Posted by mattye on February 23, 2007, at 12:53:05
In reply to Re: Who is in denial?, posted by Quintal on February 23, 2007, at 2:25:48
Good point Quintal,
I have actually been able to manage my opiate intake. Mostly because they are expensive and I refuse to do heroin anymore (which is much cheaper than pills. For pills, you are paying for guaranteed purity and dosage. Heroin is waaay too extreme and unpredictable).
I am sure they would be a more effective anti-depressant if I took them therepeutically instead of a means to get high. And actually, for me at least, coming off opiates usually makes me a little cranky, but they have never left me feeling more depressed than I was before I took them.
The reason I don't do stims (coke, speed, adderall) is that the high is too harsh and the comedown is HORRIBLE. I have never felt worse than when I have come down from these drugs. I find it interesting that some addicts have the exact opposite reaction. My theory is that my brain is probably overwired and overstimulated and overstressed to begin with I seek drugs that calm it down. People who seek out stimulants usually are looking for the thrill or rush.
You mentioned benzos too . . . which interestingly I do not find addictive at all and it is impossible to explain this to any doctor who knows my history. Klonopin is very effective for my anxiety and it does not get me high . . . just sleepy if I take too much. In fact, I just came off of it after taking it a month straight and I had no withdrawls or cravings. I think having a month free from anxiety allows me to confront situations that would normally freak me out. My brain learns how to deal with them without the stress and whatnot. When I am back in the situation and off the benzos . . . I have "learned" the more sane way to deal with the situation.
I wonder if the same theory would apply for opiates. Like an aggressive 2 week treatment with opiates to pull the patient out of severe depression while the SSRIs get a chance to stabilize. During people's opiate treatment, they could get aggressive therapy. The opiates would allow the person to open up and talk about the things distressing them . . . thereby processing through the negative thought cycle that feeds the depression and anxiety.
Makes me wonder why opiates and benzos are so controlled while they hand out adderall and ritalin like tic tacs to little kids. Weird. I believe it is our capitalistic culture which is more comfortable with people being focused and productive instead of mellow and subdued.
Matty
> >Seriously, though, don't take opiates unless you absolutely have to. They are addictive - especially for depressed people. I have a lifelong addiction to these drugs that I have only been abstain >from for a few years at a time. They always come back to haunt me, especially when I relapse on my depression / anxiety. I have been clean from heroin for a long time, but I don't think I will >ever be able to kick the pills. They do come in handy if I am in a deep black depression. Rips me right out but dumps me right back when the high wears off.
>
> Everything in that paragraph suggests opiates are acting as reliable and powerful antidepressants, so where is the wishful thinking? In that tolerance will very likely develop and depression will return with a vengeance? In truth this is a very likely outcome with any conventional antidepressant. Everyone who has got to the point of considering an opiate will have experienced this already with conventional antidepressants. All of your pessimistic assertions apply equally to benzos, and as I said earlier in the thread, amphetamines. It seems to me that it is more the 'narcotic' label that colors our perception of what happens when opiates are used to treat depression.
>
> There are augmentation strategies that can be used, as well as other drugs that limit, slow down, or prevent tolerance such as lamotrigine that can be taken concomitantly in the hope of prolonging the antidepressant response.
>
> I'm not sure what it is I'm accused of being in denial of.
>
> Q
poster:mattye
thread:734151
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20070219/msgs/735393.html