Posted by JohnX2 on February 21, 2002, at 12:45:21
In reply to Re: bad histamine feedback my culprit? Check this out., posted by JohnX2 on February 21, 2002, at 12:36:19
I had a brain fart on my serotonin alpha-2 thought.
The alpha-2 hetero receptors located at the dentrites
of the serotonin neurons diminish serotonin release.So if you held it constant with a partial
agonist like Tizanidine and took an MAOI inhibitor
you may get more serotonin release. This would
be the case if you went with a full blown alpha-2
anatagonist. Its funny though, because I have
tried Manerix with Remeron and it didn't give
me that serotonin flush.My other thought was just that the Alpha-1
antagonist in Serzone is stablizing things.-John
>
>
> Thanks for all the feedback!
>
> Now what do you think about this. This is
> long, so bear with me, but I think a dysfunctional
> noradrenaline system from PTSD can explain my atypical
> mania/bipolar.
>
> Going back to my thoughts about post traumatic
> stress disorder. No one in my family has bipolar
> symptoms. There is depression, but no bipolar.
> I went through about a 3 year period of substantial
> durress during a difficult time in my family and
> after this I had fairly classical PTSD symptoms
> (flashbacks, etc). When I first got an AD response
> to St. John's Wort it stuck for 3 days which was
> the longest response to date. When it worked I
> had an enormous emotional outporing and flashbacks
> to memories from my childhood. After 3 days the
> medicine did a weird thing and put me into this
> emotionally numb state with bad pressure headache
> and jaw tension. When i discontinued it I had
> panic attacks for 1 week.
>
> From what I understand about PTSD there is a lot
> of data to show that the noradrenergic alpha-2
> receptors become dysfunctional. Their affinity
> states (H/L) become skewed towards being high.
> That being said they are easily whip-sawed.
> There are a lot of thoughts PTSD depression is
> very difficult to treat because the feedback
> mechanisms involved in the noradrenaline system
> are really messed up and difficult to control
> with typical medicines. Some people postulate
> that better approaches maybe be partial a2a
> agonists.
>
> There is an interesting coupling between the
> noradrenaline system and the serotonin system.
> The part of the noradrenaline system that gets
> goofed up from stress is the locus coerulus.
> Norepinephrine migrates from the locus coerulus
> to receptors on the raphe serotonin system
> (a target for SSRIs). There are alpha-1 and
> alpha-2 noradrenaline receptors on the serotonin
> neurons. The alpha-1 receptors increase firing
> of the serotonin neuron and the alpha-2 receptors
> at the dendrites of the serotonin neurons act
> to release serotonin.
>
> So its thought that in PTSD that the locus
> coeurlus can be hyperactive since the alpha-2
> adrenoreceptors can easily become chronically
> overly downregulated. Ultimately either more or
> less NA would migrate to the serotonin system a2 receptors
> and overly downregulate or upregulate them.
> This could diminished or hyperactive serotonin
> release. You would be "stuck". So I'll shoot
> from the hip and guess that somehow I get stuck
> because serotonin release is diminished as the
> alpha-2 heteroreceptors are downregulated and
> the locus coerulus becomes depleted of noradrenaline.
>
> Maybe Im firing to much from the hip here. But
> in the case of Serzone, you would not get "stuck"
> because one of the metabolites is mCPP, a direct
> serotonin agonist and hence the medicine may get
> around a dysfunctional cross-talk with the
> noradrenergic locus coerulus system.
>
> Another thing I once tried inadvertly was taking
> Manerix while also taking Tizanidine. Tizanidine
> is a partial alpha-2 agonist, hence a buffer
> for goofy alpha-2 receptors. Normally when I
> take Manerix it does not do much, a little anxiety
> relief is all. When I took it with Tizanidine I
> felt a substantial flushing in my face and it was
> very similar to starting up Serzone, plus my
> depression improved, weird. So I'm thinking
> that the Tizanidine by acting as a noradrenergic
> agonist is also braking a dysfunctional loop.
>
> Anyways, it has been thought that Clonidine
> or Tenex may be useful for PTSD. I got Tizandine
> which is a cleaner version of Clonidine, from
> a neurologist who thought it would cure my head
> pain. The Tizanidine is the only medicine besides
> Serzone, Topamax, and Klonopin to help alleviate
> my myofacial pain.
>
> -John
poster:JohnX2
thread:94861
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020215/msgs/94939.html