Posted by geno on September 29, 2004, at 17:33:07
Hi, everyone, i was researching this subject, esp dexedrine, because im thinking about switching to Dexedrine for a few reasons, from adderall. Ill mention ritalin also.
Iv learned a ton of information on this board and some books over last 2 yrs. So after some time of trial and error, I was diagnosed with add. My ADD, TYPE 2, sypmtoms are more so of a reward deficiency type syndrome, dysphoric depression, lack of motiavation and drive, creativity, and just bored all the time. WHich was all a big factor for me turning to opiate drugs for releife, because for the last 4 years, I never new about add, and social phobia, after 3 p-docs and other doctors. Basically SSRI's and Xanax was the most i got.
Sometimes i would have to get vicodin or stronger meds and use them for my metnal issues. I believe my abuse of opiates, which play a part in dopamine reward, and motivation, feeling of creativity, social properties, actually concentraction for me, unless i took too much, etc.
But as you all know, this cannot be done. I wont get into it, but now for 5 months iv been on Regular adderall starting at 20mg and now on 30mg 2x daily, but often take 3x daily. For my brain, Adderall wears off in 4-6 hrs. So, on average, i get 10 hrs of total drug peak blood levels, then leaves me with at least 6 hrs of down time, at night , when i cannot do without. I sleep 6 hrs tops, wake at noon and go to bed at 5am, most often so im up usually 16-18hrs.Now some of you will say ok, try adderall xr. Well my insurance will NOT pay for xr, but adderall yes. So i asked the pharmacist 2 questions.
1. What is the max dose the doc will write, i know 30mg is the max, but how many x daily, and she said 60. I figured. So I asked her if my insurance coveres Dexedrine and dex spanuals, and she said yes! I was happy
My doctor is very good to work with. He already has me on suboxone, a partial opiate for opiate cravings and abuse, but after 8months now, im down from 3 daily to 1 daily 8mg. THis drug alone can cause semi high, mood boost, etc, but for me, it does nothing but keep my cravings down a bit. Adderall works 4x better in motivation, mood increase, ADD especially, and also WORKS better for decreasing opiate cravings than this drug suboxone. Now they could be syngergistically working together but i tell you , I was on the top dose of suboxone before adderall and alot of cravings and ADD syptoms remained, although i wasnt sick from using. Maybe a very slight increase in mood and craving decrease.
Ok, back to dex and adderall, Maybe some of you will or had similar problems. Adderall, for one, does cause more anxiety than dexedrine, from what i read, due to the I-isomer. But nothing that bothers me ,becaause my doc has me one 1-2 mg of klonopin daily. Second, adderall, wears off in 5 hrs. THird, Dexedrine, is amphetamine, due to my really good progress on it, as i told my doc, i dont see any big problem of swithing me to dexedrine spanuals.
I believe they last at least 10 hrs. So if possible a higher dose of dexedrine spanuals, 20mg if that is the top dose, and then say a regualr dose of dex for the 10th hour. Or if possible two lower doses of spanuals, like 10mg and 10mg. But i will find out on here what the doses are nad what is the best effect of dexedrine dosing.Ritalin is out. I have used it, and first you cant have nothing in your stomach, or the effect go right away. Second, quite a bit more anixety, less social effects, but still decent concentraction. I believe potency wise, 30mg of adderall, is about minimal one and half times stronger, if not 2x , but id say 30 is more like 45-50mg of ritalin,
NOw dexedrine i can see being 2x stronger for metal stimulation, but alot more axniety. I did take adderall on a full stomach, and still worked but the effects dont hit you as fast, but anymore i dont feel much. ANd i have to eat! so i usally take my adderall dose 1 hr before eating and having it in my system.I can see ritalin being more abused. Why, cause due to the fact it is somewhat like cocaine acting, and iv seen this done a quite a bit, take 30-60mg of capsule, crush the heck out of em, and nasally administer it. Because an amphetamine or coke addict would tend to do this thinking its like cocaine, imo. I never did c so. But even though i do have an addiction, I dont abuse my klonopin at all, and i only take an extra dose of adderall because of the effects waning. Now if i took like 2 30mg at once, every 5 6 hrs and or nasally administered it, then thats is alot different. 90mg is high dose., but everyones add is less or worse, my tolerance is very high, plus im 230 lbs. But the weird thing is an ephedra capsule will cause 5x more panic, anxiety than 30mg of adderal, or even ritalin.
I also, took a break from adderall, or amphetaime vacation. Well the first time, was horrible. I took 10 days off, and was a useless zombie for 10 days. Sleeping 15 hrs a day, no motivation, caffiene and even an ephrine pill, i took because i was so tired, did not do anything. Just made me tired and anxious!.
So the second time, i had 20 ritalin 30mg La, from a prior source. Well, actually i ran out of adderall 5 days before my appointment, so i used the ritalin for the fatigue and adderall vacation. Even though they are similar, its not like switching to dexadrine, because Ritalin, as you all may know, act on dopamine via reuptake blockade, yet adderall/dex release stored new Dopamine from the nerve cell. Then you have precursors, that "produce or increase DA. Ya i still dont know half of the da system. Its very complex. ( like my article )lol.
TO sum it up, i have a few questions? what should or how should i put it to my doc, that i want to try dexedrine. I feel i will maybe take some litature showing him about the extended version, and that adderall xr is not covered, and that from doing alot of research on both, dexedrine seens more of a calmer drug, that adderall, and well worth trying it do to alot of good reports. I can also bring up the fact he is slowely cutting my suboxne dose, and since this is occurring, i feel that adderall is working very well,and trying a med that will give me a whole day effect will sure help me with drug cravings and add, instead of fighting to take 2 doses of adderall, and feeling some lows eesp when i need it. I did ask him before, but really quick, and he just said well stick with adderall, they are both basically the same, so i know he doesnt thing,(i dont suspect it) that dexedrine is more addictive or anything, but from the information i give to him, maybe will sway him to perscribe me dex spanuals, so i get at least 16 hrs of positive drug response instead of 10.
I also read some studies, and these were on younger kids like 12 14 yrs old, SOme docs will give a xr version with a regual IR version, ex. adderall. One patient was perscribed 1 20mg of adderall xr at 8am which gave him a full day esp for school effect, and then at 5pm was give another 10mg of regualr version so by 10-11 pm he was able to sleep and had a full day response. So if dexedrine spanuals last 10hrs or more, i would at least ask for 20mg of spanuals, when i wake up, usually noon, then around 9-10pm take another dose of the regular dose of 10-20mg so it lasts me another 4-6 hrs , so from noon till about 3-4 am, im good. But even though im up late, it because of my personal schedule. My doc doesnt know im on a late routine, but ill just say i need about 14-16 hrs of coverage, and im still able to sleep due to the fact he has me on 2mg of klonopin at bedtime.
To sum it all up, IN my opnion from exetensive research onhere, add sights, posts from a former "expert lab rat" i called him, "3 beers" who had basically the same problem i had, and tried all or every add med out there. He gave posted more advise which i printed out, than i learned from any other sight. He basically said the same. Dex had the best add effects, and mental stimulation, least anxiety, did cause a bit more of a euphoric feeling, but this can be due to severety of your add syptoms. Im more prone to anxiety, and drug use, so a drug which has not much anxiety features, and causes a scence of well being and motivation, but not a high like opiates, also spanuals he talks about being very good, which the down time is not bad at all, and is actually better than pharmaceutical methamphetamine, except for stimulation and long lasting effects.
One more thing. Sorry this is long. I do believe, out of all the 4 isomers of adderall, the d-isoer (dextro-amphetamine is responsible for the positive effects of adderall, more so like 80 percent, well exaderating but at least 60 percent,, then the other isomer, which is benedrine, is more so stimulation effects and wieght loss type, which really doesnt do much for add. The other 2 isomers i dont know too much about, but i can say dont compare to the d-amphetamine esp.
Im going to research this more onhere, If whoever reads this, and feels different, please correct me. But i take into effect that everyones brai chemistry is different, severety of add, depression, and how they handle the medication. Plus , If one such as myself, abused drugs that effected dopamine system and may somehow have "altered the reward system" since i used to abuse ghb and opiates , both major players in this sytem.
But with proper brain nutrition, such as DHA,lethecin, NADA, nootropics, i believe you can repair brain cells, I do take many supplements, so all in all i do tend to try to obtain the whole picture, but i probably al in all, dont now more than 10 percent of the brain, since its so complex. Thats what makes it interesting.Geno
poster:geno
thread:396950
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040927/msgs/396950.html