Posted by benzapp on November 25, 2001, at 19:05:34
In reply to Re: Is Morphine/Fentanyl the key to happiness? life?, posted by stjames on November 22, 2001, at 9:56:47
As much as I do believe opiates are the future of psychiatric medication, I just wanted to highlight a few points. There are actually quite a few different kinds of opiod receptors in the brain. The Merck Manual has a great section on neurotransmitter receptors for those interested. The ones I am concerened with here are the mu-1 and kappa opiod receptors. The mu-1 receptor is the "pleasure" receptor. The mu-2 receptors, btw, are the ones that control respiration. mu-2 agonists decrease respiration. Endogenous endorphins very in the receptor they affect, but they all activate the kappa receptors as well. It is believed this is part of a feedback mechanism that prevents you from being too happy, diminishing your reproductive potential. It is the direct activation of the kappa receptors that cause a great deal of discomfort. There really is a pain/pleasure relationship with the opiod system. The primary difference between Fentanyl and Morphine is the level of activation of the kappa receptor. Fentanyl doesn't last as long as morphine per dose because of its greater activation of the kappa receptor, which tricks your body into responding less to mu-1 agonists thinking there is too much pleasure going on.
All I can say is this, Fentanyl is not going to be an effective antidepressant. Doctors might be quick to prescribe it because it only lasts an hour or two, and doesn't supress respiration as much, but it will not be pleasant. Fentanyl is showing up more and more on the street because it is so potent. 10mg of heroin will rock your world, but 10mg of fentanyl will kill you. I hate the stuff. It relieves withdrawl sickness, but it makes you just as anxious. It also has a very dysphoric effect, making you SAD. Its not quite the short temper of morphine withdrawl, but more like the peak of withdrawl... where you just feel like the world is going to end. Morphine is dangerous because it evolved to be a poison. All advanced organisms, those with eukaryotic cells, utilize endorphins for respiration. A single opium seed will kill a beetle, by fatally activating the mu-2 receptor. There is not yet a mu-1 specific agonist. The company that makes one will make a fortune. For more info:
Great page on opiod receptors, as well as a little history on them. Done by some guys from the University of Bristol and Parke-Davis
http://opioids.com/receptors/index.htmlOpiods.com is a great site that will lead you to many case studies and medical journal articles, I highly recommend it. It is starting to get a little dated, but I think the big anti-drug push the last few years has had its effects.
Also, you are right on the strength, but remember.. equivalent doses for equivalent analgesic activity is 10mg morphine, 5mg diacetylmorphine (heroin), 25-100 mcg Fentanyl. Note, thats MICROGRAMS for fentanyl. There are 1000 micrograms per milligram. Thus, if you accidently take 10mg of fentanyl thinking it was morphine, you will have take about 100-400 times more Fentanyl than you should have. Ouch. Is it any wonder there are random opiate overdoses out there? A single gram of fentanyl is enough to supply at least 20,000 doses. If anyone out there would like Fentanyl its drug dealers. No one is going to get caught smuggling that stuff.
> And get you facts straight, in order of strength it's morphine, Heroin, and Fentanyl. On the street
> Fentanyl is called China White, so strong that just a little too much and you OB and die.
>
> There are analogues stronger than Fentanyl, but anyone with a name "3 Beer Effect" clearly has no business knowing about them. Some of these are so strong that any dose is an OD.
>
> Take it from an ex yet at the time very sucessful addict, a weekend in Mexico on morphine is how an addiction starts. It is also how you do something stupid and get into trouble with 1) the police or
> 2) the locals. Unless you have money to buy your way out of trouble yo are screwed.
>
> James
poster:benzapp
thread:84586
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20011123/msgs/85135.html