Posted by tessellated on March 20, 2007, at 4:48:11
In reply to Re: Parnate vs Nardil » willyee, posted by Mark24 on March 16, 2007, at 20:53:58
as far as a psychopharmacologist once told me, nardil is like a shotgun. hits many different receptors, and not well studied due to its off patent status.
i had a positive blood test for amphetamines while taking parnate. whether thats, a false positive due to the testing methodology, or an actual metabolite, seems to be controversial. the propalomine ring poses the possiblity to be matabolised to an amphetamine, though most of the "few" studies seem to refute that claim.
i do believe that parnate has amphetamine like affects at doses over 80mg, for me male 150lbs. i've read that this is the result of an additional amphetamine metabolite similar to selegeline.
i've neve had much luck on powdered selegeline. the oral liquid appears far more active, and i've yet to try the way overpriced patch.
Currently, i'm cautiously trying a low dose 20mg parnate admin, and it really does, in subtle ways, change my outlook, like i can feel mesocortical activation: motivation, positive affect, etc. I'm staying low dose because, in my personal experience, when i've moved up or over the 100mg the withdrawl has caused me serious problems akin to amphetamine withdrawl. Paranoia, agitation, extreme fatigue, basically tweeker episodes. So I do believe it has a potent dependancy effect at doses ove 80mg.
Its been one of the best and worst meds i've ever tried. Not as bad as amphetamines; i eat excercise, am social, mating, but my 2 unsupervised withdrawls were nightmares.
It is probably the most potent antidepressant, its not considered a stimulant, as the dose and the individuals genes will cause considerable variation.
It does absolutely change several metabolic factors. As well it's not just an MAOI, it has directly activating catecholaminergic metabolic agonist, and alters cytokinase reception. I don't believe this has been worked out or understood as its off patent.
I think the problem most of parnaters have is an interruption in circadian rythms. Whether or not that matters is still scientifically vague. Sleep may not be anywhere as necessary as we think. However, chronic parnate, amphetamine, methyphinidate etc..withdrawl provides a analogous animal model of psychosis, wether or not this is at least partially related to sleep deprivation is yet in debate. It is hard to sleep on most maoi's. and i've found that reduced sleep actually helps depression, but when one pushes 36 awake hours regularly, in my experience it can exacerbate side effects not much disimilar to what i've read on amphetamine binges. except that i eat and find excercise pleasant.
using parnate with a benzo to control sleeping habits worries me about its analogous similarity to "pulling an elvis".
nardi, which i have yet to try, has weight gain issues, but might on its own be more directly anioxylitic due to the gabaminergic agonism.. it basically hits more receptors.
finally, and i'm only 32, and have never had a hypertensive reaction off parnate, even while eating banapeels, etc. red wine gave me mild headaches. i suppose this variation in affect is genetic, so ymmv, but the only problems i ran into were; insomina, fatigue, hypomania, and severe "discontinuation syndrome.
best,
t8
poster:tessellated
thread:476149
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20070320/msgs/742390.html