Posted by Larry Hoover on May 27, 2003, at 12:34:57
In reply to Mg potentiates benzos? Cool! » Larry Hoover, posted by mattdds on May 27, 2003, at 10:44:00
> Larry,
>
> You said it was proven that benzos can be potentiated by Mg. Where did you hear / read this?I've seen that a number of places, but this is all I can find on short notice:
Magnes Res 1991 Sep-Dec;4(3-4):197-200
Experimental evidence of a potentiation by alpha,beta magnesium L-aspartate of the anxiolytic effect of diazepam. Four-plate test in mice and qEEG study in primates.
Borzeix MG, Akimjak JP, Dupont JM, Cahn R, Cahn J.
Institut de Recherche SIR international, Montrouge, France.
The anxiolytic dose 50 (AD50) of diazepam was determined in mice in the four-plate test and the EEG pattern elicited by diazepam was quantified by Fast Fourier Transformation in monkeys. The AD50 of diazepam was reduced by 2.7-fold after repeated treatment with alpha,beta magnesium L-aspartate. The increased EEG fast activity elicited by diazepam at the expense of slow activities was reinforced and more long lasting after alpha,beta magnesium L-aspartate treatment.
> Interestingly, I started taking a supplement that has:
>
> Magnesium Gluconate / Oxide: (400 mg)
> Calcium Carbonate / Gluconate (1,000 mg)
> Zinc Gluconate / Oxide (25mg)
>
> I could swear that my Klonopin (0.5 mg, b.i.d.) is working better recently. But I don't know what to attribute this to. Perhaps this is a placebo effect, but OTOH I never expect much from supplements (or drugs, for that matter), and I had not heard before that Mg potentiates benzos.I trust empiricism (real observations). Zinc helps too.
> Another interesting subtlety I've noticed: I took a nap the other day and awoke without having my heart pounding (normally I awake from a nap extremely dysphoric and anxious, a pounding chest). I always wondered if this was an MVP thing (the pounding-chest-after-nap phenomenon). Hmmm. Guess it wouldn't hurt to keep taking it, as it's cheap and harmless.
I definitely agree with the latter statement. And, if there is a benefit, you'll get it, even though it may be too subtle to "prove".
> Also, regarding MVP / Mg. I have read that one hypothesis is that MVP is part of a larger connective tissue abnormality, somewhat related to Marfan's syndrome. I have to wonder if Mg is a cofactor for some enzyme involved in the synthesis of some protein involved in the (hypothetical) connective tissue abnormality in MVP. These are likely just moronic amateur musings.Not moronic. Quite the contrary.
Magnesium 1986;5(3-4):165-74
Magnesium deficiency in the pathogenesis of mitral valve prolapse.
Galland LD, Baker SM, McLellan RK.
Idiopathic mitral valve prolapse (MVP) is the commonest valvular disorder in industrialized nations. It is predominantly a familial condition, showing Mendelian dominance with delayed and variable penetrance. Although hyperkinesis and hypertrophy of the left ventricle have been described in MVP, its histopathology, somatic morphology and genetics support the leading theory that MVP results from a hereditary disorder of connective tissue. Latent tetany (LT) due to chronic Mg deficit (Mg-D) occurs in over 85% of MVP cases; MVP complicates 26% of LT. Mg-D can explain many clinical features of the MVP syndrome which are not easily explained by its genetics. Mg-D hinders the mechanism by which fibroblasts degrade defective collagen, increases circulating catecholamines, predisposes to cardiac arrhythmias, thromboembolic phenomena and dysregulation of the immune and autonomic nervous systems. Mg therapy provides relief of MVP symptoms.
> I have one more question. You said in an earlier post that after taking benzos, it is hard to get by on supplements alone. Did you mean that benzos are much more obviously effective, and one would be dissatisfied with only supplements after that? Kind of like the Buspar-after-benzos effect? Or did you mean that you believe benzos cause permanent changes that are irreversible? Or something else?
>
> Thanks,
>
> MattSomething else.
Young people, as a consequence of aging, gradually develop symptoms of that aging process. Eventually, they may find the level of a particular symptom sufficiently bothersome to seek care. For example, chronic anxiety may arise, which might lead to anxiolytic treatment, such as benzos.
Magnesium depletion is but one factor leading to increases in anxiety symptoms. Early intervention (i.e. magnesium supplementation) may have a prophylactic effect. However, once anxiety becomes strongly symptomatic, I doubt that magnesium supplements will wholly reverse the trend. A loss of resiliency, over time.
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:229017
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030525/msgs/229454.html