Posted by linkadge on October 25, 2009, at 17:11:04
In reply to Re: This is a rat study!, posted by bulldog2 on October 25, 2009, at 15:44:29
>Regardless of what you think of the study it is >still a rat study. Until the results are >duplicated in people that is all it is.
It won't be replicated in human studies as it would be unethical to expose humans to experimental stress sufficiant to alter gene expression.
>As far as to wether it is a disease or a group >of symptoms this was my point. Cancer is a >called a disease also. But it is turning out to >be a cluster of diseases.
Well, its the same end result regardless of the exact etiology. All I am saying is that I think there are a subgroup depressed patients for whom everyday stress is not the *cause*.
>Depression may turn out to be a cluster of >diseases also and many approaches may be >required.Some evidence of this is the fact that >you said that anxiety has no part in your >depression. For me anxiety had a big part and >for many it does.
BIG Note** this study does not say that anxiety is not associated with depression. All it says is that exposing rats to stress alone is insufficiant to create the same altered gene experession that exists in a disease model of depression.
It does not say that the disease model was not experiencing anxiety.
I think this is a very important study because it aims to verify the validity of a disease model of depression in animals. I.e. there is something different about the depressive line of rats than simply taking normal rats and exposing them to stress. The flinders sensitive line is appears to have similar neurobiological underpinnigs to human depression. They exhibit abormalities in sleep, feeding and neuroendocrine function in the absence of stress. They are also responsive to standard antidepressant treatments.
This is a key problem with the posted study. It does not indicate whether or not the disease model of depressive rats used responded to standard antdiepressant treatments. If they did, then (while it does not contradict the findings of the study) it does contradict the conclusions - ie. the reason why standard antidepressant treament is inneffective for many depressed patients.
For many patients with severe, chronic depression
there are evidently no identifyable environmental causes. Patients with bipolar disorder can be up when the world is down and down when the world is up. There is something out of sync. There brain is not responding properly to the environment.My siblings and I grew up in the same house, went to the same school, ate the same food. Yet one of us has sufferent chronic depression since adolecence. I was not subjected to any more stress them. How is my depression caused by stress?
>I'm not interested in a long debate with you on >this. As of today this is a hypothesis done with >a group of rodents.You can love this hypothesis >all you like but like most rat studies will burn >and fizzle away like a broken rocket.
Everything in psychiatry a hypothesis, what exactly are you getting at? Don't stomp on everything that is new and different just because it may not lead to immediate clinical application. I applaud people for thinking outside the box yet some babblers don't give a rats *ss (no punn indented).
Linkadge
poster:linkadge
thread:922361
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20091021/msgs/922431.html