Klonopin is Valium." Uh-huh...thank you pdoc-host [not].<<sigh>>
If I have a point, it's that I hear lay people just ramble on making all sorts of connections and assertions and pronouncements about MI and the drugs to treat it, speaking with an air of authority, or they make sweeping generalizations and hold them forth as proof and evidence. It's still on, and now a caller asserts too many people look only to pills to solve everything and he knows this as a doc rx'd him a powerful painkiller after major surgery and he almost got hooked on it. He "never needed this" but took it for 2 months, off and on. I did not get the connection with overuse of psych drugs...not really. Again, a legit problem and a worthy topic but the leaps in logic are...distressing.
It's just discouraging that people in general are so fast and loose with facts, research, and so forth. Mental health issues are so misunderstood anyway, then you add in some of this other stuff, I dunno....the whole show just dismayed me.
Posted by 10derheart on December 21, 2011, at 3:56:37
In reply to views on tx for MI, meds....wow, posted by 10derheart on December 21, 2011, at 3:51:24
And I have to say I'm glad I live alone and only made the cat wake up for a minute when I whirled around and shouted at the radio: "What? Klonopin is not Valium!"
Well, he got the drug class right, but it was the way he said it with 100% confidence and authority. Ugh.
Posted by europerep on December 21, 2011, at 7:11:44
In reply to views on tx for MI, meds....wow, posted by 10derheart on December 21, 2011, at 3:51:24
I agree with you. I think that most of those anti-med people (even when it's others that take them) just need something to feel good about themselves. "Look, I too had problems in my life, but *I* solved my problems without taking drugs. blahblahblah..."
Unfortunately, the state of psychiatry as a science in 2011 does give those people lots of ammunition. There is no denying that the placebo effects of antidepressants are huge, and so on. Still, it's not like there is *no* science showing the involvement of neurotransmitters such as serotonin in mental illness.
But yeah, listening to those people's "argumentation" is frustrating...
Posted by Phillipa on December 21, 2011, at 10:08:30
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow » 10derheart, posted by europerep on December 21, 2011, at 7:11:44
Didn't hear it. It's interesting that most of the folks I run into in real life know of or are themselves on some MI med. They just say they are for depression, nightmares, or the older ones than me take or use pain meds the patches mostly and think nothing of it. I think a person must experience it themselves walk in the shoes to know what it is in all shapes and forms. I never ever would have know what panic was til at age 24 had to leave Florida and return to CT as I thought was losing my mind. When I found valium I said now I'm safe if this happens again I have something to fix it. At the time knew nothing of meds. My point is the average person just thinks of how they feel and what fixes it. And if fixed it's a good med. PTSD from the troops is real my Son still wakes over 20 years later or did if hears load noise and jumps for cover. Better stop here as rambling. Phillipa
Posted by Christ_empowered on December 21, 2011, at 21:35:59
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow, posted by Phillipa on December 21, 2011, at 10:08:30
Lots of anti-meds people make it seem as if those of us on meds are using them as a crutch or something. Like we're "weaklings." I was talking to an acquaintance who knows I have bipolar I, but not a whole lot of details. He said that my bipolar is only "as bad as I let it be," or something ridiculous like that. He also said that he had problems, too, but didn't have the benefits of Rx drugs. I was beyond pissed.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on December 21, 2011, at 22:14:02
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow, posted by Christ_empowered on December 21, 2011, at 21:35:59
wow, CE, that was a pretty lame thing of your friend to say, pretty ignorant too.
sorry you had to hear that.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on December 21, 2011, at 22:20:19
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow, posted by Christ_empowered on December 21, 2011, at 21:35:59
Meant to ask, how did you respond?
Posted by floatingbridge on December 21, 2011, at 23:45:19
In reply to views on tx for MI, meds....wow, posted by 10derheart on December 21, 2011, at 3:51:24
10derheart, that could have been a member of my extended family calling in. *Sigh*. I dislike the after supper talk at the very few large family events I must attend.
What I have been hit with is that taking medication is like being an addict. That's still a real stunner. Yup. It's fun, too. I heart my Emsam patch. I get so high from it.
I know if only I tried harder, better, paid more attention, bounced back better, didn't take things so hard, worked on my attitude (here's a perfect example), wasn't so damn sensitive, lightened up, did more therapy, the right therapy, went for yoga hikes, pulled all my fillings out and replaced them, found the right chant, had more kids, hadn't had a kid, rehabilitated horses, gave up everything for art, gave up gluten, gave up gluten and dairy and meat, ate more red meat, had a primal scream or a lucid dream, just that some one thing I am not doing, like give up carbonated drinks once and for all.
@CE, who the heck was that person? They need some circuits rewired IMHO.
No, I do, because that just blew my mind.
Posted by SLS on December 22, 2011, at 0:06:05
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow, posted by Christ_empowered on December 21, 2011, at 21:35:59
> Lots of anti-meds people make it seem as if those of us on meds are using them as a crutch or something. Like we're "weaklings." I was talking to an acquaintance who knows I have bipolar I, but not a whole lot of details. He said that my bipolar is only "as bad as I let it be," or something ridiculous like that. He also said that he had problems, too, but didn't have the benefits of Rx drugs. I was beyond pissed.
That sucks. It was probably futile to attempt to enlighten this individual. Ignorance was supposed to be abolished with the education of the public during the "decade of the brain" (1990s). Obviously, it didn't work.
I often introduce my illness to people by stating that I have a neurological disorder that causes me to have low energy and slow thoughts, and that it even causes me to feel depressed. This usually has the desired effect. I used to go out of my way to educate people. I became a sort of activist who wanted to combat ignorance and stigma. I was, for the most part, successful. I am not as motivated to engage people now. I have less energy to work with, so I am more selective in choosing whom to invest it in.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on December 22, 2011, at 0:14:38
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow » 10derheart, posted by floatingbridge on December 21, 2011, at 23:45:19
> 10derheart, that could have been a member of my extended family calling in. *Sigh*. I dislike the after supper talk at the very few large family events I must attend.
>
> What I have been hit with is that taking medication is like being an addict. That's still a real stunner. Yup. It's fun, too. I heart my Emsam patch. I get so high from it.
>
> I know if only I tried harder, better, paid more attention, bounced back better, didn't take things so hard, worked on my attitude (here's a perfect example), wasn't so damn sensitive, lightened up, did more therapy, the right therapy, went for yoga hikes, pulled all my fillings out and replaced them, found the right chant, had more kids, hadn't had a kid, rehabilitated horses, gave up everything for art, gave up gluten, gave up gluten and dairy and meat, ate more red meat, had a primal scream or a lucid dream, just that some one thing I am not doing, like give up carbonated drinks once and for all.
LOL. Thanks. You made me laugh, so I deem this day to have been worth being awake for."It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile."
- Gordon Sumner (Sting).
- Scott
Posted by sleepygirl2 on December 22, 2011, at 17:58:29
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow » 10derheart, posted by floatingbridge on December 21, 2011, at 23:45:19
I'm in such a get off medication mood.
This sort of stuff (anti-med stuff) might apply to me.
Posted by Phillipa on December 22, 2011, at 20:03:08
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow, posted by sleepygirl2 on December 22, 2011, at 17:58:29
Save money for sure!!! Phillipa
Posted by Christ_empowered on December 22, 2011, at 20:49:02
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow » sleepygirl2, posted by Phillipa on December 22, 2011, at 20:03:08
When my acquaintance said that, it was fortunately in online chat. I didn't bother with responding, just changed the subject. In real life...dude, I don't know how I'd respond.
If I could get off meds, I would. I think there's a lot to be said for therapy, nutrition, writing, etc. as a supplement to or replacement for medication. But you always have to look at your situation honestly. Personally, if all I have to do is pop an Abilify and possibly some kind of anti-anxiety and/or mood-improving agent to stay out of involuntary treatment, I'm cool with that. Other people, though, have less severe situations, so I think its probably good to reassess your need for chemical treatments periodically.
Posted by floatingbridge on December 22, 2011, at 20:55:44
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow, posted by sleepygirl2 on December 22, 2011, at 17:58:29
SG, if someone can do without meds, I am very supportive. A very close friend was on low dose lexapro then came off. It was fantastic.
People can discontinue meds, and if that's what you want to do, maybe, well, let's say, I hope so then.
It's the judgement either way that seems unnecessary. Not that you have issue.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on December 22, 2011, at 21:13:15
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow » sleepygirl2, posted by floatingbridge on December 22, 2011, at 20:55:44
I know, you make sense.
I just don't know what the answer is.
My t says something about needing to feel ok for a while on meds before trying to get off meds.
Sounds logical?? I dunno
Posted by floatingbridge on December 22, 2011, at 21:16:07
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow » floatingbridge, posted by sleepygirl2 on December 22, 2011, at 21:13:15
Your T mean physically emotionally stable or more like o.k. like accepting of being on medication?
Posted by SLS on December 22, 2011, at 21:26:29
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow » floatingbridge, posted by sleepygirl2 on December 22, 2011, at 21:13:15
> I know, you make sense.
> I just don't know what the answer is.
> My t says something about needing to feel ok for a while on meds before trying to get off meds.
> Sounds logical?? I dunno
A rule of thumb used in the past is to allow for 12-14 months of remission before attempting to discontinue antidepressants. Relapse rates are significantly higher for those who discontinue sooner.
- Scott
Posted by sleepygirl2 on December 22, 2011, at 21:26:53
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow » sleepygirl2, posted by floatingbridge on December 22, 2011, at 21:16:07
He means emotionally well, for 6 months at least.
I just don't know how high to set that bar.
I've been taking them for a long time. I'm on 4 now, effexor, lamictal, klonopin, seroquel-low dose.
My t says something like that lifestyle choices help, but all that has to be in place before trying to go off meds.
I guess I know it's more complicated than I'd like it to be.
Posted by floatingbridge on December 22, 2011, at 21:30:21
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow » floatingbridge, posted by sleepygirl2 on December 22, 2011, at 21:26:53
Well darn those life stressors. Seriously.
Posted by Phillipa on December 22, 2011, at 21:34:02
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow » sleepygirl2, posted by floatingbridge on December 22, 2011, at 21:30:21
Back in the day of less stressors, closed stores on Sundays as example, less choices of things to do or gadgets to get it was easier. Phillipa
Posted by sleepygirl2 on December 22, 2011, at 21:35:02
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow » sleepygirl2, posted by floatingbridge on December 22, 2011, at 21:30:21
I tell ya fb, there oughta be a law.
Posted by floatingbridge on December 22, 2011, at 21:44:18
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow » floatingbridge, posted by sleepygirl2 on December 22, 2011, at 21:35:02
That's why those old black and white films come in handy.
Posted by Christ_empowered on December 22, 2011, at 22:17:23
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow » sleepygirl2, posted by floatingbridge on December 22, 2011, at 21:44:18
Can you try to reduce the dose of maybe 1 medication at a time AND make lifestyle changes? I don't recall your issues, so I'm not saying "You MUST do this," because I obviously don't know what your life is like, but I've personally found that sometimes heavy medicatin' helps for a while, but then proves counterproductive over the long haul. That's me though, and the cocktails I've been on--your situation is different.
Posted by 49er on December 24, 2011, at 8:48:53
In reply to Re: views on tx for MI, meds....wow, posted by Christ_empowered on December 21, 2011, at 21:35:59
> Lots of anti-meds people make it seem as if those of us on meds are using them as a crutch or something. Like we're "weaklings." I was talking to an acquaintance who knows I have bipolar I, but not a whole lot of details. He said that my bipolar is only "as bad as I let it be," or something ridiculous like that. He also said that he had problems, too, but didn't have the benefits of Rx drugs. I was beyond pissed.
Hmm, on the Surviving Antidepressants website, when someone posted a link about someone not believing in mental illness, several people responded to object. Even when people have had bad experiences with meds, they realize that the issues are complex.
I would definitely be angry if I were in your position. As someone who had had sleep issues that may be due to sleep apnea, I found it very offensive when people had that attitude regarding insomnia. Even if there turns out to be no apparent physical reason, it is still offensive.
Personally, I am not anti meds as long as people are fully informed of the risks. However, I am anti b*llsh*t no matter whether it is coming from via mainstream or alternative medicine.
49er
This is the end of the thread.
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