Posted by Larry Hoover on July 18, 2004, at 10:09:20
In reply to Where to start??, posted by Indie on July 17, 2004, at 10:43:53
> Hi. I've never posted to this board before, but I have one big question. Where do I start if I want to start nutritional therapy?
There are general recommendations, and symptom-specific recommendations. Patient has done a pretty good job of covering the general guidelines.
> I have been reading this board and compiled a list of thirty vitamins, minerals and amino acids that are supposed to help with depression and I have no idea where to start.
As a general rule of thumb, starting a general supplementation regime is what I would recommend. Basically, a broad-spectrum vitamin and mineral supplement program, plus fish oil. Don't jump in at maximum dose, either. There's no rush. Let your body adapt. After you've been on that for at least six or eight weeks (and assuming specific adverse events have not arisen), then you can start more targetted interventions.
> I have been looking into getting tests done to find out where I am deficient but from reading here it seems that nobody has had great success with tests.
I personally do not believe that any of them are useful to identify functional nutrient deficiencies. Certain gross deficiencies can be identified by tests, but you'll never know how individual tissues are doing without sampling each and every one.
> Here is a list of the tests that I am currently looking into:
>
> 1) http://www.spectracell.com/ - My pdoc worked on this project when it was in its earliest stages. It measures vitamin, mineral and amino acid levels. My doc has alot of confidence in this one. The downfall is its $600 price tag which I don't want to pay unless it is going to help.It measures *some* vitamin, mineral, and amino acid levels. It assumes that leukocyte exposure to nutrients can be used inferentially. In essence, their argument is that leukocyte exposure can be used as an assumed integral (area under the nutrient intake curve) of nutrient exposure. But leukocytes are not simply storehouses for nutrients. Still, this is the best method I've yet considered, but its assumptions don't wholly satisfy me. Why spend the $600? They have a neat little table which shows which test analytes are most often found to be deficient. Another argument against their protocol is that they standardized the tests on "normal" subjects. Fact is, "normal" people are demonstrably deficient in nutrient intake, to begin with.
Here's a table of zinc intake in the United States. Roughly half the population fails to meet the threshold for adequate zinc intake (and adequate intake is only 77% of the RDA (see footnote 1)). RDA is defined as that level of intake that allows 1 in 40 normal healthy people to exhibit overt deficiency symptoms. You cannot meet even the RDA (of all nutrients for which RDAs have been established) by diet alone.
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/130/5/1367S/T4Another criticism is one that applies to all test modalities. The only way to confirm a deficiency of a nutrient is to challenge the subject with that nutrient, and observe if the associated symptoms of that deficiency remit. In other words, you take some, and you watch what happens. Tests aren't required to do the experiment, eh?
> 2) http://www.neurorelief.com/ - My pharmacist gave me the kit to collect samples and send them in. They have a nutritionalist who works with people on various problems and advise people to do this test before starting any regiment. The price is good but there must be a catch...if neurotransmiter testing were possible, wouldn't everybody be doing it? My doc is sceptical, but said it couldn't hurt so he said I should try it if I want.Your intuition is absolutely correct. Urine tests reliably keep the test lab's revenue above zero. Nothing more.
> 3)http://www.hriptc.org/ - Found this one looking at this board but nobody seemed to have a positive result. Has anybody had good results here?? Very expensive but, again, if it helps it's worth it. That's what credit cards are for right :)
I don't trust the people running Pfeiffer are doing anything other than running a business. Pfeiffer is dead, and with him went the spirit of the business. Nothing new from them in a couple decades, despite major advances in medical-testing technology.
> Anyway, I am just looking for any feed back on these tests and, barring testing, if anybody has any advice on where to start.
Patient gave the gist. Make sure you check out my comments to Patient's post, too.
> I am BPII and have been on the depressed side for over a year ranging from lethargic and uninspired to severly suicidal. About three months ago I attempted suicide, an act for which I will never forgive myself. Anyway, nothing seems to be working, including ECT which workd like a charm in the past. My current meds are:
>
> 300mg lamictal
> 65mg Strattera
> 5mg zyprexa
> 100mg elavil
>
> All taken PM.
>
> Xanax when needed.
>
> I have started taking a B-Complex and have fish oil but if I am going to get tested I don't want to take much of anything so that I can get a good idea of my levels without supplements.The most substantial impact of any supplement may come from the fish oil alone. Please don't hesitate. Tests may give a sort of intellectual satisfaction, but in any case, you have to verify that by actually doing supplement trials.
> Thanks for reading through all of this, I am just confused about where to start. Any advice would be much appreciated.
>
> IndieFeel free to ask as many questions as you want. I've barely scraped the surface with my comments. You didn't get sick in one day. Don't expect to get well in one day. Find the pieces of the puzzle that work for you. It's going to take a while, to do that.
Best,
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:367111
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040718/msgs/367343.html