Posted by bozeman on April 9, 2003, at 1:25:41
In reply to Re: low cortisol- Jerry mpls and bozeman » Pfinstegg, posted by jerrympls on April 8, 2003, at 20:27:57
Going to try to answer several posts in one so I can get to bed. I apologize for the confusion of answering several in one.
> > > I recently read a single article about how war veterans and rape victims with PTSD often have very LOW 24-hour cortisols. Their adrenal glands apparently become exhausted by the stress of their terrible experiences and can not produce a normal surge of cortisol in response to a "normal"stressor. Is this similiar to what you both experience?
> > >I suspect this is exactly what happened to me.
> > >Do you need to take the extra cortisone on a regular basis? I would be concerned that that would make your adrenal glands gradually smaller and less reactive over a period of years, so that you would become dependent upon the cortisone, and that you also might develop some of the major side effects such as osteoporosis. This can happen quite rapidly with regular cortisone use. I have seen a patient treated with 5mg. daily of dexamethasone (for an autoimmune disorder) develop 8 spontaneous vertebral fractures and a tremendous amount of pain and disability, after just five years. If someone absolutely has to take regular cortisone, they should probably also be taking one of the bone-protective drugs like Edronax.
> > >I'm not sure much anything could make my adrenals *less* reactive. :-) My doctor tried for over two years to get my adrenals functioning normally using less drastic measures (I'm not even sure what pieces of what we're doing are targeted at the adrenals.) But cortisol production would not normalize. Hence the supplementation (5 mg 3 or 4 times per day.) Not intended to be permanent -- hopefully not, anyway. At this point, I definitely have no signs of any of the dread adrenal diseases (that I know of) -- I'm female, appear normal and look well to most people (just don't feel well, and am basically a shadow of my former self and capabilities.) Predisone is probably to blame for my adrenal problems (don't ask. I've changed doctors since then, and that's a big part of why.)
> > >I am unsure about what might be a better aproach, but was thinking along the lines of what people do when they have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I know that it is a very difficult condition to treat, but I'd like to get more familiar with some of the ideas which various people have put forth on the board here about CFS. Up until now, I haven't been reading those.
> > >
> > >PfinsteggI take magnesium maleate, and it sure doesn't hurt. But then I take about six different forms of Mg. My intracellular levels had gotten ridiculously low, so low my doctor didn't believe it -- thought the lab had made a mistake and made them run the test again with a new tissue sample.) I get crampy (legs, arms, feet, fingers, back, between ribs, jaw, etc.) and shaky if I don't keep my magnesium intake high. Other than that and the DHEA, I'm not sure what is CFS-specific in my treatment. Depression and CFS can mimic each other, so it's hard to tell which is acting up, sometimes. I take Lexapro, allergy pills, and a ton of supplements -- the doctor and I debate regularly which ones I can discontinue, but for now, she wins, I stay on them all.
> >
> >Fascinating! What you state above is striking similar to my reaction to stress. I've had only the 24-hr cortisol urine screen - twice. I have a great endocrinologist who likes to be sure about things. Also, I had some sort of adrenal function test where they took blood and then gave me a shot of something that "would trigger my adrenal glands to react.." then, after 30 mins they took another blood sample. That test came back normal.
> >I think it's called a "cortrisyn stimulation test" or something like that. Mine was in the toilet. That shot is supposed to stimulate your adrenals to produce cortisol. My adrenals basically ignored the shot. :-(
> >Anyways- I wouldn't say the hydrocortisone i take greatly increases my mood - however, I can certainly tell when it seems to wear off - say around 7-8pm - even though hydrocortisone has a long half-life - I begin to feel very lonely and get a knot of hoplessness in my stomach - hard to explain. I have been trying to keep myself educated on the effects of long-term cortisol treatment. I see my endo dr. on the 25th - so we'll see what he says. He also has me on testosterone replacement - and I think that helps a little too. I often wonder if the Lexapro, Seroquel, Dexedrine, Xanax - yada yada are working against the testosterone/cortisol therapy. Not sure.
> >I can't tell that it makes me feel like it does you . . . interesting. I can't tell that it affects my mood at all. But it does make me feel more . . . resilient, in a physical sense. Like my blood pressure doesn't drop every time I stand up so I don't get that "going to black out" feeling. I can carry grocieries, etc. without feeling faint. Much of the last several years, even while depressed, the mind has been willing but the body weak. The hydrocortisone/cortisol replacement/whatever it is helps with that. I just don't feel as weak. When things happen that demand a response -- I can respond, now, and I couldn't, for many years.
Someone asked about the feeling you get when you nearly get run over on the freeway -- I always referred to it (in my own mind) as "adrenaline shock" -- something happens and stimulates your "fight or flight" response. I'm not at all sure, but I thought cortisol was what enabled your body to actually respond (on a cellular level) to the "fight or flight" mechanism. You know, the stuff we read about "She had superhuman strength", "He ran like Forrest Gump to get away from those guys " etc. That's the piece I no longer have. I get the "fight or flight" response, but then I collapse because I have nothing to respond to it with, if that makes any sense. This article (though not exceptionally scientific, it's an easy read) explains it in basic terms.
http://www.linezine.com/4.3/themes/ksbmboa.htm
Hope that helps.
And yes, I always wanted to move to Montana, hence the screen name. I think it's absolutely beautiful.
Obscure movie quote: (must be read with a thick Russian accent)
Borodin: Do you think they will let me live in Montana?
Capt. Ramius: I would think they'll let you live wherever you want.
Borodin: Good. Then I will live in Montana. And I will marry a round American woman, and raise rabbits, and she will cook them for me. And I will have a pick-up truck, or umm... possibly even...a recreational vehicle, and drive from state to state. Do they let you do that?
Capt. Ramius: Oh yes.
Borodin: No papers?
Capt. Ramius: No papers. State-to-state.Goodnight from a wanna-be Big Sky resident
bozeman
poster:bozeman
thread:217030
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030407/msgs/217680.html