Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1111831

Shown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Klonopin dementia or crippling panic?

Posted by PCB on August 22, 2020, at 18:29:48

Ive been taking clonazepam 0.5 daily for years because of my severe panic disorder and job that deals with the public. Im so scared to hear the link with dementia. I also take Nardil. Any ideas on how to get off Klonapin ? Thanks.

 

Re: Klonopin dementia or crippling panic?

Posted by Fred23 on August 22, 2020, at 19:24:02

In reply to Klonopin dementia or crippling panic?, posted by PCB on August 22, 2020, at 18:29:48

(My first reply didn't seem to make it, so trying again.)

Please research the topic of using CBD for anxiety.

 

Re: Klonopin dementia or crippling panic?

Posted by sigismund on August 22, 2020, at 23:25:05

In reply to Klonopin dementia or crippling panic?, posted by PCB on August 22, 2020, at 18:29:48

>Any ideas on how to get off Klonapin ?

Not that in particular, but yes.

CBD, as Fred said, can be useful and has been so to me.

Lemon balm and zisyphus are herbs that, IMO, won't damage you. They may or may not work as benzos do. Lemon balm may inhibit something that degrades GABA. In other words they are not just weaker but the same. I can't feel them come on, but an hour later I feel better. Maybe magnesium for sleep? Maybe taurine?

examine.com is a good place for info.

 

Re: Klonopin dementia or crippling panic?

Posted by linkadge on August 23, 2020, at 11:24:34

In reply to Re: Klonopin dementia or crippling panic?, posted by sigismund on August 22, 2020, at 23:25:05

I don't know if I fully agree with the 'link'. People who use benzos typically have more severe anxiety, which itself is linked to cognitive decline. I don't know if (or how they would) fully adjust for this.

I took some clonazepam last night because I've been having a few bad nights of insomnia. What's worse, the benzo or the insomnia? Chronic insomnia is linked to a whole host of problems from Parkinson's to Alzheimer's.

They like to criticize meds like this, but the do diddly squat to help patients find effective alternatives (the operative word being, effective). Some studies link SSRIs to Alzheimer's so pick your poison.

I use magnesium which lowers the effective dose of benzo needed (at least for me). Magnesium is also (purportedly) neuroprotective.


Linkadge

 

Re: Klonopin dementia or crippling panic?

Posted by sigismund on August 23, 2020, at 12:44:43

In reply to Re: Klonopin dementia or crippling panic?, posted by linkadge on August 23, 2020, at 11:24:34

Low dose trimipramine deepened my sleep and didn't make me feel dreadful.

 

Re: Klonopin dementia or crippling panic? sigismund

Posted by PCB on August 23, 2020, at 14:42:17

In reply to Re: Klonopin dementia or crippling panic?, posted by sigismund on August 23, 2020, at 12:44:43

> Low dose trimipramine deepened my sleep and didn't make me feel dreadful.
>

So trimipramine has high anticholinergic effects which is suppose to also be linked with dementia and fragment the normal sleep cycle. So I guess we are in trouble either way.

 

Re: Klonopin dementia or crippling panic?

Posted by PCB on August 23, 2020, at 14:46:40

In reply to Re: Klonopin dementia or crippling panic?, posted by linkadge on August 23, 2020, at 11:24:34

> I use magnesium which lowers the effective dose of benzo needed (at least for me). Magnesium is also (purportedly) neuroprotective.

My daily 0.5 mg klonopin never bother me before. I figured my high anxiety state and frequent panic attacks were more damaging to my brain than klonopin. Hey Linkage, how much magnesuim do you take and does it give you diarrhea?

 

Re: Klonopin dementia or crippling panic? PCB

Posted by sigismund on August 23, 2020, at 18:10:49

In reply to Re: Klonopin dementia or crippling panic? sigismund, posted by PCB on August 23, 2020, at 14:42:17

No anticholinergic effect from low dose trimipramine for me. I was taking slightly more than 12.5mg at night.

Can't tolerate any other tricyclic, that I have tried.

I did dream more.

 

Re: Klonopin dementia or crippling panic?

Posted by linkadge on August 24, 2020, at 10:58:18

In reply to Re: Klonopin dementia or crippling panic? sigismund, posted by PCB on August 23, 2020, at 14:42:17

>So trimipramine has high anticholinergic effects >which is suppose to also be linked with dementia >and fragment the normal sleep cycle. So I guess we >are in trouble either way.

Trimipramine is one of the few depression meds that (according to studies I have read) that actually enhances (or, in the least, doesn't suppress) REM sleep. The anticholinergic effects could be an issue (perhaps) but it's hard to say. Take nortriptyline, for instance. It does have anticholinergic effects, but some recent studies show it also has marked neuroprotective effects and can block Alpha-synuclein (and reduces the development of Parkinson's pathologies) at least in mice. I'm not saying that the meds *don't* cause dementia (they may), but it's often patients with more severe risk factors that get prescribed these meds.

For example, milder anxiety, typically responds to SSRIs. More severe anxiety (which is, in itself, linked to dementia) usually needs stronger meds. Are these studies fully accounting for the severity of existing pathology, when determining the risk of the meds?

Linkadge

 

Re: Klonopin dementia or crippling panic?

Posted by Hugh on August 24, 2020, at 16:44:56

In reply to Klonopin dementia or crippling panic?, posted by PCB on August 22, 2020, at 18:29:48

Extremely low doses of phenytoin (Dilantin) may enhance GABA neurotransmission, thereby correcting the imbalance between the GABAergic and glutaminergic systems.

In this patent application, Australian physician Philip Bird discusses the use of ultra-low-dose phenytoin to treat dementia, reading disorder, ADHD, acquired brain injury, visual fatigue, autism, PTSD, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, chronic pain, tinnitus.

https://patents.google.com/patent/EP2729216A1

If you scroll to the bottom, Bird lists numerous examples (case reports). For most of them, the ideal dose of phenytoin appears to be 2-3 mg. Some patients responded better to a dose of 1 mg. One patient responded best to 0.5 mg. One patient responded best to 0.1 mg.

 

Re: Klonopin dementia or crippling panic? linkadge

Posted by PCB on August 24, 2020, at 16:49:37

In reply to Re: Klonopin dementia or crippling panic?, posted by linkadge on August 24, 2020, at 10:58:18

Linkage! Thanks for reminding to read the literature careful. I have been lazy recently. I agree with what you said, and actually have said the same things in the past. Got to read the paper, no just the title of the study. The sensationalized title of the study is what the newspapers and psychiatrist tell us. PCB

 

Re: Klonopin dementia or crippling panic?

Posted by SCV on December 8, 2020, at 13:43:00

In reply to Klonopin dementia or crippling panic?, posted by PCB on August 22, 2020, at 18:29:48

I have taken klonopin for 35 years. One of the most helpful medications I have taken. No bad effects so far. The study that is being passed around was not a true double blind study and in my opinion is more phobia around Benzodiazepine medications. When a true scientific study is performed with standard controls ... I will listen. Until then personally I have had no side effects and will continue to take it as other meds for anxiety have more side effects.


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