Posted by PCB on August 18, 2020, at 7:42:23
In reply to Re: Anyone have ECT?, posted by linkadge on August 18, 2020, at 6:51:13
*I bet none of this is new, so sorry if this is repetitive
So Nardil stopped working for me in 2001 and I volunteered for ECT with Harold Sackiem. I was in that study which compared cognitive function with different ECT settings. And it was found time to relapse was about 8 months with nortripline and lithium and 5.5 months with effexor and li. Lithium given during ECT worsened cognitive function and nortriptyline as you mention enhanced cognitive function. I think 6 month months out of ECT, all cognitive function parameter were improved except one. But of course your cognitive function is zero in deep depression. I did well and dont remember any cognitive problems.
I have somewhat gotten away from the serotonin, norepinephrine ways of describing mood disorders. TMS they say activates the underactive neurons in the L prefrontal cortex. And if you think of a seizure in ECT, that is a massive synchronized back to back activation of all the neurons in the brain .... unfortunately the hippocampus as well were your memory lies. Makes sense ECT is more potent,
*although Dr McMullen says if you continue on to 60 or even 90 treatments of TMS, you can get 70% remission like ECT.*
My doctor doesnt say that. Also, nortripline is stimulating with the norepinephrine. So if you take a stimulant or even coffee before TMS is works better. If you take a benzo, TMS works less.
So this thought of neuronal activity as the main player in depression kinda makes sense. If your L prefrontal cortex neurons are underactive, they are not producting neurotransmitters, BDNF and microglia are not working. But send a little electricity through them with TMS and the system starts working again. Take a sledgehammer to them for 10 seconds with ECT, they are really working with some collateral damage to your hippocampus ( interconnected nerves holding memories break apart and start moving due to ECT.
Now come full circle and Dr McMullen claims Dr Sachkiem state TMS is doing something different then ECT in addition. He says that TMS intrinsically heals the brain an that how TMS get durability rates of over a year. I tried to look up Dr Sackiems paper on TMS and couldnt find much ... or him saying this.
Lastly ketamine I heard is like a ski slope. At the end of the day you have several trails that people have repeated gone over. This is like depression or PSTD, where peoples depressive thoughts get deeply ingrained in the brain and cant be removed easily. That deep ski trail with no snow is like a persons memory of Vietnam war. I bet those neurons are superglued together. So what I heard ketamine is like the morning snow or snow machines. They cover the whole mountain with fresh snow, especially those trail that were permanently overskied. Add some therapy to that so the person doesnt not rehash the traumatic event and you got a healthy brain.
The end.
(Except why so most of us here do not respond to this revolutionary stuff)
poster:PCB
thread:1111708
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20200711/msgs/1111758.html