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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 14, 2021, at 2:37:20
Hey guys,
I was on 75mg Trazodone and 37.5 Venlafaxine. The problem now is that I get side effects that I attribute to too much Serotonin. Heart Racing, heart pounding more than usual, anxiety, headache. Right after I dose the antidepressants. Reducing them helped. I am at 25mg Trazodone now for a few days. My best guess is that nutrition increased my Serotonin and now it is too high for me to tolerate any serotonergic drugs. When I reduced Trazodone in the past, I got depressed pretty much immediately. Not this time. That supports the notion that there is more Serotonin now.
Yeah, I actually would be happier on less drugs, so I don't really want to change my nutrition. I think if I didn't need any antidepressants, that would be awesome. Not sure if I should call my Dr. Maybe I will shoot an email.
I think I can get away with weaning off of the antidepressants without too much mood trouble.
I don't really know what I am looking for here. Maybe some reassurance. I shouldn't run into too much trouble as the doses were low and I am not stopping cold turkey, right? Besides, it seems that my Serotonin signaling is higher now, so yeah, that too should prevent withdrawals, right?
Ultimately, it is my call though. I just hope the Dr won't get angry with me. I surely don't want to back off with the nutrition, just so I can tolerate them again. Thats probably what I will be told if I go to the Dr. He is extremely biased against supplements. I think what I experience is something positive. If you don't need them, you shouldn't take them, right? And I am not doing anything crazy nutrition wise. The doses are reasonable. This may actually be something positive.
He kind of accepts that I do stuff on my own as long as I don't do anything crazy that could lead to serious trouble. Surely, I wouldn't do the same with my Neuroleptics.
Posted by undopaminergic on May 14, 2021, at 7:58:42
In reply to I can't tolerate my antidepressants anymore., posted by Lamdage22 on May 14, 2021, at 2:37:20
> Surely, I wouldn't do the same with my Neuroleptics.
>How did you come up with your choice of dosage? If you want to heal, you should be on the lowest dose that allows you to handle the symptoms without too much struggle. If you medicate all the symptoms away, your brain has no incentive to heal.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Christ_empowered on May 14, 2021, at 9:48:43
In reply to Re: I can't tolerate my antidepressants anymore., posted by undopaminergic on May 14, 2021, at 7:58:42
hi. in the older Orthomolecular literature, the 'experts' (back then, they were mostly MDs, it seems) write about situations like yours.
basically, people came in sick, so the OM doctors did what OM doctors did back then...tranquilizer, etc. + vitamins. If they were way, way out there, then shock + tranquilizers + vitamins. OK. moving on...
as nutritional treatment was continued, many patients who had previously tolerated the tranquilizers, etc. suddenly had more noticeable adverse effects. If I recall correctly, Hoffer's approach was to then try to minimize, sometimes even discontinue, the tranquilizer.
In your situation, my best guess -- just going off the OM material, more intuition than anything else -- is that it may be time to work with your psychiatrist and see how to reduce the doses of the offending drugs, probably slowly.
Personally -- keep in mind, I'm a big fan of OM, my DIY protcol has been a huge help to me-- I'd also think about doing some Google-ing and adjusting your supplements to help your overall health and also to deal with any problems one might expect out of the dosage reduction.
clearly, this is not any sort of 'expert' advice, and I'm definitely -not- encouraging you to drop meds suddenly or do anything that your psychiatrist thinks is inappropriate. All I'm "saying" (so to speak) is that your situation lines up with patient stories Hoffer and other old school OM doctors write about, and a dosage reduction might -- based on that-- be a good idea, if one proceeds cautiously.
:-)
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 14, 2021, at 10:40:32
In reply to Re: I can't tolerate my antidepressants anymore., posted by Christ_empowered on May 14, 2021, at 9:48:43
Thanks, guys. I was siply put on that high dose when I was in hospital. They had no patience to wait for the drugs to work, so they kept increasing the doses. So what you are saying is: If your nutrients are right for a while, you may end up not needing and also not tolerating the drugs anymore?
When I reduce Neuroleptics too quickly, I get an anxious and cant get to sleep.
Posted by Christ_empowered on May 14, 2021, at 11:57:11
In reply to Re: I can't tolerate my antidepressants anymore., posted by Lamdage22 on May 14, 2021, at 10:40:32
hi. me, again.
i wasn't trying to pressure you to reduce your tranquilizers. i was just bringing up what Hoffer writes. keep in mind that most of his patients (at least...the ones who writes about...) were on the Schizophrenia-spectrum, at a time when the available antidepressants were more toxic, not as easy to tolerate. so, when he dealt with patients having problems with the drugs after vitamin therapy, it was usually the neuroleptics...and usually the older neuroleptics.
i did read, somewhere...skimmed, really...that some people who have been on antidepressants long term develop some sort of intolerance. i didn't fully...grasp what exactly the person writing that personal essay was basing that on (data? i didn't see references?),but in her case...
if i recall correctly, the psychiatrist in charge of her care used sedatives -- gabapentin, clonazepam -- to facilitate a taper. so, there's that.
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 14, 2021, at 12:23:43
In reply to Re: I can't tolerate my antidepressants anymore., posted by Christ_empowered on May 14, 2021, at 11:57:11
Yeah, that seems to be what is happening. For whatever reason. I better listen to my body
> i did read, somewhere...skimmed, really...that some people who have been on antidepressants long term develop some sort of intolerance.
Posted by beckett2 on May 14, 2021, at 19:07:44
In reply to Re: I can't tolerate my antidepressants anymore., posted by Lamdage22 on May 14, 2021, at 10:40:32
Do you think it's the effexor?
Posted by rjlockhart37 on May 14, 2021, at 20:18:39
In reply to I can't tolerate my antidepressants anymore., posted by Lamdage22 on May 14, 2021, at 2:37:20
supplements are like vitimens, medications work diffrent, i don't think supplements could fully replace synthetic medications, nueroleptic stuff. Juts your doctor, my POS doctor doenst anything, that's why i've looked for other options for treatment lol. Gets money from pharasutical company and treat's their A-list patients better with medications.
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 15, 2021, at 0:57:04
In reply to Re: I can't tolerate my antidepressants anymore., posted by rjlockhart37 on May 14, 2021, at 20:18:39
The neuroleptic stuff sure is harder to come off of. You can certainly boost Serotonin naturally to a degree that will give you an antidepressant effect though.
I also wonder if the Antidepressants make me require more Neuroleptics.
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 15, 2021, at 1:20:01
In reply to Re: I can't tolerate my antidepressants anymore., posted by beckett2 on May 14, 2021, at 19:07:44
More so the Trazodone. I just think that I block Serotonin reuptake by two different mechanisms now. It was working ok for a while, but now it is too much.
> Do you think it's the effexor?
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 9, 2021, at 0:08:32
In reply to Re: I can't tolerate my antidepressants anymore., posted by Lamdage22 on May 15, 2021, at 1:20:01
Hey guys,
So it has been almost a month since reducing Trazodone from 75 to 25 and Venlafaxine from 37.5 to 18.x mg. I must say that I eat a bit more than before (Trazodone curbed my appetite) and yeah other than that, I feel OK. I would say depression has not gotten significantly worse. One thing that is weird though is that the 5-HTP seems to stay in my system much longer than you would expect. I get the side effect of vivid dreams although I have not taken it in 4 days and the dosage was really low. Also slight tachycardia sometimes. Is it possible that the antidepressants make it stay in my system longer?
Or is it something from my multivitamin? There are some plant extracts in it. Maybe an MAOI?
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2021, at 13:05:00
In reply to It has been a month since reducing ADs, posted by Lamdage22 on June 9, 2021, at 0:08:32
Mood is alright but I do experience cognitive issues
This is the end of the thread.
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