Posted by MoBe on September 21, 2002, at 16:47:56
In reply to Re: Any anytipsychotic history preceding myoclonus?, posted by chad_3 on September 21, 2002, at 4:31:28
> Hey again Mo-Be -
>
> Not sure if I said - but in late jan 2002 I halted my SP regimen due to some low dose amisulpride (atyipcal antipsychotic) induced movements. I have noticed some diurnal vairation (at night worse) - and sleep wake transition stuff which might resemble myoclonus. I have some dx by neurologist - hard to get - long story but Dr's are supposed to get consent before giving potential movement impariing drugs always - compounded that i am high risk not low risk like skitzophrenics they usually go to.
>
> Anyway - I saw something on pubmed where long term zoloft seemed to perhaps be involved in some new onset mild myoclonus.
>
> Tbere is a dopamine blocker nausea drug "reglan" (metaclopramide) in US worse than usa atypicals... kinda like amisulpride actually.
>
> Remeron + ssri is interesting - depletes both serotonin and dopamine probably - but NOT a dopamine blocker (which means you are ok - dopamine depletion goes with using any ssri but dopamine blocker is different story). Interesting though because remeron is a serotonin blocker (mixed effects but strong s2 and s3 blocker) - and probably anti-dopamine overall as are most antidepressants.
>
> In my case - I had polypharmacy going on when the guy gave me amisupride - in fact by far the most polypharmacy i ever had going on occurred right when he prescribed it to me.
>
> Basically I think you will be ok but I empathise with you and in my case although klonopin increase has resolved my movements and is now treating finally again my SP (+ low Nardil) - still I am not real pleased with a lot of things which have gone on in my experience with this and not pleased with Dr's I've dealt with - clearly they do not want to implicate any nearby cohorts who may have made legal mistake. The hestitancy to get involved in anything potentially litigious is so high IMO in CA in drug induced cases referred to movement specialists here - I have seen some amazing stuff - lies - bull**** and so on. I will not see any more nuerologists.
>
> Now back on Sp treatment - feeling much better but ..... well I want to talk to specialist lawyer I think - just a consult - and find out what seems to be behind the scenes common knowledge with CA p-docs and neuro's - which is if you screw up and causae a movement disorder negligently - admit to a "possible" problem with nothing in writing - treat symptoms for one year - admit to no mistakes officially - and after 1 year statute is up and end of story.
>
> I think that's how it works - not positive. Want to simply consult with lawyer and see.
>
> I have worked with these dr's for several years and because SP is so poorly understood my most of them (getting better sloooowly) - I usually had no problem talking to them and getting what I wanted - but I got along with them well almost always.
>
> Because I have read alot in past - and I would treat my SP at least temporarily while in office with them - I think they think they can BS me but it shows clearly - I had to collect all records.
>
> So frustrating - nothing I can do about it really. Except to go legal if I want - doubt it is worth it but really would like to find out what is involved anyway - and what the laws and statute is and so forth.
>
> Sorry the long ramble - a bizzarre story and sounds crazy so I write it out I guess. But am starting to move on now.
>
> To get back to your post though - the myoclonus - BTW how did you get that dx'd? Did a neuro do that or a p-doc? Myclonus and some of these other hypkinetics sometimes hard to see - maybe sometimes easy - so many can be similar. Saw a general Med Stop guy the other day first time in long time (Great guy BTW - funny) - he tells me nerugology is a "cult" - and they are "wierd guys". He is right on man! Specially the movement guys - not all of them but a lot of them. Their field is so obscure ... the movements except the basic parkinson's - amazing in drug induced they just bullshit the hour away and get you out and no way to stop it even if you have videos which are suggested for a lot of this - they can say "hey I have a patient no time now" - a guy I saw for 2nd opinion said this - told me no matter how much $$$$ I gave him he couldn't view my videos (3 x 3 minutes = 9 minutes) - couldn't watch them for 4 months jan 2003 - after statute expires is what I wonder. or so long I wouldn't bother. What a ****! I'm so used to it I had to make fun of him and eventually the joker said I didn't have to pay a cent buy to get out or he would call the cops. That was after I refused to have my insurance company pay - and he was free to compalin but I would tell everybody why - his refusal to answer a few of my questions and mostly to watch the 3 videos 3 minutes apiece. I gave them first to zyprexa worsening guy in May (Gerner) - then Treciokis (referred neuro at UCLA) - Dr. T suddenly dropped me because he didn't know I had video from March with postdated newspaper and obvious tardive dx. After his bs'd report. He dropped me like hot potato and lied a storm I went through all kinds of amazing stuff.
>
> BTW, Stanford movement clinic will not accept movements dx's in "litigation" - and I'm told by several large clinics (nurses) - that Dr's will avoid getting involved even to avoid a couple days wasted in court - it's that bad. Or like in my case there is Dr. T and Dr. G (gave zyprexa I supidely took tiny amount he told me to take and worsened things in just 3 days) - so Dr. G on 2nd visit onward bs's me till i bring in tape recorder and he allows (he has big ego) then he talks straight and keeps quiet. Well he has been on trial before for sex with a patient charges - picture viewable online. That's Robert Gerner at UCLA.
>
> I could tell a story (I have already) and sound like a total wacko. Probably most think I'm crazy but this is really how it goes. Unbelievable - I saw UCLA several people going along corrupedtly just to keep things under table. I guess this is similar in some ways to woman who gets harrassed and the guys say nothing and she ends up losing no matter how much evidence. Kind of like that maybe? Very frustrating nothing to do except if results are bad enough or frustration / anger bad enough to get lawyer and waste more of ones life and time on such stuff.
>
> Goodnight!!!!!!
>
> Chad
> http://www.socialfear.com/
> ps. sorry mo-be I didn't respond well to you - i started rambling on ... very tired... anyway write me sometime if you want my email on website - i think you are ok - you didn't take dopamine blocker and maybe got some sensitivity from long term serotonergics. Avoid da blockers always always though...
> best,
> chad
>
>
>
> > Hi Chad
> >
> > Thanks for your comment. I actually had to look up the antipsychotic meds to see what was included. I've never taken any of the ones that were listed; the ones commonly used for treating schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. About 5-6 years ago however, I was prescribed ritilin by an adult attention deficit disorder specialist, and remained on it for about 4 years. I started to develop depressive symptoms (always feeling sad and crying about 1 year ago). Part of it may have been all the tragedy around me, but I also wondered if it may have been too much dopamine, which I understand exists in balance with serotonin. Too much of one means less of the other. My doctor first prescribed celexa, then zoloft, then wellbutrin and finally a wellbutrin-remeron mix. This tends to help me feel "brighter", but also a little agitated. I wanted to increase the remeron for less agitation and less edgyness. On celexa and zoloft, I had extreme myoclonus on very low dose. And on remeron, when I move it up to 30 mg. I also get the myoclonus. I'm getting the impression that anything that increases the serotonin does not do it for me. Yes-it improved my mood, but that myoclonus side effect- yuch!!! The wellbutrin 150 mg and remeron 15mg mix helps somewhat for my depression but not as much as I'd hoped. That's why I'm still searching.
> >
> > Thanks for any input
> >
> > MoBe
> >
> > Hi Again -
Boy, does it ever sound like you had the run around with so many doctors. I've been very lucky. I've only been seen by a few. One was an ADD specialist. If I remember correctlyhe wrote a book called
"Driven to Distraction". And then my general practitioner has done the rest. I work in a hospital and I ended up picking my own doctor because he actually listens to me. If he doesn't feel he knows the answer to my questions he either looks it up (even right in front of me) or will refer me to a specialist if I ask.
>Once I went in for a refill and a locum (replacement doctor) was present. When I mentioned myoclonus - he thought it was serotonin syndrome. Who knows? I often get the impression these meds are not that well understood. A lot has to be said though for listening to your own intuition as well as what your doctor has to say.
I agree with you (I think) that I don't have any permanent movement disorder. I'm just kind of peeved that I can't use a serotonin booster - because it did seem to help my mood. Take care and I hope you get well!MoBe
poster:MoBe
thread:120298
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020914/msgs/120629.html