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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 19 to 43 of 241. Go back in thread:
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 20, 2003, at 23:41:20
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on November 20, 2003, at 22:12:53
I have a hard time believing that, Dinah - I really think we all are. But what seems to be most important to you right now is primarily pre-sexual. It's such a strong indication of what a bad job your own mother did in providing you with security and that vital "sparkle in the eye" to let you know you really mattered, and that you were safe with her. One of these days, as we go along here, I wouldn't be surprised to be reading that Dinah suddenly found herself with a sexual transference- she'll be completely bowled over, and wonder where on earth it came from after all those years! Promise not to keep it a secret if it happens?
Pfinstegg
Posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 2:09:36
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 20, 2003, at 23:41:20
Chuckle. Well I'll be surprised!!! And so will my therapist I'll bet! Could I at least have it with someone else? (Euw, Euwwwww, Euewwwwwww!)
Posted by joslynn on November 21, 2003, at 9:58:28
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 2:09:36
I think there is some good to it...it has made me look at a wider variety of men I may not have noticed before, because my pdcoc is not the physical type I would have noticed before. My thinking now is, hey, maybe that average-looking man in his 40s could be just as nice as my pdoc, I should give him a chance. I never would have given my pdoc a chance romantically, if he was just a random single guy. And of course it will never be a romantic relationship, but the feelings were romantic, and sometimes still are. So, under that unassuming package was this nice, smart person who cares about me, maybe other unassuming packages have the same good stuff inside.
(Not that I was only attracted to GQ models, but I had this thick-haired, traditionally handsome type that always caught my eye, or a sensistive-ponytail-man type. Having a little crush on my pdoc has expanded my "type" beyond that.)
Posted by Deafmom on November 21, 2003, at 11:18:02
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 20, 2003, at 21:52:38
Pfinstegg,
That was very profound. Thanks. I know I should share my experiences, but I'm downright embarrassed. I mean, MAYBE I could manage saying that I feel like I'm in love with him, but to tell him I've had sexual fantasies about him??? Gosh, I just can't imagine doing that to anyone, let alone the man I look up to the most. But I sure wish I could. I should. I'll have to give it some thought.
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 21, 2003, at 14:09:10
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Deafmom on November 21, 2003, at 11:18:02
I have been telling him- it's an initially terrifying experience- you leave thinking that you can't believe what you just said! But he keeps pointing out that a vital part of therapy is allowing him to know what all my wishes and desires are. Somehow, it becomes something very profound and meaningful to do. It has nothing to do with actually having anything happen. In fact, the main point seems for me to know myself better, and trust him more with all parts of me. I have never regretted saying even the most intimate, private things to him- I think it's the things one doesn't know about, or can't say, which seem to cause those painful feelings of loneliness and shame. You could try it slowly, and see whether you have the same good experience that I've had. I think this is the area where the therapists really show their skill!
Pfinstegg
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 21, 2003, at 14:11:44
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 2:09:36
All things are possible, Dinah! You get to choose whether, when and who!
Pfinstegg
Posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 19:42:02
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist -Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 21, 2003, at 14:11:44
At the risk of giving too much information, I have a sexual aversion problem so severe that my therapist finds it hard to believe that I wasn't sexually abused as a kid. It fits in with so much of my pathology. He never digs or anything, or tries to get me to come up with something, but he does ask me from time to time if I'm telling him everything. I am.
But I find the idea of a sexualized transference highly unlikely. :)
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 21, 2003, at 20:33:48
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 19:42:02
I didn't mean to be flippant at all, Dinah, but I'm afraid I was. Because of your posts over time, I kind of knew that you did have an unexplained aversion- you're not alone in this at all, and I don't think it is necessarily caused by outright abuse (although it could be)- I think just an absence of good parenting, especially by a father, can do it. I guess I was just thinking and hoping that when you got more of the very early stuff worked out, as you are doing, that this would be the next big thing to deal with. I still do think that it will likely come up, but only when you are ready. Just allowing it to come up as an aversion is a very courageous step. Someone recently here quoted her therapist as saying something like, " if the part of you which can't talk, could, what would she say?" I think this is a wonderful question- it pushes us a bit into our unconscious memories, without being too intrusive- we won't be able to answer until we are ready, but I think questions like this help us get ready.. My analyst uses questions like that a lot; maybe the first 20 times I draw a blank, but then suddenly, an answer appears- not a memory of an event, so much as forgotten feelings- buried wishes and fears. It is initially so frightening that I have run out of his office and sat in the dark in his bathroom to try to calm down! But we keep at it, and it is getting better- less fear each week, and a sort of claiming of my own feelings- including all the ones towards him (not just sexual desire, but also childlike love and longing, rage and hate. Today I found mself saying, "I can actually tell you any feelings and desires I have!" He said, "yes, you can- that is one of the things I am here for". This has only REALLY dawned on me after eight months of therapy- I was trying to be open and candid before, just not TOO much so. Now, well...
Pfinstegg
Posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 21:29:06
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 21, 2003, at 20:33:48
Oh no, you weren't being too flippant at all. It was just on my mind because it was the topic of conversation at therapy today and I'm rather doubtful that I'll ever get past it enought to have an erotic reaction to anyone who isn't on screen or in books. :)
I think with the holidays coming up, I was trying to keep the conversation at something safe. Oddly enough, sex isn't a topic which is likely to distress me.
Posted by Jadah on July 13, 2004, at 19:16:32
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by karen_kay on October 27, 2003, at 14:39:12
I've been having an affair with my therapist. For five years I sounded and felt the same way all of you have. Now Im totally confused, even more hurt, and having difficulty seperating our romance from our therapy. It started off with my obsession with him. I couldnt give myself to anyone else, unless it was meaningless sex, and even then I fantasized about him, because HE had my heart. I was very open not only about how I felt about him (in love, jealous of his wife and two small children, obsessesed, possessive, not liking the fact that he had other clients, wanting all of his time.....)but also in sharing in EXPLICIT details what I wanted to do to him sexually (first mistake.) I began sharing these fantasies with him on a regular basis. I felt we, I, needed to get it out of my system because nothing would ever happened. I did notice that at these times his body was sexually responsive to what I was saying as well as to me. He would occasionally tell me that he "loved" me (I was in-love" with him), and began giving me a significantly more amount of time in the office as well as an occassional home visit when I'd call him in bad shape. It started off with hugs before I left the office, then led to sitting and holding me while I was upset. The holding slowly became more sexual then one day in the office IT just happened. I couldnt believe it. He struggled after the first time with the thought that he had cheated on his wife, crossed the ultimate boundary (one of his major rules), and his fear of hurting me and our theraputic relationship. Needless to say, although it still affects him, our sexual escapades have continued, (inconsistantly, as he tries to remain in control.) I hated knowing that he had to leave me to go home to his wife. I secretely wished for him to leave her and start a life with me. I know that will never happen, but everytime he gives in to me I grasp onto that hope again. Sometimes I hate him for giving me the most wonderful gift- Genuine LOVE. As a sexual abuse victim I went from not being able to have sex to having sex promiscuously. He showed me what making love is, how to withstand holding after sex without crawling out of my skin, feeling worth it.... I think it was theraputic in many ways but it has made the hurt even worse. Am I going to be with him today or not?, will hc call or come over tonight or not?, does he still feel the same way towards me?, did I ruin his marraige or make him run to her out of guilt?. The rejection is killing me slowly. I know he truly loves his wife and kids. At one point I told him I was ending therapy and that I had to cut him out of my life. I caved and came back. I would rather live with him in my life rather than without him at all, even if it hurts like hell. We are trying to balance things. Its very difficult. I have to face alot of painful realizations.... he IS married, he will Never leave her for me, we could Never be friends and hang out, I am his Patient..... I cry alot. I feel like I have this big hole in my stomach all the time. He fills it when I am with him but as soon as he's gone I hurt again (or even if he's there but not responding to my advances or I feel rejected). I dont know I could say that if I had the chance to do it over again that I would do anything differently. Its always did hurt to love him, so I take what I can get. Those of you who are in love with your therapists, do not ignore your feelings. It is important to PROCESS them with your therapist, it is natural, but as much as you want it, trust me, NEVER EVER allow yourself or your therapist to cross any lines. You'll only want and hurt more. Accept them for who they are supposed to be in your life- a helper, confidant. Anything else WILL destroy you and your theraputic relationship! Also, take a look at what it is you really want from them and how authentic it is. As real as your love may seem, you may just be trying to get a childhood need met, find acceptance, attention.... look at your motives. Do you always go after people you can't have? Is this a pattern for you? One thing I've learned, everything I have received from my therapist are things that I could apply to other people in my life in a healthy way, something I could not even conceive of years ago. Oh, one more thing, fantasies are ALWAYS better than the real thing, and noone can take that from you!;)
Posted by pinkeye on July 13, 2004, at 20:03:20
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Jadah on July 13, 2004, at 19:16:32
I am very sad to hear this. I think it is very wrong of him to do what he is doing. Atleast stop seeing him for therapy and instead find somebody else to help you through your recovery.
> I've been having an affair with my therapist. For five years I sounded and felt the same way all of you have. Now Im totally confused, even more hurt, and having difficulty seperating our romance from our therapy. It started off with my obsession with him. I couldnt give myself to anyone else, unless it was meaningless sex, and even then I fantasized about him, because HE had my heart. I was very open not only about how I felt about him (in love, jealous of his wife and two small children, obsessesed, possessive, not liking the fact that he had other clients, wanting all of his time.....)but also in sharing in EXPLICIT details what I wanted to do to him sexually (first mistake.) I began sharing these fantasies with him on a regular basis. I felt we, I, needed to get it out of my system because nothing would ever happened. I did notice that at these times his body was sexually responsive to what I was saying as well as to me. He would occasionally tell me that he "loved" me (I was in-love" with him), and began giving me a significantly more amount of time in the office as well as an occassional home visit when I'd call him in bad shape. It started off with hugs before I left the office, then led to sitting and holding me while I was upset. The holding slowly became more sexual then one day in the office IT just happened. I couldnt believe it. He struggled after the first time with the thought that he had cheated on his wife, crossed the ultimate boundary (one of his major rules), and his fear of hurting me and our theraputic relationship. Needless to say, although it still affects him, our sexual escapades have continued, (inconsistantly, as he tries to remain in control.) I hated knowing that he had to leave me to go home to his wife. I secretely wished for him to leave her and start a life with me. I know that will never happen, but everytime he gives in to me I grasp onto that hope again. Sometimes I hate him for giving me the most wonderful gift- Genuine LOVE. As a sexual abuse victim I went from not being able to have sex to having sex promiscuously. He showed me what making love is, how to withstand holding after sex without crawling out of my skin, feeling worth it.... I think it was theraputic in many ways but it has made the hurt even worse. Am I going to be with him today or not?, will hc call or come over tonight or not?, does he still feel the same way towards me?, did I ruin his marraige or make him run to her out of guilt?. The rejection is killing me slowly. I know he truly loves his wife and kids. At one point I told him I was ending therapy and that I had to cut him out of my life. I caved and came back. I would rather live with him in my life rather than without him at all, even if it hurts like hell. We are trying to balance things. Its very difficult. I have to face alot of painful realizations.... he IS married, he will Never leave her for me, we could Never be friends and hang out, I am his Patient..... I cry alot. I feel like I have this big hole in my stomach all the time. He fills it when I am with him but as soon as he's gone I hurt again (or even if he's there but not responding to my advances or I feel rejected). I dont know I could say that if I had the chance to do it over again that I would do anything differently. Its always did hurt to love him, so I take what I can get. Those of you who are in love with your therapists, do not ignore your feelings. It is important to PROCESS them with your therapist, it is natural, but as much as you want it, trust me, NEVER EVER allow yourself or your therapist to cross any lines. You'll only want and hurt more. Accept them for who they are supposed to be in your life- a helper, confidant. Anything else WILL destroy you and your theraputic relationship! Also, take a look at what it is you really want from them and how authentic it is. As real as your love may seem, you may just be trying to get a childhood need met, find acceptance, attention.... look at your motives. Do you always go after people you can't have? Is this a pattern for you? One thing I've learned, everything I have received from my therapist are things that I could apply to other people in my life in a healthy way, something I could not even conceive of years ago. Oh, one more thing, fantasies are ALWAYS better than the real thing, and noone can take that from you!;)
Posted by Dinah on July 13, 2004, at 20:08:20
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Jadah on July 13, 2004, at 19:16:32
I am so sorry this happened to you. A therapist should *never* do this to a patient entrusted to his care. It's inexcusable.
Posted by Deafmom on July 14, 2004, at 7:43:19
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Jadah, posted by Dinah on July 13, 2004, at 20:08:20
I wanted to thank you for being so open and honest about your feelings. I'm one who struggles with those feelings and it really did help to learn how one case scenerio turned out. I'm sorry that happened to you and I do appreciate your candor. It's hard to say, "Well, then I won't think abou tit," but at least your post is something I can come back to when I need it. Take care of yourself and please keep us posted as to how you are doing in recovery. :o)
Posted by gardenergirl on July 14, 2004, at 8:17:32
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Jadah on July 13, 2004, at 19:16:32
I just wanted to echo what others' said that this boundary violation is his doing, and should never have happened to you. Please consider finding a new therapist. This will allow you to again experience someone who's primary concern is you and your mental health.
Take care,
gg
Posted by Pfinstegg on July 15, 2004, at 11:58:27
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Jadah on July 13, 2004, at 19:16:32
I just wanted to add my voice to the others', and say I'm so sorry this happened to you. Even though there may have been an intermixture of a few positive things, these are things you achieved yourself through talking and sharing your feelings with him, and could have brought to a relationship of your own. You came to him for therapy; it's natural to have sexual desires for your therapist, and you were doing your part in being open and honest about them. He committed the most serious boundary violation there is.
I think we all appreciated your courage and candor in describing so clearly what happened. It had a powerful effect on me; I mentioned it to my analyst today. He said that there is a Boston-based organzation called TELL (Therapy Exploitation Link Line), which provides support for psychotherapy patients who have been sexually exploited by their therapists. He spoke highly of it, and I have complete trust in his judgement. You can contact them at tell@advocateweb.org. It is volunteer-run, and their web site indicated tht you might not get an immediate response, but that you will definitely get one. They are prepared to provide a lot of support to help you out of this situation.
Posted by Dinah on July 15, 2004, at 16:38:57
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Jadah, posted by Pfinstegg on July 15, 2004, at 11:58:27
Pfinstegg, thank you for sharing this. But I am so saddened that this happens often enough that such an organization is necessary.
Posted by Pfinstegg on July 15, 2004, at 16:44:52
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on July 15, 2004, at 16:38:57
me too, Dinah. I was shocked that there was one.
Posted by Deafmom on July 15, 2004, at 18:31:09
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on July 15, 2004, at 16:38:57
I really do feel bad that this was so painful, but I must be honest in saying that I still wish for it. Not that it would ever happen, but I'm just being honest. :o)
Posted by Jadah on July 15, 2004, at 19:07:32
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » tinydancer, posted by Dinah on October 10, 2003, at 7:10:36
I am soooo confused. My therapist is trying to keep things the way they were but we still have "unexpected" sex sometimes. It scares me because in the beginning he said that this couldnt go on because he would go insane from cheating on his wife. I want him so bad that I dont say 'NO", but each time we are together sexually I fear hes going to be the one to abandon me and say "I cant see you anymore". I would literally die without him. Its so hard to see him professionally and not want to be with him. Thank you for your resoponses. I was hoping to hear from you. I wanted to let you all know that it is one thing to have feelings but its another thing to act on them. I am just as responsible as he is. I led him on for years, slowly realling him in like a fish, preying of his weaknesses. His profession is one thing, but he is still a human with human emotions. Im not saying it is right what we have been doing, on the contarary, but it has taught me some valuable life lessons. I just want you all to know that your fantasies are real, normal, justifiable- hang onto them, but remember, your therapist is human, they are not a therapist 24-7. The more I got to know my therapist on a personal level the more I saw his mood swings, personal points of view, flaws. It was a major blow because I thought he was "perfect" . Sometimes I wish all I had were my fantasies, they were so much better when I was in control of things. I really believe that I was in love with the IDEA of him, which is not realistic in real life. I do understand where all of you are at in your feelings, I was once there too. Very confused and scared now, even though I do cherish those moments we share together.How much longer though before this all ends and I feel the ultimate hurt and betrayal???
Posted by Pfinstegg on July 15, 2004, at 19:43:36
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Jadah on July 15, 2004, at 19:07:32
According to what I read on the TELL site, patients almost always feel that they are responsible for sexual boundary crossings, whereas, in both legal and psychiatric terms, it is NEVER considered the patient's fault. It is the therapist's responsibility to make sure that it does not happen, no matter what desires and longings are talked about.
You are caught right in the middle of this intense experience, with longings to keep it going, extreme fears that it will end, and, I think you said, an awareness that it is preventing you from developing a relationship outside of therapy which would be truly yours. It sounds like you do really know that only pain, insecurity and eventual loss await you: you may eventually look back on these years of involvement with your therapist as lost years for you as a person. I can understand how extremely difficult it would be, but perhaps you would eventually be glad if you took a step back from it emotionally, and sought other sources of support. I do hope that you will consider that - I think it's a very courageous step to have posted about it here.
Posted by henrietta on July 15, 2004, at 19:44:23
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Jadah on July 15, 2004, at 19:07:32
No, you are not just as responsible as he is. This is abuse. Is a child responsible for the abuse an adult hands out? You are, in this relationship, as vulnerable as a child. He abused you! You are NOT responsible. Please get away from him as soon as possible and report him
so he can't abuse others. Please. Please. Do this. If not for yourself, then for others he will abuse in the future---and believe me, he will abuse others in the future.
I'm very very sorry this has happened to you.
Posted by pinkeye on July 15, 2004, at 19:45:37
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Jadah on July 15, 2004, at 19:07:32
Jadah,
Your posts go straight to my heart. I am sure many of us on this board feel the same.
I would suggest take one step at a time. Stop seeing your therapist for therapy first. And start seeing another therapist. It is awfully hard to continue to see your therapist on a professional basis and not feel attracted and have sexual relationship with him given what you have already done.
There is no point or need to blame him fully. He is a human and has done a mistake. But you don't have to continue to do the same thing again and again. Seeing you for further therapy is awfully awfully wrong on his part. And I am sure it won't produce you any good. Atleast go to somebody else for therapy. And gradually get yourself into a situation where you have the courage to let go of him. Otherwise, this constant fear will eat you alive.
Pinkeye.
Posted by tryingtobewise on July 16, 2004, at 1:04:51
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by pinkeye on July 15, 2004, at 19:45:37
Hi Jadah,
I really agree with Pinkeye's post above me. When you do get the courage to start pulling back from this situation, it will help to have someone (a new therapist I guess) to process this with.
I know you care for him, and you do not need to villify him (although I certainly think that is reasonable too :) ) but your mental health is suffering here and the pain of breaking things off might be worth going through in order to start putting things back together.
I have a strange situation with my therapist too though (my post is somewhere below) so I'm probably not the best one to talk!
Good luck and please take care!
Kim
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on July 16, 2004, at 14:47:53
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by tryingtobewise on July 16, 2004, at 1:04:51
Jadah,
When I'm in these predicaments, I always ask myself what advice I would give my child (I don't have one by the way) if she were in the same situation. If your daughter came to you with this problem, what would you advise her.
As corny as this sounds, my T has told me that I must become my own best friend, and even my own mother and father.
Can you approach the situation from this viewpoint?
Posted by Jadah on July 16, 2004, at 20:54:43
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » tinydancer, posted by Dinah on October 10, 2003, at 7:10:36
Again I want to thank you all for your wonderful input. It is very hard to let go. I am curious, for all of you that say you are in love with your therapist... if the opportunity arose, would you be strong enough to say "no", especially when this is the one person who you are closest to and have developed deep feelings for over time.I know it is difficult when I read all of your writings, I know how difficult and helpless it feels to want something/someone so bad yet you dont have any control. Could you put yourself in my shoes? What would that be like for you? I dont see our affair as an ultimate betrayal, because I love him and this is what I wanted. I just want him in my life, whatever that may be. We still do good work in therapy, its my feelings outside of that when I am not with him that hurts-always did. He taught me alot about love, about loving myself, about trusting someone when I am most vulnerable...that not all men are going to abuse me.... I dont mean to be contradictory to the responses I have received from so many of you. I know that you are all right in what you say, it is just going to be difficult to cut loose. I have noone else but him to talk to about this because he is married and I am not out to ruin his carreer because he loves me and is caught in this love triangle. I know it will end, we cant keep on like this, we both know it. I would hope then that we could go back to the way things were theraputically, he has given me more hope and met more of my psychological needs than anyone I have ever worked with in the past (which has been alot).Noone else would hold me when I cried and wipe my face. Noone else would kiss the scars I have all over my body that makes me ashamed. Noone else has ever known me so intimately on a psychological level. He has the most soothing voice and it reassures me that everything is going to be alright. Please do not look at this situation as being all bad. There is a middle ground if you could see what I am saying. The sex will stop eventually, we discuss it all the time. Part of the reason I write you is to let you know that this sort of thing does happen. Be careful what you wish for. Our relationship though, has made me want to be a better person, and I realize now that I am capable of loving someone else and am ready to search out a relationship with someone. I have definately grown. I know longer want to be just someones occassional sex thing for there pleasure. I know what it is like now to make love and i want more of that in a relationship. He has taught me alot, in all ways. Please do not get frustrated with me, but try to see the whole situation all the way through. Please keep responding, I look forward to all of your input. :)
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