Posted by Larry Hoover on May 4, 2005, at 22:24:32
In reply to Urine Test to Measure Neurotransmitter Levels???, posted by Elroy on May 4, 2005, at 18:58:16
> Ran across this quote on a web site:
>
> QUOTE: The most effective way to correct a neurotransmitter deficiency is to perform a simple urine test to measure the neurotransmitter levels. END QUOTEThis has recently been discussed at great length on the alternative board. Here's a post with a link to one of the labs that does the urine testing:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050414/msgs/484920.html
A prominent warning on the lab site reads:
"We have become aware of claims that neurotransmitter testing could be used to diagnose illness. There is no in clinic patient treatment data or work in the world to support claims such as this. Furthermore, the hyperexcretion of neurotransmitters means that the testing is meaningless for diagnostic purposes at this time....Neurotransmitter testing is of no value or benefit at this time when preformed prior to starting treatment of the patient."
The truth of the matter is, they're absolutely correct. 90% of serotonin metabolism is outside the brain, but all the waste goes to urine. Just how are you going to fractionate undifferentiated waste, and imply anything about brain function? They can't even do that from a spinal tap of cerebrospinal fluid.
> (Actually I would personally believe this to be not quite that accurate... Dopamine, Acetylcholine, GABA and Serotonin are probably the most important brain neurotransmitters with dopamine, being the "precursor" for norepinephrine and epinephrine - elroy)
See, there are more reasons to be sceptical.
> I asked my psych doc and she was like clueless. She "seemed" to indicate that she wasn't aware that there was such a test that could be run to determine NT levels (other than running an expensive BEAM scan)?If such a urine test was useful, it would be routinely used. It's that simple. No guesswork at the doctor's office. Pee in a cup, and get a drug recommendation.
The fact of the matter is, these lab tests are hocus-pocus, used to sell you on the treatment.....which is, ta-da! nutrients. Now, would those nutrients fail to work in the absence of a urine test. No, of course they would work. Do the nutrients depend on a urine confirmatory test to work? Of course not. The urine test is part of the profit-making process for the clinic. Nothing more, and should be given no other credit of any kind.
> It seems to make sense to me that one would check something like this. Why would a psych doc prescribe an SSRI for serotinin deficiency if the patient high normal or even high levels of serotonin but was deficient in dopamine or some other NT??? Is it because this particular SSRI or that particular SSNRI happens to be the flavor of the month?
Based on symptoms. And, if you actually read in the in-depth process of assessment at these clinics that offer urinalysis, they do a physical consult and interview. Seems to me they're planning on treating your symptoms, after all, not your urine.
> Anyone familiar with this test and what it is "technically" called? I believe that it is a 24-hour urine test like that run for cortisol to show your daily total.Snake oil.
> I'd like to have one run and ascertain my levels. I have anxiety problems almost exclusively (along with a number of other cortisol and possibly candida related {HYSICAL problems) and have been fighting off taking a SSRI or SSNRI....The salivary cortisol is actually a useful test, and I believe the salivary DHEA is coming up as valid. The only other "fringe" nutrient test I know of that seems to have some science behind is one for zinc, copper, and the metallothionien carrier proteins. That's about it, off the top of my head.
Urine testing for neurotranmsitter waste has never been validated to any internal measure of psychiatric or biochemical function.
> A recent blood test that I took (to check for a pheo tumor) showed that - at that moment - I had minor low dopamine levels, low normal epinephrine and below normal norepinephrine. Unfortunately that was all the NTs that particular test showed, and a blood test only reveals what's circulating at that given moment, so isn't as accurate as a 24-hr urine test for showing totals....
>
> Thanks.If you're low, then I'd be taking dopamine precursors, and B-vitamins. And I would be you dollars to donuts that if you had that fancy bloodtest, they'd start you on dopamine precursors and B-vitamins. Maybe some zinc.
I would be thrilled to trumpet the utility of a test that would match patient to treatment by more than some black magic process, but I don't yet get to do that.
Sorry. But do lest us know if you go ahead. Make sure you note the history and symptoms they ask about, and if the eventual treatment would have made sense without needing the urine-testing.
Best,
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:493827
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20050504/msgs/493917.html