Posted by violette on June 29, 2010, at 2:37:01
In reply to Re: The biology of depression: SLS » violette, posted by inanimate peanut on June 28, 2010, at 22:08:23
Hi Intimate Peanut (that is a really cute name),
"If that's the case, though, what explains bipolar switching?"
Maybe it's like one of those questions: Is there life on other planets? lol. Maybe the Psychobabble forum members will figure it out and make a huge discovery...Dr. Bob would become famous...(he better split the profits with us!)
But seriously, that is a really good question. I don't recall much said about bipolar (if at all) from the video, or maybe I wasn't paying attention and missed it.
From the mix of what I've read of different perspectives, keeping in mind I cannot truly read neuroscience or biochemistry (I can read some cognitive science though), I have some clues..no answers, unfortunately.
I do know that bipolar symptoms are similar to what some psychiatrist who have both psychology and medical backgrounds consider to be attachment issues (and maybe those w/o psychology backgrounds). Some consider bipolar to be more of a "mood dysregulation", which is a term used by some schools of thought for many disorders that are not considered to be in the 'bipolar spectrum'. Some of the journal articles or psychodynamic books I've read also say that procrastination/lack of motivation is a form of mood dysregulation rather than depression alone...
Bipolar symptoms can overlap with traits of what are considered personality disorders (PDs) (some anxiety-related traits are also included in PDs)...for which those "diagnoses" basically just outline a group of permanent characteristics in its most extreme form if an individual were to have all of the traits listed..Bipolar is sometimes confused with Borderline and people get misdiagnosed as Bipolar or the other way around; that's one thing I've frequently read in the literature. Narcisstic traits can be manic (grandious) alternated by depression (deflated gradiousity).If you read the emotional construct of bipolar traits (as opposed to the diagnostic lists), it becomes somewhat more clear how the emotional dysregulation can occur if the causes are more emotionally-related.
From an emotional perspective, a person can develop a pattern of relating from childhood experiences and defense mechanisms (DMs) that are developed and block painful emotions from surfacing; people seem to employ different ones for whatever reason...people tend to permanently adopt certain ones for whatever reasons.
Anyway, after reading and thinking about DMs, attachment theory and other perspectives, my emotional dysregulation became more clear. So the old theories about DMs (in addition to some traits/temperment) explain my symptoms and behavior; how my brain works. Right now I'm in psychotherapy learning about deep, unconscious feelings that have caused me to use those DMs; basically addressing the fears that contribute to my anxiety.
My anxiety "switches" off and on. So to me, it doesn't seem unusual that a person's depression could switch off and on from feeling low vs. high.
I used to have generalized anxiety disorder (GAD)--basically, I didn't react to specific situations-it was free floating anxiety. Since i have a childhood attachment issue, my anxiety changes when I'm in a relationship-this didn't happen until I was older, however. But-that doesn't explain why it was previously free floating (although I think its because of usage of certain DMs). In part, GAD could have been fear triggers for which at the time, I had no awareness or memory of, that are unconscious due to repression or other DMs. For example, my mother told me that as a baby, although very quiet much of the time, I would be startled and fearful by sensory stimulation-I would scream when this one woman came to visit; she wore really bright clothing, lots of makeup/jewelry, and very extroverted, lively with a high-pitched, loud voice. I have always been overly sensitive-so I can see how I developed severe anxiety (fear) while sis, who was not scared/clingy, did not. It could be that colors and sounds and other things outside of my direct awareness triggered the previous GAD. I don't know.
My sister has conventional (as diagnosed) Bipolar I. I can be almost certain that she has a childhood attachment problem like me, but that it might manifest differently in her, perhaps due to her temperment (maybe that is a key to the genetic component?). Her temperment was much different than mine; in fact, it was in many ways-the opposite of mine.
She tended to be: extroverted, exploratory, adventerous, hyper, agitated, risk-taker, etc. as a child; some traits when she was just a baby (fussy/demanding, getting into things). On the other hand, I was quiet, introverted, overly sensitive, clingy; described as 'delicate'...
So in our case, it makes more sense (to me) that I developed my primary emotional dysregulation-anxiety--which is basically fear based, while my sister may have developed her emotional dysregulation from parental interaction resulting from her traits-being punished for her adventurousness & lack of fear--behavior that made her file good--getting attention as a result of those traits that she was inclined to feel good-such as getting into things, running into the street, etc...as well as receiving attention fo her agitation/fussiness...However, despite gaining attention due to her tempermanent-she experienced the same nurturing neglect/lack of positive attachment parental behavior as I.
So since we both experienced extreme neglect-my sister perhaps got more needs met--was paid more attention to due to her temperment. Being fussy or adventurous actually brought her the only atention we may have received while young-which could have strenthened those traits...while my being quiet brought more neglect, which would lead to more fear, and thus strengthen my fear-based traits..
I wss told by my mother I slept through the night practically right from the hospital--maybe my cries were just too quiet to be heard? I will never know, but surely my survival instincts (perhaps as opposed to the full spectrum of emotions not yet developed) depended on being heard...if i was not heard, I would imagine being in a state of fear, though no one can really say how an infant 'thinks'. If, as an infant, caregivers react to you 'dangerously'--while at the same time--you have limited emotional capacity, such as fear-hunger-sensory pleasure-couldn't the survival based, but limited emotions become more ingrained as patterns in a developing brain?
Anyway, so if I was in a repeated state of fear while my brain was still developing-the ways I chose to cope, though unconscious at the time, became more permanantely ingrained after continous reinforcement; my DMs, included dissociation and repression, for example.
So in comparison to my sisters BP traits, perhaps while she felt good when she was acting on her adventerous, explortory impusles, she was continually put down for those same reasons. Maybe that in itself could be confusing to the developing mind that has not yet learned how to process complex emotions--confused by mixing up feeling good/manic with feeling bad/depressed. For a brain developing, maybe those emotional experiences were ingrained in her, much like my fear comes from patterns I had since a young age.
How could the things that make her feel good make her feel bad at the same time? Emotional dysregulation could be the result of experiencing confusion over and over like that...a baby/child doesn't have cognitive capacity, so it is not something that can be easily researched from the cognitive perspective like adults with mental disorders. That leaves a lot of unanswered questions..Another example, perhaps for those never neglected or outwardly abused-maybe just the father was abusive-and maybe you just saw him on weekends--could that cause a more time-oriented pattern of cycling such as 5 weekdays in a row of feeling good and 2 days of feeling bad for the baby exposed to certain distressing familial factors only on weekends? Sounds out there, but it crossed my mind. Either way, things which are reinforced over and over appear to me to affect development and emotional patterns.
We had both experienced abuse and neglect, but its interesting to think how I ended up with anxiety-related traits and she ended up with bipolar traits. But that's only 2 people though-my sis and I. :)
Abuse, though more neglect in the early years, affected how our brains developed; I think considering that things our brains possibly had to do--cognitively--in order to cope is largely unknown, and because infants and young children do not have fully developed brains to tell us what goes on their consciousness or awareness--it makes the whole mental illness concept more difficult to explain from all angles-specifically, the cognitive side, an aspect looked at in adults and used to explain some mental or neuro disorders-but can't be meaningfully compared directly with babies or young children who cannot yet speak or communicate maturely, who have different brain characteristics.
I do think that because some theories are older, that doesn't necessarily make them less valid unless disproven, and I also believe that defense mechanisms are important and should be looked at and included in mental health models.
That's just my personal theory of how a sibling and I may have turned out with different mental disorders; how her BP may have developed. I consider both anxiety & BP to be a form of emotional dysregulation and it was interesting to think about.
Does that help you find any answers, or does it relate to your situation at all?
I do hope that someone finds the answer.
poster:violette
thread:952373
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20100628/msgs/952604.html