Posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 29, 2004, at 13:17:09
In reply to Re: Xanax XR vs Klonopin, posted by awatts on March 28, 2004, at 19:00:25
> I agree with just about all of the advise you've been given by this group. I'd also like to see you dump the Seconal down the toilet. A slight overdose can sometimes be deadly, especially in combination with certain other substances. There are much safer alternatives.
>
> I'm not a doctor, but I'd sure like to talk with yours.My doctor's absolutely one of the best (and believe me -- I've seen my share of them). No sleep aids work for me outside the (ultra) short-acting barbiturate, chloral, sodium oxybate, or narcotics spectrum.
Things I've tried that didn't work: zolpidem, zaleplon, triazolam, temazepam, flurazepam, estazolam, quazepam, flunitrazepam, bromazepam, clonazepam, alprazolam, diazepam, lorazepam, oxazepam, chlordiazepoxide, clorazepate, midazolam, phenobarbital, mephobarbital, butalbital, butabarbital, lithium, gabapentin, tiagabine, lamotrigine, valproate, topiramate, metaxalone, methocarbamol, tizanidine, carisoprodol, meprobamate, paraldehyde, glutethimide, codeine/morphine, hydrocodone/hydromorphone, oxycodone/oxymorphone, dihydrocodeine/dihydromorphine, meperidine, pentazocine, butorphanol, propoxyphene, methadone, levorphanol, tramadol/o-desmethyltramadol, fluoxetine, paroxetine, fluvoxamine, sertraline, citalopram, escitalopram, venlafaxine, nefazodone, doxepin, imipramine, amoxapine, maprotiline, clomipramine, phenelzine, risperidone, olanzapine, clozapine, sulpiride, quetiapine, thioridazine, stelazine, chlorpromazine, perphenazine, loxapine, haloperidol, pramipexole, melatonin, L-tryptophan, 5-HTP, kava, passion flower, hyssop, hops, thyme, melissa, scullcap, acupuncture (both with and without moxibustion), electroacupuncture (also with and without moxibustion), aromatherapy (with one key exception, noted below), massage, exercise several hours before bed, and cutting out caffeine, MSG, aspartame, and other excitotoxins. I'm sure I'm forgetting at least a few, and also I should note that a number of these were prescribed/self-administered for other purposes than insomnia but are occasionally purported to be useful for such (e.g. muscle relaxers, antidepressants, antipsychotics, anticonvulsant/mood-stabilizers, narcotic analgesics)
Things I've tried that worked briefly and don't any longer: diphenhydramine, mirtazapine, amitriptyline, cyclobenzaprine, trazodone, and a combination valerian/California poppy extract.
Things that work intermittently: essential oil of clary sage (in aromatherapy -- it always induces a state of euphoria and relaxation resembling both cannabis and opium that is sometimes accompanied by extreme drowsiness, but sometimes CNS stimulation)
Things that will put me to sleep unquestionably: secobarbital, amobarbital, secobarbital/amobarbital combination, pentobarbital, barbiturate anesthetic adjuncts (i.e. thiopental sodium), chloral hydrate, chloral betaine, methaquaalone (though I've only had it in the methaquaalone/diphenhydramine combination pill, "Mandrax"), fentanyl, certain narcotic anesthetic adjuncts (i.e. alfentanil, sufentanil, remifentanil), and sodium oxybate. Unfortunately I can't afford sodium oxybate, or I'd take it over secobarbital and chloral in a New York minute.
Obviously, the barbs and chloral are my safest options (aside from sodium oxybate, which is probably the safest of all the drug treatments I listed). There's no chance of overdose as I, for one thing, have no desire to do so, and just as a precautionary measure I have my mother hold on to the bottles of Seconal and Somnote, while I only keep a single night's supply of each on hand in case the need arises (which it hasn't lately; I've restarted a very-restricted carbohydrate diet and I always sleep well while in a state of ketosis). Besides, past attempts (around three years ago) to overdose on barbiturates were ridiculously unsuccessful for me; for my most recent attempt at suicide (March 2001), I took fifty 65mg phenobarbital along with twenty 100mg phenobarbital and 90mg alprazolam (5,900mg phenobarbital -- Heaven's Gate cult members used around 2,500mg with wine if I recall correctly; and they didn't take a month's supply of Xanax as well). It didn't even faze me. I eventually just decided to go to sleep but woke up just fine six hours later with a mild barbiturate hangover. I don't remember the specifics of most of the other times, and many incidences didn't involve barbiturates, but once I remember taking 3 grams phenobarbital, 3.5 grams carisoprodol, and 12mg alprazolam 40mg along with 40mg bumetanide, 25mg carvedilol, and 40mg isosorbide (in hopes that they would stop my heart if the downers didn't stop my breathing). Again, same response as before. Just went to sleep and woke up with a mild phenobarbital hangover.
I really do appreciate any concern -- it's one of the many things I love about these forums. But in this case the concern is misplaced. I've been at this game for eight years now and have always researched my medications extensively, checked up on my doctors' credentials, and always monitor my condition for any signs of something gone awry. My doctor confers with a group of colleagues at the University of Houston concerning all his patients, and they all are in agreement that this is the best course of action for me for three reasons -- 1. it works like a charm, 2. not a side effect in sight, and 3. I am so incredibly treatment-resistant that such an unorthodox and aggressive therapy is absolutely necessary.
poster:Ame Sans Vie
thread:328918
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040329/msgs/329886.html