Posted by Ron Hill on January 9, 2011, at 21:39:35
In reply to Re: Nardil Follow-Up--ron hill, posted by roscopeeco on January 9, 2011, at 8:30:57
Jesse,
I'm not the usual Nardil patient. Prior to four months ago when I added Valdoxan to my combo, I had been a Bipolar II ultra rapid cycler. My cycle was 15 days in duration; 6 days of debilitating depression, followed immediately by 9 days of no depression. The 15 day cycle repeated over and over without stopping for 14.5 years.
Therefore, when I say that Nardil helped me, I mean that Nardil reduced the severity of the depressive phase in my ultra rapid cycling. Nardil did not by any means take away all of my depression.
Nardil is just one medication in my combo. For me to be well, it requires all of my medications working together collectively. It is important to understand that I continued to ultra rapid cycle until I added Valdoxan. With the addition of Valdoxan, my ultra rapid cycling stopped and, therefore, my depressive phase ceased. At this point, I don't experience depression, and at long last, I am fully well. However, my entire medication combination is required for my wellness, not just Nardil. It is a very important component of my medication combo, but not the only one.
As a side note, now that I am fully well I might try to very slowly reduce my Nardil dosage from 90 mg/day to 75 mg/day in order to reduce my Nardil side effects.
I added Nardil on 6/30/2006. Therefore, I don't remember all of the circumstances of my start-up of Nardil. However, I have a daily diary of my medications and how I was feeling on each day. I do not have time to go back through all of my diary entries. The best I can do is to provide an overview of how I reacted to Nardil start-up, increases in dosage, and at the final dosage of 90 mg/day.
> Are you saying that you saw some initial benefits before 90mg?As I look back in my diary, I see that I started taking Nardil at 30 mg/day on 6/30/2006. I responded favorably right from the first day that I took it. At the time, I was trying to hold the Nardil dosage to a minimum so as to avoid the side effects. Therefore, I very slowly ramped up to 45, 60, 75, and finally 90. After every dosage increase, my diary shows that I experienced a noted improvement. In other words, the severity of my depressive phase was lessened by each increase in Nardil dosage. The improvement occurred the very day that I increased the dosage.
Due to the fact that I wanted to keep the Nardil dosage low to reduce the side effects, I ended up spending almost a year ramping up from 30 to 75. I started 90 on 7/28/2007. Like all the other dosages, my depressive phase was reduced in severity right from the start of the higher dosage of 90. If I were to do it again, I would ramp up very quickly from zero to 90 mg/day.
Having looked at my med diary, I retract what I said in my previous post about 90 mg/day of Nardil kicking-in about two weeks after the dosage increase. Not so. The improvement occurred starting the very day that I increased the dosage.
However, there are several things that muddy the water. My ultra rapid cycling has to be taken into account when looking at my data. What appears to be a reduction in the effectiveness of the medication may well be just the onset of my depressive phase. Further complication occurs in that I had already decided Nardil was a "keeper" in my med cocktail and, therefore, I was conducting trials of other medication add-ons during the time frame of my increase in Nardil dosage to 90 mg/day.
The bottom line answer to your question is that I experienced improvement from the very first day of every increased dosage. As an aside, the biggest side effect problem as I was ramping up in dosage was hypotension (low blood pressure). When I stood up I would get really dizzy due to low blood pressure. That side effect no longer occurs for me.
> If so, what were the initial benefits.
I felt less depressed during my ultra rapid cycling depressive phase.
> You said it didn't fully kick in until two weeks on 90mg. The "fully kick in" quote is what makes me think you saw some positives before the 90mg. How long were you on Nardil including the two weeks at 90mg. Once you were two weeks into the 90mg where the drug fully kicked in, what did that feel like as opposed to previous weeks. I think this will help both mantus and I to understand a little more.
As I mentioned above, after looking at my medication diary, I retract what I had previously stated about the two week period. My diary shows that I experienced an improvement the very same day that I began the increased Nardil dosage.
-- Ron
dx: Bipolar II and mild OCPD
600 mg/day Trileptal (oxcarbazepine)
200 mg/day Lamictal (lamotrigine)
500 mg/day Keppra (levetiracetam)
90 mg/day Nardil (phenelzine)
12.5 mg at betime Valdoxan (agomelatine)
3.75 mg/day Deplin (taken with 2500 mcg/day of sublingual methyl B-12, and 12.5mg/day of sublingual P-5-P)
2.5 mg/day Adderal XR45 ml/day of Carlsons Bottled Fish Oil
100 mg/day phosphatidylserene
One Multi-vitamin/day; Only 100% of all the usual vitamins; Look for good chelations. NO VANADIUM!!
2000 IU/day Vitamin D-3
850 mg/day of Mg 212% of RDA (as 5 grams of Mg Malate)
200 mcg/day GTF Chromium
600 mcg/day Chromium Picolinate
200 mg/day Co-Q10
1000 mg/day Cinnamon
480 mg/day Milk Thistle
2 g Vitamin C
Whats next to add?:
NAC, + 8 to 10 glasses of water, + Acetyl-L-Carnitine, + Alpha-Lipoic Acid
poster:Ron Hill
thread:974555
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20101231/msgs/976388.html