Posted by mindevolution on February 3, 2007, at 7:05:02
In reply to Re: Akathisia or RLS? )) halcyondaze » mindevolution, posted by yxibow on February 2, 2007, at 20:59:44
>Oh for cr*ps sake.
language please!
I've had enough of this negativism towards individuals on the board.
I am not being negative towards any members including HD, offering a view on akathisia is a legitimite response and far from negative.
> It still continues to go unnoticed although I am seeing a pattern of generalizations about medications handed down to people. Including myself, and I've seen no apologies towards lumping the "mentally ill" with "criminals" in previous threads.
As I pointed out previously, I haven't insulted anyone, you on the other hand consider the elderly, the retarded and the criminals "subhuman", and the mentally ill vastly superior to all of these categories.
> If you aren't a consumer, who are you to stand outside. An observer?
a member of the board as are you.
> I think this is as dangerous as the sky is falling scenarios that are being created by someone who from the pattern of postings appears to be a new member on the board. Welcome.
thanks.
> But it seems like just targets for trolling are being created without actually giving thoughtful researched knowledge to people.
well so far in all of our conversations, i have actually offered far more research to back up my claims than you have.
> Akathisia occurs with a number of medications rarely. It is an EPS, an extrapyramidal symptom. And if it is akathisia, there are mitigating medications for it. I've felt it big time once on Compazine. Have you ever ?
I know that akathisia is a very common side effect of AP, sometimes up to 75%+ for some APs dose dependent, it seems to be related to blocking and damage to the cholinergic system. It is less common but still does occur in ADs and according to the DSM displays identical symptoms as neuroleptic akathisia. "Serotonin-specific reuptake inhibitor antidepressant medications may produce akathisia that appears to be
identical in phenomenology and treatment response to Neuroleptic-Induced Acute Akathisia. "> Cogentin happens to be somewhat more atropine inducing, but there is also Artane and procyclidine. There used to be Akineton which was a wonderful anticholinergic and had few atropine effects. Taking an anticholinergic in medically safe amounts for akathisia if the medication is necessary is not going to lead to any worse effects than the side effect already produces. Or for that matter propranolol which has had millions of patient-years experience, or even clonidine (with the caveat that you shouldn't start and stop propranolol or clonidine suddenly.)
good info.
> No, there are no "cures" for side effects on medications. But there are mitigations that can make an important medication in someone's treatment tolerable if the use of the medication is better than the alternative. I once made a generalization in a posting about people on MAOIs, I backed off on it when I realized that I was being hurtful and I didn't know enough about them and the number of people on here who have been helped by them.
I never said never take an AD, and I never said go off ADs, I was concerned for the safety of another board member, with akathisia being the number one side effect known to be responsible for many suicides with AD use.
> I fail to see how Luvox can possibly help akathisia when the standard protocol for treatment is 1) discontinue the akathisia generating medication if it is not medically necessary or 2) treat with an anticholinergic at a medically safe dose or propranolol, or yes, clonidine, which when taken properly is also a perfectly good choice and is used extensively in child psychiatry for hyperactivity. Luvox, as an SSRI can very rarely (Zoloft more so) in fact cause akathisia itself. So I can't see this argument at all. Its out of thin air.
Well I agree that is the standard protocol for AP akathisia. but if you read the lit, there has been minimal efficacy produced from treatment with benadryl or ACs, and propranolol is generally seen as the best treatment. however I have noticed a number of research reports that focus on the merits of mianserin and mirtazapine with good results, and I have anecdotal reports of the efficacy of fluvoxamine. I was passing on this information but noted the low dose was necessary to avoid exacerbating the condition.
http://www.druglib.com/abstract/po/poyurovsky-m_biol-psychiatry_20060601.html
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/158/5/819
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=mirtazapine+%2B+akathisia&btnG=Search&meta=
http://pb.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/24/9/348
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16614537
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/174/3/238also that is not necessarily the treatment protocol for AD induced akathisia with switching ADs being the most recommended alternative from my reading.
> And finally -- any antidepressant has the possibility of "inducing depression." These black box labels have been the CYA of all antidepressants of late. But if you look at cases, it is just as likely that the people who have supposedly gained suicidal behaviour from an antidepressant, might in fact be undertreated or have breakthrough depression.from my reading there is a link between ADs akathisia and suicide, it is even in the link I posted and generally widely understood and includes black box warnings from the fda and a voluminous number of textbooks and studies.
> I'm not asking that you don't express your opinion, I'm simply saying that the sky is falling diatribes towards medication do not help people who are seeking rational medical thought. Post as you may, but remember that we all have to be civil on here.
well in my view akathisia is one of, if not the most common life threatening side effects of ADs. As for my civility I think you will see from my recent posts, that I have not insulted anyone including criminals nor have I sworn either!
me
poster:mindevolution
thread:728565
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20070201/msgs/729278.html