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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 751 to 775 of 948. Go back in thread:
Posted by katia on October 17, 2004, at 15:14:46
In reply to Re: Hyponatremia with Trileptal, posted by fluffy on October 16, 2004, at 17:45:03
> Katia--
>
> I hope this doesn't sound too motherly...but I would say it isn't wise to go without one's meds.***Hi Katy,
Thanks for your concern. It doesn't sound too motherly. I probably need to be kept in check like this. So I've thought about your questions and want to answer. It's helpful for me to get clear.> 1) Do you really want to go through the hell you went through before them?
**NO! I guess b/c I have awareness about my moods now and my "condition", I can monitor it much better if I start to get worse.
I also am in a way different place in my life that is supporting health and balance. I don't have a big desire to drink. And after one or two, I don't even want anymore. I've turned a curve and feel quite empowered and feel like I'm stepping into who I can be. I've noticed since being on meds (that work) I revert back to the place I was when (pre-meds) I was somewhat normal. meaning, I go through cycles EVERY month of ups and downs all having to do with my period. So therefore, meds aren't touching that. they've helped me climb out of a serious depression, but in the first year they made me crazy (ADs) and cycle like I've never cycled before (so made me crazier). I think time also pulled me out of that depression, not just meds. I think it was good to get on Mood stabilizers for awhile.
But I also feel I'm in a different (I know this is going to sound WAYYYY California!), in a different place astrologically. Remember that work I did with that psychic a year ago? Well, she was right when she outlined what would be happening to me in the next year and what had been happening to me all my life. And it was all based on my astrological chart. I don't even really follow astrology, but I know she knew what she was talking about. She knew too much specifics. And what she said was that all my life has been unbalanced and balance is on the way and power. I can't tell you how much better I feel then I did a year ago (meds aside). I've done so much already too.
>
> 2) Once you go off meds, they may not work as well when you decide to go back on them. For me, Risperdal didn't have the same effect after having been off it, then returning to it again.**Very true. but I've not really found anything that works that well anyway. Trileptal has been the least offensive, but I'm still waiting to hear back from my good ole vacationing constantly pdoc. He still hasn't faxed over the request to get my blood drawn. I've been waiting a week.
And what I'm wanting to do is just reduce my amounts (being that I'm not hyponatremic). 1/2 everything I'm taking and see what happens. See if I feel less tired and feel more cognitively alert and creative.
> What specifically do you feel doesn't fit you in terms of your diagnosis? Rapid cycling is VERY REAL. I have it and feel its effects every day. It is entirely possible to have switched from depression one week to hypomania the next.
**Well, it's hard to say b/c I rapid cycled like a maniac since BEING on meds. Is this b/c of them? probably paritally so. probably also be/c I know now what rapid cycling is and I can identify in myself. Whereas before, I was just lost in the rollercoaster of emotion, so I wasn't able to see clearly and in hindsight cannot remember.
I suppose I'm having a hard time b/c it's all just speculation. There is no real test that says "yes, you are BP rapid cycler". It's speculation from a pdoc (in the medical paradigm community) who can only see this through one lens (his medical paradigm mindset). It's not everything to me. I believe that through that lens that I probably am BP. But human beings are way more complicated than a set of behavioral keys to point to a BP label. A part of me feels silly for believing at all that I'm BP. That is the part I'm not sure about. I almost feel like it's part of another phase I'm going through in my own definition of reality; but it won't stay real as such forever. I'll realize that I was fooling myself and taking the easy way out hiding behind a label and meds.
On the other hand, a part of me realizes that this illness/disorder is REAL and to have empathy for that too. And it takes a lot to get help and take meds and it has nothing to do with hiding at all.
So I guess you got me thinking and having to really define it and it's hard Katy. I'm not 100% sure what I'm feeling. I do know that I want less meds in my system. I'll reduce them as soon as I see what's going on with my blood work.
> I've been on meds for 4 years now, and it has been very rough at times. But I know that i would have been dead and gone by now if I didn't even have the hope of having SOME relief from my symptoms.
>
> I'm happy to say that I'm doing so much better on Seroquel. Right now I'm on .25mg Risperdal, 25mg Seroquel and 750mg Depakote. It feels right. I've had a very stable month, and I only seem to be improving.**GREAT! good news Katy. Seroquel has helped me tremendously with sleep. After you take it, do you get this relaxed feeling in your chest? Maybe that's my Trileptal...
>
> It sucks when you feel the effects of your disorder even though you are taking medication. My uneducated guess is that you might feel worse without the meds, though.
>
> And even though you may feel your doctor doesn't know anything--HE DOES. Often times, doctors will give you the reigns in your treatment to give you more control--it's a courtesy. (It used to drive me crazy that my doctor did this to me. But I know that if he didn't, I'd feel even more put out--that he is controlling my fate even though he has no idea how i feel, you know?) He would tell you if he didn't feel your choice was appropriate (if indeed he is a good doctor). Will you be seeing him anytime soon?**I also feel disheartened every time I go to see him. $115 for 25 minutes which I don't have. And I normally suggest what to take next. I never feel like I got my money's worth - EVER. I know he knows more than I give him credit for, but so what? I don't really hear much out of him and it's too expensive for me to do every month. I trust myself more than him and I'm free!
If I had all the money in the world than I would see him every month and take it with a grain of salt - food for thought. He is a nice man and gives me free samples every month, but the bottom line is....money and lack of...and the fact that I'm not completely sold on the dx.
I also get support from other things now. Like my dog's spirit (Rock - who died in July). He is giving me so much strength and clarity. I'm learning to listen to myself on an intuitive level and make better decisions/choices to enhance my health, not destruct it.
Thanks so much for your concern Katy.
Katia
Posted by katia on October 17, 2004, at 15:19:43
In reply to Re: Hyponatremia with Trileptal » katia, posted by Barbaracat on October 16, 2004, at 19:34:29
>
> > I know you went through a similar period prior to going back on Li. Maybe I need to see for myself how I do sans meds.
>
> **No doubt the meds are taking a toll. They always do and some of us are more sensitive. It doesn't sound like you're on a huge mix but maybe your body reached its limit. Then again, maybe you do have a flu, or have something else transitory going on. It's hard to separate out what's really going on and no way to know for sure. I personally feel that layering one med on top of the other is asking for trouble. There are too many unknowns.**That's interesting that you say flu. Because for the past two months, I've been complaining about the fact that I was on the verge of the flu or a cold. But it never materializes. Now after reading Katy's post, I realize it could be that hyponatremia symptoms. Feel free to read that post I sent to KAty. I meant it for everyone. That explains a lot for me.
>
> I'm on a bare minimum right now and want to keep it that way. Whatever it takes. I get white-knuckle times and deal with it on an as-needed basis. A few days zoning out on benzos usualy does the trick because so much of my stuff is anxiety triggered. Each time I come out on the other side of the nasty stuff, I learn to trust my own process a little more. Yeah, an as-needed basis is the best description.
>
> I just started on a wee dose of nortriptyline because I was getting some panic creeping in, probably because I've been so amped up working overtime to give the four letter creep the boot. But you know, Katia, even though I'm not feeling 100% and never expect to, I do feel like my body has less crud to deal with and I pass through the rough times easier and faster.**Yes, I feel like the less, the better too. What is nort.? Is that an AD?
> Even so, you know how hard it is to stop any med, especially when you're feeling unsteady to begin with. But yes, maybe it is time to taper off one thing at a time, keep a supply of downers available, and have patience knowing it will be a wild ride until you're stable.
>
> A good plan would be to get a support base ready, start following a regular schedule and habits, provide easy access to meals and healthy stuff - clear the decks and get your ducks in order. We're talkin' cutting way back on the swampjuice here. There's no getting around that one. Poo!
> >
> > Again, I'll ask you...are you coming to town for thanksgiving? If so, did you still want to meet up?
>
> **I sent a post a week or so ago saying yes, I am coming your way for Thanksgiving and yes, absolutely I'd love to see you. Wouldn't miss it! We'll exchange emails and all that real soon. - Barbara**How do you want to exchange emails? Do you want to give yours? I don't for public display here. I can always create one on hotmail for this purpose.
Katia
Posted by katia on October 18, 2004, at 15:39:38
In reply to Re: Hyponatremia with Trileptal, posted by fluffy on October 16, 2004, at 17:45:03
Hi All,
ok ok...something IS going on. Maybe I AM bipolar!Katy, do you ultrarapid cycle where you can go zippo hypo in one day and then slow down the following day? Anyone else?
Something was buzzing around inside of me yesterday. I'm a bit embarrassed at how outrageous I acted last night at work. But then again...people were laughing WITH me. I know my energy was contagious. It was an energy that took over - giddy, fun, energizing, wanting to be with people on top of the world feeling? And this was before - much before any alcohol. That's the other thing with this is my relationship to alcohol changes and becomes abusive. and I smoke cigarettes. A fellow worker commented on my behavior..."Katia's not addicted to alcohol or cigs, (because I normally don't have much, if any) she's addicted to naughtiness and mischief. She gets into that mood and then she drinks and smokes".
I also notice that when I ovulate, which I am now, I go a little crazy. I notice men more and want to go out and about and interact, flirt and so forth. Like my personal boundaries expand A LOT. and almost drop away. IS THIS HYPOMANIA?
Anyone out there who is dxed as bipolar, please tell me what your personal experience is with the feeling of hypomania...not the needing less sleep etc...the textbook stuff, but real true descriptions of what happens when it takes over. As my pdoc said, when you're in it, everything in you moves with it, so it's hard to see it for yourself.
The energy I felt last night/yesterday is almost too much for me to take. Like I'm spilling over with energy. But now, I slept six hours (that's not a lot for me) and I feel slower today.
I don't understand my mood swings! And I'm on medication...
Katia
trileptal 450mg
seroquel 12.5mg
Paxil 12.5mg
Posted by Barbaracat on October 19, 2004, at 0:05:38
In reply to Re: Hyponatremia with Trileptal » Barbaracat, posted by katia on October 17, 2004, at 15:19:43
> **Yes, I feel like the less, the better too. What is nort.? Is that an AD?
**Nortriptyline is one of the older tricyclic ADs. It's the best AD I've been on in terms of effectiveness. It pulled me out of a suicidal depression after my Mom died and I really liked the way I felt on it. I worry obsessively about everything when I'm going through my sh*t but on nortrip I have more of a que sera sera attitude without the SSRI flatline.
But alas, I felt like I was turning into a prune on it. Couldn't get enough water, my mouth was smacking when I talked, more constipation. That was at 75mg. This time I'm trying to stick with 25mg, along with 900mg St. John's Wort and 600mg lithium.
I was starting to feel panic attacks coming on recently, probably because I've been so amped up working on election stuff. I've learned to respect those panic attacks as being the herald of a really really bad one about to hit and I DO NOT want to ever go there again.
Maybe it's just placebo, but after a few days on nortrip I'm leveled out and no pasty mouth yet. Upping the lithium might seem obvious but I don't want more lithium side effects.
Katia, in your post to Katy you said you were going to halve your meds. Just my opinion, but that might be going too fast, especially with multiple meds. If it were me, I'd go real slow, like down by 1/4 every 3-4 weeks. It supposedly takes 3 weeks for the receptors to adjust. Anything faster than that puts a huge stress on your system.
The amino acid L-Taurine acts as a mood stabilizer at 1,000mg morning and night. Also magnesium, phosphatidyl serine or choline, and fish oil. All the usual vitamins and all, but those ones in extra amounts have helped me alot. www.iherb.com has good prices.
About your pdoc. Whew, I'd be a tad frustrated too at those prices, although them's the typical prices. Have you looked into a University hospital clinic? There's got to be another option than paying full price for someone you've been disappointed with for a while. But perhaps wait until you're stable on less meds. The last thing you need is to break in a new pdoc when you're adjusting med doses.
>
> **How do you want to exchange emails? Do you want to give yours? I don't for public display here. I can always create one on hotmail for this purpose.**Sure, that sounds good. I've been running around so much lately that I don't get to my email like I used to. But it's been good to push past my stuff for something as crucial as this election. - Barbara
Posted by Barbaracat on October 19, 2004, at 1:47:23
In reply to Hypomania and ovulation anyone? Experiences with?, posted by katia on October 18, 2004, at 15:39:38
Katia,
Yep, sounds like hypomania. I like what your pdoc said about it. OK, here goes. I have more energy, my thoughts come quicker, I make mental connections more easily. I start thinking of all sorts of neat ideas and things to do. I want to create, create, create. And damn, I'm good too. Colors are brighter, my artistic eye is more keen. I can multitask, keep many balls in the air. I'm brave and brazen too. I'll say audacious things that are funny and clever. I'm full of risque double entendres.Now this is all during the early stages, mind you. Things definitely get more disordered later on. But in hypomania I want to connect with people, party, dance. I feel like there's a swirl of magnetic energy around me that affects anyone who comes into it's orbit. It's festive, quicksilver, witty, effervescent. I've gotten groups of total strangers to sing chrismas carols on busses, do a conga line in a restaurant. I've been the first to jump off cliffs into the water. When I lived in lightning country, I used to walk for hours in lightning storms, feeling totally invincible.
I can become plugged into other realms. There's no doubt that a veil parts and my psychic attunement is intensified. Something opens psychically and this is not just bipolar delusion.
I think all this is actually a more exaggerated version of the 'real me', my healthy self who I like alot, the way I was when I was younger when it didn't morph into mania and then depression and the resulting timidity I've developed. I think hypomania amplifies gifts that are already there and perhaps fuels them with a load of adrenaline that takes away fear.
Moving on, if the voltage gets too high things can become very discordant and spooky. I get irritable and instead of sociable and gregarious I become snappish and start telling others my opinions of life, them, and everything whether they want it or not. I get sarcastic and mean. Especially if I'm drinking. Yes, the partying spirit of hypomania inevitably leads to alcohol, like gasoline on sparks (I also smoke when I drink).
Those brilliant ideas start crowding each other out and I start misplacing things and becoming frazzled. My thoughts get loud and chattering with mutliple streams happening at once. I can't keep one train of thought and can't complete anything and start to hate myself. My breathing becomes disordered and anxiety and insomnia get worse. It's like things start fracturing and spinning out of control and I become afraid. My hyper imagination sees terrible things happening to everything I love. It's so hard physically and a crash has to come. Hopefully it's only depression. I can live with depression where I sleep alot and feel like a grey blob. It's worse when my brain burns out but my body keeps revving. Mixed states hell. The trick is to ride the hypomania and then come back down to earth even though it's sooooooo much fun and we want to keep the buzz going.
There's a website that is interesting. www.waveriders.com. I got the book. She's bipolar and has learned to live with it without medication. She says that bipolars are tremendously gifted people and have to really get this and see it as a gift instead of a dx, and to learn to bring ourselves down out of the hypomanic stage before it builds to a crash. I've been using her suggesions and they're good.
So, my friend, maybe a bit premature to cut back on those meds, eh? - Barbara
Posted by katia on October 19, 2004, at 13:10:52
In reply to Re: Hypomania and ovulation anyone? Experiences with? » katia, posted by Barbaracat on October 19, 2004, at 1:47:23
>
> So, my friend, maybe a bit premature to cut back on those meds, eh? - BarbaraHi Barbara,
Well is it too premature? Was that hypomania for a day? The way you decribe YOUR experience, it does sound like it. But your experience sounds like it's over time. I went "hypo" in one day. and back again. And is that all it was? I'm on meds too. So that shouldn't really happen. Unless the Paxil is makingme CRAZY! Maybe it does have somethign to with ovulation.I'm sure you know the feeling...I went back into work yesterday "there's the troublemaker" (in a joking way)from one customer who came back in and another man showed up to just to say hi to me! I want to crawl under a rock. How could I expose myself like that is the feeling....not that I did anything but just became outward and flirtatious.
anyway, gotta eat something.
talk to you later.
Katia
Posted by Barbaracat on October 19, 2004, at 20:22:03
In reply to Hypomania for a day, posted by katia on October 19, 2004, at 13:10:52
Katia,
So, what did you do? Can-can on the tables? I don't know, of course, but I do know that this country is incredibly repressed and uptight. It's a shame we feel guilty when we're inspired to add a little spice to things. Maybe you were just in a wild and crazy mood for a day. I don't know, it seems anything that isn't a prim buttoned-down responsible little droid state gets labeled with a dx. We end up feeling bad about ourselves and this perpetuates the shame and stress.Whatever you do, don't you tuck your tail between your legs 'cause people pick up on that. Rocky wants you to be alpha and proud of it instead of cowering - no matter what!! You probably brought a laugh and some good cheer to folks who might have needed it. Be a Waverider and learn to flow with your unique colorful multifaceted personality.
That being said, Paxil at 12.5 doesn't sound like all that much, but my experience with it was not good at all. While I was on it I was cycling more rapidly than ever before. My pdoc kept bumpbing it up and only when we discontinued it did I start feeling better. I do OK on SSRIs for a bit and then things either poop or get weird.
Like I mentioned, I'm having a very good response to Nortriptyline at a teeny dose, so if you need an AD and Paxil isn't doing it for you, a good old-fashioned tricyclic may be in order. Plus it's cheap as dirt.
Katia, if you're skating on the edge of hypomania, not doing anything particularly stupid, and not falling into mania or depression afterwards, then what the heck, enjoy it and do your part to perk life up a bit for others. Call it animal magnetism, charisma, adventurousness, high energy, sexy. Some people would give anything to be that way, even for a day. - Lots o' Luv, Barbara
> >
> > So, my friend, maybe a bit premature to cut back on those meds, eh? - Barbara
>
> Hi Barbara,
> Well is it too premature? Was that hypomania for a day? The way you decribe YOUR experience, it does sound like it. But your experience sounds like it's over time. I went "hypo" in one day. and back again. And is that all it was? I'm on meds too. So that shouldn't really happen. Unless the Paxil is makingme CRAZY! Maybe it does have somethign to with ovulation.
>
> I'm sure you know the feeling...I went back into work yesterday "there's the troublemaker" (in a joking way)from one customer who came back in and another man showed up to just to say hi to me! I want to crawl under a rock. How could I expose myself like that is the feeling....not that I did anything but just became outward and flirtatious.
> anyway, gotta eat something.
> talk to you later.
> Katia
Posted by katia on October 20, 2004, at 2:04:47
In reply to Re: Hypomania for a day » katia, posted by Barbaracat on October 19, 2004, at 20:22:03
> Katia,
> So, what did you do? Can-can on the tables? I don't know, of course, but I do know that this country is incredibly repressed and uptight. It's a shame we feel guilty when we're inspired to add a little spice to things. Maybe you were just in a wild and crazy mood for a day. I don't know, it seems anything that isn't a prim buttoned-down responsible little droid state gets labeled with a dx.Hi B-Cat,
YES. that is my point. maybe I was just in a wild and crazy mood for the day. Do we have to label it with a dx?....
But then again, I know in my heart of hearts, that energy well and it's almost uncontrollable. And I LOVE IT! and am frightened of it. Nothing so much..that I did. it was just my energy -- you know that doing the conga and xmas carols...I love it!Who cares? I"m only human and am acting as such. Thanks for being the only one to reply to my post!! I wanted to hear other's experiences too with hypomania...maybe no one else is reading this.
Maybe I've scared them all away with my psychic talk...
Yes, Paxil...I think I'm getting weird! You know that feeling? You have to make yourself small and contain yourself - otherwise you end up charming the pants off of everyone and then can't live up to the image you created. This incredible dynamic in me of light and dark - polar opposites. Boils down to, I'm a sensitive soul and am affected easier than most and my moods reflect that as a symptom? Maybe I should try a tricyclic. When and why did you decide to start back again with it?
Good your spending so much time fighting "W". I'm getting pretty riled up over it too. It's easy and tolerable where I live because we ain't pro "W" here.
BTW, I am sponsoring a kitty at Best Friends. What a great place!!!
talk to you soon.
Katia
Posted by Barbaracat on October 20, 2004, at 12:20:00
In reply to Re: Hypomania for a day, posted by katia on October 20, 2004, at 2:04:47
Katia,
Oh good, you found Best Friends! I love their approach, focus on the heart-warming stories of the goodness of these little creatures instead of the horror stories. When I get a mailing from Best Friends, I look forward to opening it knowing I'm not going to be hit in the gut with pictures and stories of trajedy. They always get my money because it feels good to support their work.Best Friends is doing so much good and passing on this positive activism concept. I frequently ask myself the question 'well, do you want to handle this situation the Best Friends way or the PETA way?' Same intention, different approach. Who are you sponsoring?
About tricyclics: I first went on good old Elavil in my 20's, before there were SSRIs. It made me feel zonked. Tried a few others with the same effect. They lifted my depression but I hated the constant dopeyness. I don't know why nortriptyline is different but I get no cognitive side effects at all, just the dry mouth and constipation. But so far the lowest dose 25mg along with St. John's and lithium has elevated things nicely, although I'm still dealing with panic attacks now and then.
Panic disorder is the bane of my life. I'll go through a cycle of feeling suffocated, heart pounding, impending doom and insanity. It's hard to hear my own voice talking myself down. Usually at night when I'm trying to sleep. So, I'll just get up, read, take a benzo and be very good to myself until it passes, knowing that it eventually will. I used to doubt that I'd ever come out of it, 'this time I won't survive it' which escalates the adrenaline. I don't know if it's tied in to my 'bipolar dx' or a separate issue. BTW, tricyclics do not seem to aggravate hypomania the way SSRIs do.
I know about that wild energy. It pushes you, compells you to do something to express it, to show off, to entertain, to 'fix things', like a divine calling to inspire people to get off their duffs and be alive. It feels very alive and buzzing. So many gifted people, artists, actors, authors, etc., are bipolar and when you're hot, you're hot. And when you're not, you're not. Like you said, one day the energy is simply not there anymore and all the projects, all the promises made, all the good intentions, fall by the wayside uncompleted. You feel like a shell of this persona that people people have come to expect.
That's where my shame comes in, feeling like a flake afterwards because I can't follow through with commitments I made to others while in this expansive state. I can't call up the funnyness, the creativity, the motivation, and I feel drab.
What are the people like you spend most of your time with, like your friends, or at the restaurant? Is it an environment that supports the quiet introspective and sensitive Katia as well? Do you feel like you can be yourself, whoever that might be at the time? I personally think that waitressing is a great job for bipolars. You can be so many things. Just as long as you have the option to go and hide on the off no-energy days.
I think that alot of my conga, christmas carol days were a healthy but overboard response to working in a repressive high-tech corporate environment. It was like this rebellious adolescent took over and delighted in the shock value. Of course, it was hard to maintain the required professional stuffy image once you've pulled the CEO up to belly dance with you at a corporate function. Glad I'm out of that environment. It was sucking my soul dry.
You know, Katia, I definitely think that things that go haywire have a biophysical component that can be helped with meds. But it's not the whole story. There are so many aspects to us that need to be given voice. Who has the time and money to go through intense psychotherapy? That's where my spiritual practices and journalling help. The deeper I go, the more I reach that wall of pain and terror that must be dealt with one way or the other. I believe it's that bound up energy block that generates the imbalanced mood states, especially my panic disorder.
Sometimes when I'm feeling brave and centered, I go into that scary place in my meditations, try to just be with it and help it to feel safe and not so constricted. It's the best practice I know of but I haven't done it in a while. - Barbara
Posted by robz on October 20, 2004, at 13:16:42
In reply to Hypomania and ovulation anyone? Experiences with?, posted by katia on October 18, 2004, at 15:39:38
Hey! That same exact experience happened to me yesterday. I had so much energy and I was like talking to everyone really fast. I went to the gym and just ran and ran and ran, I was so hyper....It was crazy. I was wondering the same thing...AM I BIPOLAR. I am also getting my period and now today I feel kinda down and am having anxiety. I am confused as to what is going on. I am also on Meds...EffexorXR 37.5 MG, and Neurontin 600Mg.
You know when you are ovulating your body is wanting to reproduce. So you checkin out other men is just a part of your biological make up to make babies. Dont even worry about that. It just means you are young and healthy girl!!! Have fun with it...
Posted by katia on October 20, 2004, at 15:21:07
In reply to Re: Hypomania for a day » katia, posted by Barbaracat on October 20, 2004, at 12:20:00
> Katia,
> Oh good, you found Best Friends! I love their approach, focus on the heart-warming stories of the goodness of these little creatures instead of the horror stories. When I get a mailing from Best Friends, I look forward to opening it knowing I'm not going to be hit in the gut with pictures and stories of trajedy. They always get my money because it feels good to support their work.
>
> Best Friends is doing so much good and passing on this positive activism concept. I frequently ask myself the question 'well, do you want to handle this situation the Best Friends way or the PETA way?' Same intention, different approach. Who are you sponsoring?
**Hey Barb,
a cat named "Nob". i just sent in some minimal amt. of money. I do what I can...like the little grey kitty who hangs out here. It's starting to get cold and rainy out, so I need to do something. Neuter, shots, bed? He sprays if I let him inside. Maybe an outdoor kitty bed with a heating blanket (sheltered from the rain)?> About tricyclics: I first went on good old Elavil in my 20's, before there were SSRIs. It made me feel zonked. Tried a few others with the same effect. They lifted my depression but I hated the constant dopeyness. I don't know why nortriptyline is different but I get no cognitive side effects at all, just the dry mouth and constipation. But so far the lowest dose 25mg along with St. John's and lithium has elevated things nicely, although I'm still dealing with panic attacks now and then.
**Yes, panic attacks are the worst! very scary indeed. That's why I went on Paxil months ago b/c they were starting to creep in. They happen for me when there is that hysterical place of no sleep and stress. I'm going to get my blood work done tomorrow (electrolytes and blood sugar). And then we'll see if I should stay on all my meds or not. I doubt I'd try anything new like Nort. tricyclics may not work for me like you. We seem to not have similar experiences with meds.
> Panic disorder is the bane of my life. I'll go through a cycle of feeling suffocated, heart pounding, impending doom and insanity. It's hard to hear my own voice talking myself down. Usually at night when I'm trying to sleep. So, I'll just get up, read, take a benzo and be very good to myself until it passes, knowing that it eventually will. I used to doubt that I'd ever come out of it, 'this time I won't survive it' which escalates the adrenaline. I don't know if it's tied in to my 'bipolar dx' or a separate issue. BTW, tricyclics do not seem to aggravate hypomania the way SSRIs do.**Good for you for taking care of yourself during these times. It's a scary thing. I think my first panic attack happened for me FULL ON at the age of 15. I didn't know what was happening to me and had to tell my parents. They hadn't a clue what was wrong so my Mom "prayed" and put a statue of Mary near my bed!! Oh well. They offered all they could and knew, bless their souls. The second one happened right after that weeks later and I kept it to myself. It was very frightening..I think it was triggered by pot. I was "experimenting" and it was a Sunday night after a weekend of partying - tired/stressed. Marijuana is something I've never gotten into. i think it's be/c it makes me go into a panic attack rather than relax.
>
> I know about that wild energy. It pushes you, compells you to do something to express it, to show off, to entertain, to 'fix things', like a divine calling to inspire people to get off their duffs and be alive. It feels very alive and buzzing. So many gifted people, artists, actors, authors, etc., are bipolar and when you're hot, you're hot. And when you're not, you're not. Like you said, one day the energy is simply not there anymore and all the projects, all the promises made, all the good intentions, fall by the wayside uncompleted. You feel like a shell of this persona that people people have come to expect.**Yes, i know this well. The first time I experienced anything this full on was when I was 17 - a senior in high school. It was around Feb. and i convinced my mother that I was going on a school ski trip with another school forty miles away (it was the cool town). Somehow I managed it and she dropped me off at the bus and I got on and made so many friends right away - fit right in. The group leader was a fun man probably in his 30s or 40s and we hit it off (nothing sexual). I had a bad fake I.D. and I convinced him and others we had to go to the ski lodge bar (in Vermont) and live it up. Nothing was going to stop me from going to that bar - I got in with my bad fake ID charming the bouncer and then when we got there, it was dead. People were just sitting around...I immediately jumped on stage and grabbed the mike and dancing convincing everyone in the room to get up and party and dance. By the end of it, people were putting dollar bills in my pockets and the whole room was rocking. That leader said he's never seen anything like it...
In retrospect, IF i am bipolar, that was definitely my first hypomanic/manic experience and it lasted for six months. And then I crashed into a bad and serious depression around Sept/Oct on into the winter until Spring hit. But I never could shake that depression and I never had such a pure euphoric experience that lasted so long with mania/hypo? again after my senior year in high school and that summer. Probably b/c I started collecting too much baggage/dark stuff that I never processed..> That's where my shame comes in, feeling like a flake afterwards because I can't follow through with commitments I made to others while in this expansive state. I can't call up the funnyness, the creativity, the motivation, and I feel drab.
**that is a tough one. I almost want to hide my giddy charming self until someone knows me well and it's a bonus rather than what makes them like me or fall in love with me and then is disappointed afterwards. It fools people and they are disillusioned and I feel shame. I've learned the hard way about this. I literally and metaphorically do not let my hair down right away anymore. (I do have great hair by the way...:-) I'm more reserved.> What are the people like you spend most of your time with, like your friends, or at the restaurant? Is it an environment that supports the quiet introspective and sensitive Katia as well? Do you feel like you can be yourself, whoever that might be at the time? I personally think that waitressing is a great job for bipolars. You can be so many things. Just as long as you have the option to go and hide on the off no-energy days.
**Apart from a few people at work, it's toxic and unhealthy and it sucks my soul dry. I don't like it.
My friends are great and supportive of me and have seen all sides.take care!
Katia
Posted by katia on October 20, 2004, at 15:25:17
In reply to Re: Hypomania and ovulation anyone? Experiences with? » katia, posted by robz on October 20, 2004, at 13:16:42
> Hey! That same exact experience happened to me yesterday. I had so much energy and I was like talking to everyone really fast. I went to the gym and just ran and ran and ran, I was so hyper....It was crazy. I was wondering the same thing...AM I BIPOLAR. I am also getting my period and now today I feel kinda down and am having anxiety. I am confused as to what is going on. I am also on Meds...EffexorXR 37.5 MG, and Neurontin 600Mg.
**Hi,
Before my BP dx, I was on effexor and neurontin and I got a bit hypo. Maybe sometimes, we just have a lot of energy that needs to go somewhere; like Barbara says repressed energy.
>
> You know when you are ovulating your body is wanting to reproduce. So you checkin out other men is just a part of your biological make up to make babies. Dont even worry about that. It just means you are young and healthy girl!!! Have fun with it...**Yes I know, but I do get LOOPEY and crazy too. My pdoc said that some women experience a shift during this time of the month in their moods (along with PMS). So tell me then! When is the sane days? when is the damn relief!? for us BP women? I think I have about 5-6 sane centered days a month; not enough.
Katia
>
Posted by katia on October 22, 2004, at 15:09:35
In reply to Re: Hypomania for a day » katia, posted by Barbaracat on October 19, 2004, at 20:22:03
Hi,
just an FYI, my sodium levels seemed fine, which is good. I just got a phone call from my pdoc. He said my neutrophils (sp?) were slightly low and my lymphocytes slightly high. anyone know of this? (white blood stuff)He advised to cut back on the paxil too if I'm cycling.
So that's what I'll do and see what happens.
Katia
p.s. Barb - I just found out someone has written a book with me being one of the main characters in it. I knew her 8 years ago when I lived in Russia (with the Peace Corps). she basically and apparently slandered the heck out of me. Awful stuff coming up for me. It was a time I was in an awful depression and (in retrospect) cycling pretty badly and self-medicating with drinking. Isn't this awful? to be labeled and tagged in writing about a one-sided perspective coming from a self-righteous old biddy who likes to blame and point the finger in one of my most awful times of my life? Incredible....we can have a chat about it over thanksgiving!
Posted by katia on November 9, 2004, at 15:48:34
In reply to Re: Hypomania and ovulation anyone? Experiences with? » katia, posted by robz on October 20, 2004, at 13:16:42
Geez...anyone else feeling the clutches of depression since the days are shorter and since the election?
I'm really feeling it coming on and it's scary. I'm still on Paxil at 12.5mg and Trileptal at 450mg and Seroquel at 12.5mg, but this feeling is so familiar and I haven't felt it since last year and the years before. But the difference is I'm on meds and I STILL feel it. I just want to curl up in bed all day and am trying my hardest to not feed the depression. I feel it physically - reduced appetite, feeling like I want to throw up/tightness in throat and cry.
Oh boy...this sucks. WB doesn't work for me, effexor, zoloft, celexa, nor serzone and it looks as though maybe paxil isn't making a dent. Wouldn't it be nice to be a straightforward depressive who takes Prozac and feels like a new person....How to hide from the grips of darkness when I've tried so much already??
Katia
Posted by jujube on November 9, 2004, at 18:05:30
In reply to Needing support, posted by katia on November 9, 2004, at 15:48:34
You are not alone. Many people experience depression or a worsening of their depression when the days start to get shorter and they are exposed to less sunlight. I am sure you are aware that it is a true disorder and is referred to as Seasonal Affective Disorder. You might want to invest in a sun simulator or a light box. It is a device that produces light equal in intesity to natural sunlight. It is supposed to be effective for people with SAD. Although I like this time of year, I use one, and it seems to make a difference in my energy and sleep patterns. I have seen some posts in the past while about light therapy and sun simulators. It might be worth your while to do a search and see what others have said about it.
How long have you been on Paxil? Perhaps you need to talk to your doctor about increasing your dose during the darker months.
Hang in there, and try to take advantage of whatever sun and bright days there are. I wish you all the best, and hope you find relief soon.
Tamara
> Geez...anyone else feeling the clutches of depression since the days are shorter and since the election?
>
> I'm really feeling it coming on and it's scary. I'm still on Paxil at 12.5mg and Trileptal at 450mg and Seroquel at 12.5mg, but this feeling is so familiar and I haven't felt it since last year and the years before. But the difference is I'm on meds and I STILL feel it. I just want to curl up in bed all day and am trying my hardest to not feed the depression. I feel it physically - reduced appetite, feeling like I want to throw up/tightness in throat and cry.
> Oh boy...this sucks. WB doesn't work for me, effexor, zoloft, celexa, nor serzone and it looks as though maybe paxil isn't making a dent. Wouldn't it be nice to be a straightforward depressive who takes Prozac and feels like a new person....How to hide from the grips of darkness when I've tried so much already??
> Katia
Posted by katia on November 9, 2004, at 18:11:07
In reply to Re: Needing support » katia, posted by jujube on November 9, 2004, at 18:05:30
Hi,
I could buy a box. I'll look into it after I crawl back into bed for awhile and regain strength. I'm bipolar; so I haven't done well on ADs and mood stabilizers don't really get the depression. maybe a sunbox would help.I'm so cloudy today, I can't remember if I took my Paxil and so I just took it again and remembered I had. I'm actually worried the Paxil is making me crazy. I missed a dose a week ago and went through withdrawals; maybe that's contributing to my darkness. god it's a scary place to be in - it's totally gripping. I'm going to give it another day before I call my pdoc. This is powerful stuff that never seems to be affected by meds.
anyone ever hear of shamanic healing for mental illness?
Katia
> You are not alone. Many people experience depression or a worsening of their depression when the days start to get shorter and they are exposed to less sunlight. I am sure you are aware that it is a true disorder and is referred to as Seasonal Affective Disorder. You might want to invest in a sun simulator or a light box. It is a device that produces light equal in intesity to natural sunlight. It is supposed to be effective for people with SAD. Although I like this time of year, I use one, and it seems to make a difference in my energy and sleep patterns. I have seen some posts in the past while about light therapy and sun simulators. It might be worth your while to do a search and see what others have said about it.
>
> How long have you been on Paxil? Perhaps you need to talk to your doctor about increasing your dose during the darker months.
>
> Hang in there, and try to take advantage of whatever sun and bright days there are. I wish you all the best, and hope you find relief soon.
>
> Tamara
>
>
> > Geez...anyone else feeling the clutches of depression since the days are shorter and since the election?
> >
> > I'm really feeling it coming on and it's scary. I'm still on Paxil at 12.5mg and Trileptal at 450mg and Seroquel at 12.5mg, but this feeling is so familiar and I haven't felt it since last year and the years before. But the difference is I'm on meds and I STILL feel it. I just want to curl up in bed all day and am trying my hardest to not feed the depression. I feel it physically - reduced appetite, feeling like I want to throw up/tightness in throat and cry.
> > Oh boy...this sucks. WB doesn't work for me, effexor, zoloft, celexa, nor serzone and it looks as though maybe paxil isn't making a dent. Wouldn't it be nice to be a straightforward depressive who takes Prozac and feels like a new person....How to hide from the grips of darkness when I've tried so much already??
> > Katia
>
>
Posted by katia on November 9, 2004, at 18:12:45
In reply to Re: Needing support » katia, posted by jujube on November 9, 2004, at 18:05:30
Anyone ever hear or experience shamanic healing? I feel like I've got evil spirits around me - bad energy that is feeding off my energy making me drained. I feel cursed.
Posted by jujube on November 9, 2004, at 20:37:07
In reply to Re: Needing support » jujube, posted by katia on November 9, 2004, at 18:11:07
Katia,
I'm sorry that you are suffering. I am not
bi-polar, so I can only imagine what you are going through in terms of your depression, and my heart goes out to you. I, too, have experienced that feeling of darkness, and agree that it is very, very scary. It hit me like a ton of bricks when I was given an injection of Depo Provera. Everything in my life just went black, and I was on Effexor at the time because I was moderately depressed and anxious. So, I can relate to being on an AD and not having it work effectively when you fall into the pit. Although the Depo shot is wearing off, the depression won't lift. So, my pdoc has switched me to a TCA AD. I am a little nervous about taking it, but I can't go on like this much longer.I really think you should either call or get an appointment with your pdoc as soon as possible. You shouldn't have to suffer like this, and may require a med change or an dosage increase of your current med.
In the meantime, try to be strong (I know, easier said than done).
Take care.Tamara
> Hi,
> I could buy a box. I'll look into it after I crawl back into bed for awhile and regain strength. I'm bipolar; so I haven't done well on ADs and mood stabilizers don't really get the depression. maybe a sunbox would help.
>
> I'm so cloudy today, I can't remember if I took my Paxil and so I just took it again and remembered I had. I'm actually worried the Paxil is making me crazy. I missed a dose a week ago and went through withdrawals; maybe that's contributing to my darkness. god it's a scary place to be in - it's totally gripping. I'm going to give it another day before I call my pdoc. This is powerful stuff that never seems to be affected by meds.
>
> anyone ever hear of shamanic healing for mental illness?
> Katia
> > You are not alone. Many people experience depression or a worsening of their depression when the days start to get shorter and they are exposed to less sunlight. I am sure you are aware that it is a true disorder and is referred to as Seasonal Affective Disorder. You might want to invest in a sun simulator or a light box. It is a device that produces light equal in intesity to natural sunlight. It is supposed to be effective for people with SAD. Although I like this time of year, I use one, and it seems to make a difference in my energy and sleep patterns. I have seen some posts in the past while about light therapy and sun simulators. It might be worth your while to do a search and see what others have said about it.
> >
> > How long have you been on Paxil? Perhaps you need to talk to your doctor about increasing your dose during the darker months.
> >
> > Hang in there, and try to take advantage of whatever sun and bright days there are. I wish you all the best, and hope you find relief soon.
> >
> > Tamara
> >
> >
> > > Geez...anyone else feeling the clutches of depression since the days are shorter and since the election?
> > >
> > > I'm really feeling it coming on and it's scary. I'm still on Paxil at 12.5mg and Trileptal at 450mg and Seroquel at 12.5mg, but this feeling is so familiar and I haven't felt it since last year and the years before. But the difference is I'm on meds and I STILL feel it. I just want to curl up in bed all day and am trying my hardest to not feed the depression. I feel it physically - reduced appetite, feeling like I want to throw up/tightness in throat and cry.
> > > Oh boy...this sucks. WB doesn't work for me, effexor, zoloft, celexa, nor serzone and it looks as though maybe paxil isn't making a dent. Wouldn't it be nice to be a straightforward depressive who takes Prozac and feels like a new person....How to hide from the grips of darkness when I've tried so much already??
> > > Katia
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by katia on November 9, 2004, at 21:05:26
In reply to Re: Needing support » katia, posted by jujube on November 9, 2004, at 20:37:07
> Katia,
>
> I'm sorry that you are suffering. I am not
> bi-polar, so I can only imagine what you are going through in terms of your depression, and my heart goes out to you. I, too, have experienced that feeling of darkness, and agree that it is very, very scary. It hit me like a ton of bricks when I was given an injection of Depo Provera. Everything in my life just went black, and I was on Effexor at the time because I was moderately depressed and anxious. So, I can relate to being on an AD and not having it work effectively when you fall into the pit. Although the Depo shot is wearing off, the depression won't lift. So, my pdoc has switched me to a TCA AD. I am a little nervous about taking it, but I can't go on like this much longer.
>
> I really think you should either call or get an appointment with your pdoc as soon as possible. You shouldn't have to suffer like this, and may require a med change or an dosage increase of your current med.
>
> In the meantime, try to be strong (I know, easier said than done).
>
>
> Take care.
>
> Tamara
>Hi Tamara,
just out of curiosity, what does your depression feel and look like? I'm trying to gauge how bad mine is getting. Does yours shift for you if you have to work and the darkness just waits on the sidelines until you're alone again? I feel like my mood is spilling over and I look tired. People keep saying so. I have a day off and tried to be optimistic about the day and what i would get done, but nothing happened. I was too tired and dead feeling; like I just wanted to crawl back to bed.
I'm hoping that this is just today.
katia
Posted by katia on November 9, 2004, at 21:07:54
In reply to Re: Needing support » katia, posted by jujube on November 9, 2004, at 20:37:07
p.s.
How long have you been on effexor? I was on it two years ago before I was dxed as bipolar. it worked well for me at first and I even went a bit hypo, but then I crashed on about this time and then I had horrible withdrawal symptoms without even stopping the dose at all; all those things you hear about happened to me while I was on effexor. Even being, I would consider going on it again if it would lift this. It may be different since I'm on Trileptal as well.
Posted by jujube on November 9, 2004, at 21:25:55
In reply to Re: Needing support » jujube, posted by katia on November 9, 2004, at 21:05:26
> > Katia,
> >
> > I'm sorry that you are suffering. I am not
> > bi-polar, so I can only imagine what you are going through in terms of your depression, and my heart goes out to you. I, too, have experienced that feeling of darkness, and agree that it is very, very scary. It hit me like a ton of bricks when I was given an injection of Depo Provera. Everything in my life just went black, and I was on Effexor at the time because I was moderately depressed and anxious. So, I can relate to being on an AD and not having it work effectively when you fall into the pit. Although the Depo shot is wearing off, the depression won't lift. So, my pdoc has switched me to a TCA AD. I am a little nervous about taking it, but I can't go on like this much longer.
> >
> > I really think you should either call or get an appointment with your pdoc as soon as possible. You shouldn't have to suffer like this, and may require a med change or an dosage increase of your current med.
> >
> > In the meantime, try to be strong (I know, easier said than done).
> >
> >
> > Take care.
> >
> > Tamara
> >
>
> Hi Tamara,
> just out of curiosity, what does your depression feel and look like? I'm trying to gauge how bad mine is getting. Does yours shift for you if you have to work and the darkness just waits on the sidelines until you're alone again? I feel like my mood is spilling over and I look tired. People keep saying so. I have a day off and tried to be optimistic about the day and what i would get done, but nothing happened. I was too tired and dead feeling; like I just wanted to crawl back to bed.
> I'm hoping that this is just today.
> katiaKatia,
I am in a different situation since I have been taking some leave from work. I had a huge amount of sick leave in the bank, and have had to use it because I just wasn't functioning well. So, I guess I am fortunate in that regard. How did it feel? It's so hard to explain because I have never experienced anything like it before. I guess it was like being being buried alive. There is no light, only darkness. You are aware of things going on around you, but don't have the mental or physical strength to do anything. I cried every day for 1.5 months, and couldn't figure out why I was crying. But, I kept getting up every morning, getting dressed, taking my dog for a walk, trying to eat a little something. I tried to talk to a friend or family member every day, even when I didn't care if I saw or heard from anyone. And, surprisingly, although I am still down and not experiencing the joy and pleasure I normally experience in my life, the days are not as dark as they were. The light is starting to shine again, and the fear and worry are starting to subside. I know I will feel better soon, especially once I start the new med. You, too, have to hang on the hope and belief that you will feel better soon, and that the darkness will lift. Because, as any of us who have been through this know, the darkness does lift. I know it's hard, but try not to give into the darkness. And, don't worry about what others think, unless their concern is genuine and heartfelt. Contrary to popular belief, we don't have to be "up" all the time. If your pdoc isn't already aware how badly the shorter days affect your mood, you really need to bring it to his/her attention. It may require a dosage change this time of year.
Take good care of your self Katia. My thoughts are with you.
Tamara
Posted by jujube on November 9, 2004, at 21:37:21
In reply to Re: Needing support » jujube, posted by katia on November 9, 2004, at 21:07:54
I was only on Effexor for 6 months, and it wasn't a good fit for me. Although many people have a good response to it, it made me feel really apprehensive and apathetic. But that was just me, and we are all different in how we respond to medication. I am now on Celexa, and will be adding Anafranil (a TCA) soon. I am not knowledgeable enough about ADs to make a suggestion about a new AD for you. What I would suggest, however, is that you start a new thread and ask others with bi-polar which AD has been the most effective for them. You will probably get a lot of useful suggestions which you can raise with your pdoc.
Good luck to you.
Tamara
> p.s.
> How long have you been on effexor? I was on it two years ago before I was dxed as bipolar. it worked well for me at first and I even went a bit hypo, but then I crashed on about this time and then I had horrible withdrawal symptoms without even stopping the dose at all; all those things you hear about happened to me while I was on effexor. Even being, I would consider going on it again if it would lift this. It may be different since I'm on Trileptal as well.
Posted by katia on November 9, 2004, at 21:52:36
In reply to Re: Needing support » katia, posted by jujube on November 9, 2004, at 21:25:55
Hi,
Was this your first depression?Geez..now that i have awareness about myself; I realize I do become depressed in winter. It's amazing how this shift has happened suddenly for me. I will call the pdoc tomorrow and set up an appt. meds just don't seem to work for me though. maybe a sunbox would help. this is awful. I forgot how depression really felt.
Katia
Posted by jujube on November 10, 2004, at 8:07:39
In reply to Re: Needing support » jujube, posted by katia on November 9, 2004, at 21:52:36
Katia,
This is the second depression I have experienced. The first was 8 1/2 years ago, at a time when I was struggling with overcoming alcoholism. I am happy to say that I have been sober for now been sober for over 8 years.
What you are going through is awful. But at least you know now that what you are experiencing is an actual disorder, recognized by the medical community. It doesn't make it easier to deal with while you are going through it, but it may give you a some piece of mind knowing that you can get help for it.
I'm glad that you are making an appointment with your pdoc. I would also encourage you to start a new thread perhaps about Seasonal Affective Disorder to try and find out how others have dealt with it or are dealing with it. As I said before, you may need an AD dosage increase for this time of year, or a change in AD.
Hang in there, and take care of yourself.
Tamara
> Hi,
> Was this your first depression?
>
> Geez..now that i have awareness about myself; I realize I do become depressed in winter. It's amazing how this shift has happened suddenly for me. I will call the pdoc tomorrow and set up an appt. meds just don't seem to work for me though. maybe a sunbox would help. this is awful. I forgot how depression really felt.
> Katia
Posted by iris2 on November 10, 2004, at 12:29:49
In reply to Re: Needing support » jujube, posted by katia on November 9, 2004, at 18:11:07
Thought you might be interested. I heard of light bulbs that are full spectrum instead of a light box. It would be easier to use as you would not have to take time out to sit in front of the box but just use your everyday lamps in the house.
irene
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