Posted by JadeKelly on March 18, 2009, at 12:21:34
In reply to Re: To much DA in with total MAO inhibition = low bp? » JadeKelly, posted by myco on March 18, 2009, at 11:58:14
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> Sorry this isnt proof read and i suck sometimes at spelling lol.
> I'm starting to not feel good at the moment. The symptoms are starting, although mildly. Slight nausea, feel that fuzzy throbbing heading gearing up to get to start soon, chest pains...this one is interesting. its only on my left side, top rib cage area and hurt only when coughing (thats another issue - coughing with phelgm - not a flu) and also hurt mostly when I lay on my left side..breathing doesnt hurt my chest and moving doesnt just leaning or laying on it or coughing hard. Plus again with the weakness starting...I know i will be ok until about 4 or so then it will increase to the point of my sitting for the evening with little boughts of ok i feel fine then not. any kind of minor stressful activity i do...climb 3 stairs, hold my one leg off the floor....causes my heart to beat faster and my bp to go up. it very sensitive to anything i do at the moment...i think i could actually have a heart attack if i was to do cardio in the evening...id bet on it actually, or pretty close. I WILL be seein some form of dr tommorrow at the latest...perhaps evening tonight if i get tired of feeling this way.
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> digital monitor not sure...my lil bp machine is digital with a hand pump...pharm guy claims its great once you know how to use it....only practice not the manual will teach you properly he said. that one was 40 bucks the automatic ones start at 90...im broke lol
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> These are things that I put into me on a daily basis to deal with anxiety or sleep:
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> -nardil 75mg (morn, aft, night)
> -multivitamins (one of those big centrum things)
> -extra B's when needed
> -extra calcium and D when needed (usually everyday in morning)
> -Various types of herbal teas with no caffeine - most benign ones but i use one called AdrenaTea...contains rhodiola and licorice and a few other sedative type plants...never had a bad experience with this one. taken for many month everynight
> -occasional magnesium citrate capsules (300mg total) cuz it works on benzo sites to calm me
> -melatonin (0.3-1mg; literally; discontinued for now)
> -seroquel (25mg, discontinued for now)
> -doxylamine (last night 25mg, antihistamine for sleep)
> -"scullcap" extract - benzo-like herb. 3-4 nights a week
> -occasionally (no we get funky and stupid on my part perhaps) L-tyrosine (100mg - tiny dose) for stimulation. have used total of 6 times on nardil only. 5htp (20mg - tiny dose - follows the next day with tyrosine - 6 times total only). havent used either of these in weeks.
> -temazepam (30mg) once in a blue moon or when scullcap isnt cutting it. i dont like to overuse these guys. this actually surpressed my bp symptoms one night allowing me think it may be over then the next day nope still there
> -norflex (OTC muscle relaxant - occasionally - last time 5 days ago during that hell)
> -acetominophen - 400mg tops usually - as needed for those blasted throbbing headaches - minor relief
> -ibuprofin (400-800mg) occasional - prefer acet for head and ibu for body pain. used 2 days ago for that chest pain - didnt work.
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> Thats been my ritual as of late...different stuff has occured in the near distant past but these are the closest ones.
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> The green tea extract has something called EGCG in very high content (its healthy for people they say)....biochemically it is a natural decarboxylase inhibitor Jade...what that means is that when you take enough of it it prevent L-dopa from becoming dopamine and 5htp from becoming seratonin temporarily then you get a dopamine and seratonin surge. That dopamine will definately play on nardil dopamine effects so thats why i think (i almost am sure) green tea extract set off a chain of events leading to out of control bp...to much DA does that as I understand but not sure. Bloody stupid call on my part to take whole capsule and not break it open and take a part. Living (lol holding on anyway) and learning.
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> Oh yes i forgot...one of my fav teas...green tea with ginseng...taken most days for a quick blast of stimulation. one cup (two most) brewed no more than 4 min - i am aware of potential problems of ginseng but thought was ok in tiny bits. Last time taken 4 days ago during hell week.
> Did I notice a diff? no...made me feel better on my feet actually...took away the sluggish no energy side effect of the bp issue
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> Jade I never take anything in large quantities seriously...i do use myself (stupid i know) as a guinea pig occasionally by trying the smallest doses of things ive researched (believe me i read alot) like tyrosine and 5htp...i know they are used by some pdocs with maois in tiny doses. but i always break open the capsules and dump out most...divide on a mirror with razor to estimate dosage etc...the culprit is most likely that green tea extract with its DA and SE boosting issues...messing with those in the tinyest bit can result in bad effects with nardil...larry was clear on this with me...i choose to try anyway...my fault. I didnt know the EGCG was so powerful anyway...i'm learning and will stop messing about lol run that idea by you pdoc and see what he says...i dont have one, im canadian you have to wait like a year to get one...gps are what most of us have to deal with unless youve waited in line for ages. gps will not understand this question very well.
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> i do not have a bp antidote...dr wasnt concerned overly. said if i want he will though. i didnt think about it really. never had an issue with bp until now. time to get one tommorrow
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> God I hope he doesnt take me off nardil...its really been just what i needed...i feel normal, can socialize and work again...it killed my smoking need, alcohol and drug addictions (my way of self medicating because drs wouldnt help me at the time with anxiety - said im depressed which is bullocks - stupid gps). Think he will want to pull it? man i will freak, its gonna make me go into relapse and im gonna become that neurotic overreacting publicly crippled guy i lived most of life as again...i will kill myself before I am forced to go back to that. I would say almost complete remission of anxiety on nardil...one or two bad days here and there...but i get whole weeks or awesome kick *ss days...thats not happened since i was a kid
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> myco
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> TUESDAY NIGHT
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> > Hi myco ;-)
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> > Glad all is cool. So far lol. Those headaches you are referring to are happening when your BP is going up. Sounds like it didn't go up to high but high enough to cause symptoms. Can you get a digital monitor if you're having trouble? I think medical people can get a more accurate read from the manual one, but alas, being lame we'll have to use digital to come close.
> >
> > I take 6mg of Melatonin a few nights a week and never get high BP. Are you taking ANYTHING else other than the green tea? OTC product? Soy protien shake, anything like that? Check out the new food list I posted just to be sure, read 1st 2 posts. I don't know what is in Green Tea other than caffiene, if its an energy drink it could be the culprit. Ginseng? Doesnt it have Ginseng? Check that on line too. Something doesn't sound right. Unless your taking this stuff in large quantities.
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> > Something is causing it. Do you have an antidote, ie: Nifedipine, or one of those? I would get that from PDoc asap also. If your BP is going up and up and that headache is becoming unbearable take one. Standing up was the one thing that eased my headache I remember. If you stop that stuff, your BP should settle down, and you don't have to make a big deal to your PDoc, or your right, he/she might take you off.
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> > I had to beg mine to keep me on. I actually negotiated with him and took Nifedipine for a week after, I don't recommend it, it was awful. If you cant find whats doing it, Tell PDoc the med is working well and you don't want to stop could he help you figure out what your doing wrong, mention the tea and melatonin, and see what happens. If you don't become completely normal, you may be able to augment with something that lowers BP. I take Ritalin with my Parnate or my BP would be way to low. Also it works to potentiate the Parnate. You have the opposite problem and it needs to be corrected. Normally you would be complaining of low BP by now! I do think all of your symptoms can be explained by the high BP, or whats causing it.
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> > Remember, take stock of everything you're eating and drinking, and see if its on the list as okay. Make sure you're not ingesting large quantities of a food to be taken in moderation, etc. I'm gonna look into green tea and melatonin and see what I can find. One more thing, sometimes those things come with added stuff, like melatonin can come with Thiamine for stress releif (Okay) not sure what they add to tea. Okay, good luck and let me know what happens! I'll get back to you if I find anything more on those two things.
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> > I agree, if your responding some now (how long?), that means you will probably eventually respond fully, I wouldn't want to give that up either.
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> > ~Jade ;-)
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WEDNESDAY 1:15PMSorry this isnt proof read and i suck sometimes at spelling lol.
Myco, this isn't funny, I'm serious now. NO WAITING UNTIL TOMMOROW You are in trouble, get help TODAY. If you don't see that you shouldn't be on Nardil. I'm dead serious here. Those symptoms, and the length of time, and the crap you've been adding, who knows whats happening BUT IT ISNT GOOD. Please, I urge you to go NOW.
I'm sending this, hoping you'll get it now and do the right thing, then I'll be back. Myco, do it.
Worried~Jade
I'm starting to not feel good at the moment. The symptoms are starting, although mildly. Slight nausea, feel that fuzzy throbbing heading gearing up to get to start soon, chest pains...this one is interesting. its only on my left side, top rib cage area and hurt only when coughing (thats another issue - coughing with phelgm - not a flu) and also hurt mostly when I lay on my left side..breathing doesnt hurt my chest and moving doesnt just leaning or laying on it or coughing hard. Plus again with the weakness starting...I know i will be ok until about 4 or so then it will increase to the point of my sitting for the evening with little boughts of ok i feel fine then not. any kind of minor stressful activity i do...climb 3 stairs, hold my one leg off the floor....causes my heart to beat faster and my bp to go up. it very sensitive to anything i do at the moment...i think i could actually have a heart attack if i was to do cardio in the evening...id bet on it actually, or pretty close. I WILL be seein some form of dr tommorrow at the latest...perhaps evening tonight if i get tired of feeling this way.
poster:JadeKelly
thread:885716
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090313/msgs/885928.html