Posted by helenbpd on February 27, 2002, at 18:49:59
In reply to Re: bipolar vs. borderline » borderliner21, posted by jimmygold70 on February 1, 2002, at 11:44:27
> Bipolars don't have a chronic feeling of emptiness and boredom, don't have much problems with interpesonal relationships (when mood is intact), their identity is quite stable, their are MUCH less suicidal, and not likely to have paranoid ideation.
> JimmyI agree, Jimmy. I would also add that Borderlines often get no benefits from mood stabilizers (lithium, depakote, etc) and antidepressants, UNLESS there is congruent intense, cognitively-based psychotherapy, and it is certainly not as radical a shift from symptomatic --> stable as is reported in the Bipolar community.
Certainly my own loved one (dxed with BPD by three different therps) has a level of transient psychosis, dissociation, self-injury and a very specific kind of anhedonia/boredom that doesn't seem to be Bipolar. And he spent three years trying every single Bipolar mood stabilizer on the market, with nary a change, either subjectively or objectively. He's now taking a newer antipsychotic (zyprexa), which is working very well. Do those dxed with Bipolar II show any changes in affect on atypical antipsychotics alone? I'd love any feedback.
I know a lot about Borderline Personality Disorder (my SO has it, and I run a large resource site on it, link below for the curious), but less about Bipolar II. It's my observation that there are definitely enough similarities between the two to warrant a LOT more research than is presently being done.
On the other hand, from the evidence of many more thousand accounts by both sufferers and loved ones, the behavioral and affective patterns of BPD are clearly similar enough to warrant a category of their own.
I've got a bunch of material on the Dx of BPD, theorists who suggest other names (Judith Herman's "Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder", etc), on my site.
Dinah, I agree with your assessment re. the development of a PD in response to an underlying mood disorder -- perhaps by the time a personality disorder is diagnostically "caught", the cognitive patterns have set to a rigidity beyond the "mere" reach of psychopharmaceuticals.
One can't neglect trauma as a causal factor in BPD, either -- official stats set about 75% of those diagnosed with BPD as having experienced childhood abuse. -- is this true for BiPolar?
Recent research on medication for Alzheimers is showing that it may also be effective for PDs -- which speaks in favor of the theory of traumatic damage to the hippocampus and amygdala (frontal lobe), and certainly helps explain the very odd and sometimes parapsychotic "rescripting" of historical events which is common to those with BPD.On the OTHER hand (I'm sprouting hands here), there is also evidence that the self-reported experiences of childhood abuse are mis/over-represented, due to precisely this faulty recollection ability of the Borderline.
Leading one to a real chicken/egg dillemma.Jim Phelps has an *excellent* essay on the BPD/Bipolar connection:
http://www.psycheducation.org/depression/borderline.htm
And my site is at:
http://home.hvc.rr.com/helenbpdAny input welcomed.
Helen
ps apologies for blathering on here, this is a pet topic of mine! :)
poster:helenbpd
thread:91257
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020222/msgs/95732.html