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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Sara T on May 29, 2000, at 19:39:55
In reply to Re: Procrastination Syndrome?, posted by brian on May 29, 2000, at 17:48:09
> > Brian -
> >
> > Since procrastination is a hallmark of Adult ADD (not that I mean to imply that that is your problem), it might be useful to you to look at some of the techniques in books about ADD that address this very issue. Driven to Distration by Ratey and Hallowell is a great source, and there are others.
> >
> > One thing I got from that book was the rule, "Never handle something twice". That refers to paperwork. It means that you get a bill, you deal with it then and you don't have to go back to it. Of course, you need a workable system of doing things and that requires that the PHYSICAL space you work in be organized. Most important, too, is to break the dreaded task down into smaller parts and take it a step at a time. There are coaches, yes, people who can help you get started and keep going. Again, look up some of the ADD sites (CHADD, for instance) and you will see them listed. Once you have your "system" in place, you must not let it fall apart (easier said than done). Again, a coach can help.
> >
> > For me, ritalin has been a godsend because I often can't build up the forward momentum to get started on many things, much to my own detriment.The addition of the stimulant to my AD gets me up and going, but it isn't everything.
> >
> > Changing a lifetime of maladapive habits is HARD work. You have to be motivated to do it. In the end, the answer to procrastination is in our own hands.
> >
> > Sara T.
>
> Thanks Sara,
>
> It is hard work, no question about it. I have read a few books about ADD, including the one that you suggested. I'm not sure what mix of habits, psychology and chemicals make organization and motivation to attack large projects such a challenge for me.
>
> When I moved to NYC last summer, I tried dexetrine for awhile. Actually, I wasn't prescribed it; I just borrowed from a friend who has a prescription. I took it according to my friend's doctor's orders for him. I must say that it really did provide energy and motivation. It really seemed to clear out the fog. It also caused sleeplessnes if I took it too late.
>
> I am seeing a therapist in addition to taking celexa. I think I'll ask him about ADD comorbidity in anxiety/depression. I'll also see about getting some tips or help from him on working out an organizational system.
>
> The funny thing is -- and I'd be interested to hear if this describes you -- I can put forth a great amount of work for short bursts. I'm like life's sprinter. I'll excersize for 4 months, get in great shape, then just let it go. I can write when I absolutely need to -- I write for a living -- then I just get off track and way behind. In other words, I can follow a schedule for a while, but then I just drop it.
>
> Thanks for your suggestions. I'll definately look into this further.
>
> BrianBrian-
In short, YES. In fact that's the type of thing I do that's gotten me to the low place I'm in today. For example, I did a bang up job on my architecture thesis, but I failed to follow through with liscensure. I'm the soul of innconsistency, which is also one of those ADD traits. Its one of the things my husband complains most bitterly about, that I don't finish or follow through on important things. And, yes, I get myself organized and then let it all fall apart. I'm like that with exercize too.Bad news for a parent of a child like mine who needs considerable scheduling to keep him on track (he's mildly autistic, with ADHD and LD).
But I'm trying to learn and it is a day by day process, and when depression gets in the way I have to learn to pick myself up and get back on track again. That's what I'm working on with my therapist now.Depression, anxiety are commonly comorbid with ADD. If you look into it, be careful to go to someone with experience in Adult ADD.
Sara T.
Posted by S.D. on May 29, 2000, at 20:53:52
In reply to Re: Procrastination as Disease, posted by JohnL on May 26, 2000, at 3:51:03
>When I finally found the medication that
>treated my anhedonia, I became interested in
>everyday normal activities--including work. So,
>when I cured the anhedonia, it also cured the
>procrastination.Your description sounds much like my experience, except I still have the anhedonia/procrastination in spite of not otherwise being depressed (Parnate helped me eventually and I've been off it now a couple of months).
Was it the case for you that you continued to experience anhedonia even after other depression symptoms cleared (with or without meds)? What med is/was it that treated your anhedonia/procrastination?peace and health,
S.D.
Posted by Noa on May 30, 2000, at 11:47:56
In reply to Re: Procrastination Syndrome?, posted by medlib on May 29, 2000, at 13:05:22
Wow, Medlib. You expressed it so eloquently. Thank you.
Posted by Noa on May 30, 2000, at 11:53:07
In reply to Re: Procrastination Syndrome?, posted by Sara T on May 29, 2000, at 16:22:40
I agree with Sara that strategies written for people with ADD can help anyone dealing with procrastination, with or without ADD. I think many of us non-ADD folks could have benefitted from specific intervention/training in organizational strategies of the kind that some self-help books for ADD spell out.
Posted by Noa on May 30, 2000, at 11:54:48
In reply to Re: Procrastination as Disease, posted by S.D. on May 29, 2000, at 20:53:52
This aspect of procrastination makes sense to me, too. If an activity is not able to bring enjoyment of any kind, even just the ability to take pride in accomplishing a task, then the motivation to do the activity simply isn't there.
Posted by Noa on May 30, 2000, at 12:06:29
In reply to Re: Procrastination as Disease, posted by S.D. on May 29, 2000, at 20:53:52
Another aspect of procrastination for me these days is the sense of futility I feel. Normally, I would feel good about getting a job done, such as cleaning the apartment. It would feel like an accomplishment and I would feel good about acheiving it. Over time, as I became more chronically depressed and immobilized, the mess accumulated more and more. I would go a long time before cleaning it up, only to find that I let it get messy soon afterward. After a while, I started to feel, "why bother?" What is the point of putting out effort to correct it if I am just going to let it become a problem again soon. It is a feeling of hopelessness about being mired in a cycle. Of not feeling the effort is worthwhile, of not feeling any sense of power to achieve real change.
Posted by brian on May 30, 2000, at 12:24:17
In reply to Re: Procrastination as Disease, posted by Noa on May 30, 2000, at 12:06:29
> Another aspect of procrastination for me these days is the sense of futility I feel. Normally, I would feel good about getting a job done, such as cleaning the apartment. It would feel like an accomplishment and I would feel good about acheiving it. Over time, as I became more chronically depressed and immobilized, the mess accumulated more and more. I would go a long time before cleaning it up, only to find that I let it get messy soon afterward. After a while, I started to feel, "why bother?" What is the point of putting out effort to correct it if I am just going to let it become a problem again soon. It is a feeling of hopelessness about being mired in a cycle. Of not feeling the effort is worthwhile, of not feeling any sense of power to achieve real change.
I get that, Noa. In college I once constructed a long, lazy pseudo-philisophical argument against the "obsession to organize." I said that, us messy people are more in touch with reality, because eventually everything falls apart. Therefore, effort ultimately leads nowhere.
Ah, college! Those we're the days of King Subjectivity, when life's consequences we're measured in letters. Unfortunately, we "creative types" live in a world better suited to Felix Ungers.
I get in cycles where I just let things go. It's as though I temporarily lose the thread and just let life happen, like a neurotic buddha. Then I get back on my game and solemnly swear never to let the moss collect again. Until it collects, and life becomes again a passive verb.
What to do about these ebbs and flows. I haven't found an answer. Perhaps I'll go back to my "I'm right, society is wrong" way of thinking. The money sucks, but I sure did feel a lot better about myself.
Posted by JennyR on May 30, 2000, at 20:43:14
In reply to Re: Procrastination as Disease, posted by Noa on May 30, 2000, at 12:06:29
I recently went to a workshop on overcoming perfectionism. The presenter mentioned that many perfectionists are also procrastinators. I am definitely both. She said the reason is that a perfectionist doesn't want to do anything unless they are absolutely sure they can do it perfectly and completely. So they will put things off and put things off. This made a lot of sense to me.
Posted by CarolAnn on May 31, 2000, at 8:29:58
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Perfectionism, posted by JennyR on May 30, 2000, at 20:43:14
Jenny, your post makes sense to me, too. In fact, I often call myself, "the lazy perfectionist", because perfectionism is the primary reason that I procrastinate! Can you list any of the *ways* that the workshop suggested to overcome this problem? I would really appreciate it. Best wishes! CarolAnn
Posted by Noa on May 31, 2000, at 12:09:17
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Perfectionism(JennyR), posted by CarolAnn on May 31, 2000, at 8:29:58
One way I know of is to make a deal with yourself to work for a very limited amount of time, so that the goal is not to finish the task, which brings out perfectionistic tendencies, but just to start it.
An example is the timed cleaning routine that Janice (I think it was Janice) suggested to us. Set a timer and clean for 12 minutes maximum each day. Don't think in terms of completion. Just do the time.
Posted by Janice on May 31, 2000, at 16:52:57
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Perfectionism(JennyR), posted by Noa on May 31, 2000, at 12:09:17
and then you get the mental and emotional freedom.
Some tips from a converted (and I do mean converted) lazy, procastinating slob:
buy a digital timer
make the cleaning/organizing session short
and do it everyday
best to turn things into ritualsstart small.
If you have any questions, please ask
Janice
Posted by Cindy W on June 1, 2000, at 9:49:05
In reply to it's kind of like a jail sentence…just do the time, posted by Janice on May 31, 2000, at 16:52:57
> and then you get the mental and emotional freedom.
>
> Some tips from a converted (and I do mean converted) lazy, procastinating slob:
>
> buy a digital timer
> make the cleaning/organizing session short
> and do it everyday
> best to turn things into rituals
>
> start small.
>
> If you have any questions, please ask
>
> JaniceJennyR, CarolAnn, Noa, and Janice, I'm a procrastinator (due to both laziness and perfectionism) and also have OCD. You're so right that just starting is the hardest part. But I hate to make any more rituals (due to the OCD) so will just "do the time" I guess.--Cindy W
Posted by Janice on June 1, 2000, at 11:40:21
In reply to Re: it's kind of like a jail sentence…just do the time, posted by Cindy W on June 1, 2000, at 9:49:05
hi
the following example is what i mean by 'ritual':
as soon as you get home from work and hang your coat up…spend 10 minutes cleaning.
So EVERYDAY after hanging up your coat, you start cleaning. There are no questions about WHEN or HOW LONG you'll be cleaning for.
I'm not sure if this type of ritual could become an OCD issue Cindy. Maybe ritual isn't the right word for what I meant.
Hope your treefrog is well, Janice
Posted by KarenB on June 1, 2000, at 12:17:22
In reply to welcome back Cindy W…, posted by Janice on June 1, 2000, at 11:40:21
Hi Guys,
I've got to say, the hardest part for me is getting started. Once I do, my compulsive nature takes over and no dirt is safe. What I have done lately is pick one room or project and agree with myself to start it the following day, no matter what. It has worked. Last week, I re-organized my children's bedroom closet. Once I was going, I ended up organizing the hall closet and our bedroom drawers.
Another trick is not to let anything pile up - like someone said, don't handle anything twice. I throw away junk mail the minute I get it into my hands and rip off the payment stub of bills along with the envelope and put it in the "to be paid" drawer.
This doesn't seem like a big deal but I have found that if I have many things lingering in the back of my mind that need to be done, it creates a constant, low level of stress that does not help with the fatigue aspect of my illness. If my environment is under control. I feel more in control, for what it's worth.
Karen
Posted by Noa on June 1, 2000, at 16:17:12
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Cleanliness, posted by KarenB on June 1, 2000, at 12:17:22
Karen, sounds good, and in the days before my depression took on its recent form, that worked for me, too. But it's a whole 'nother universe in here now.
Posted by Cindy W on June 2, 2000, at 0:57:48
In reply to welcome back Cindy W…, posted by Janice on June 1, 2000, at 11:40:21
> hi
>
> the following example is what i mean by 'ritual':
>
> as soon as you get home from work and hang your coat up…spend 10 minutes cleaning.
>
> So EVERYDAY after hanging up your coat, you start cleaning. There are no questions about WHEN or HOW LONG you'll be cleaning for.
>
> I'm not sure if this type of ritual could become an OCD issue Cindy. Maybe ritual isn't the right word for what I meant.
>
> Hope your treefrog is well, JaniceJanice, thank you very much for the welcome back! Will try your suggestion for making something I do routinely as a cue for cleaning (since my OCD isn't related to cleaning, and since my house is always a mess, it couldn't hurt!).BTW, the treefrog is doing marvelously!--Cindy W
Posted by KarenB on June 2, 2000, at 16:25:57
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Cleanliness » KarenB, posted by Noa on June 1, 2000, at 16:17:12
> Karen, sounds good, and in the days before my depression took on its recent form, that worked for me, too. But it's a whole 'nother universe in here now.
Noa,
I don't know where you are but if you are anywhere near Denver, I'll come over and help you clean up that mess. It would be an honor:)
I'm not kidding...
Karen
Posted by Noa on June 2, 2000, at 16:53:50
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Cleanliness, posted by KarenB on June 2, 2000, at 16:25:57
Karen, thanks! Not near Denver, tho. You are so kind.
You sound like an organized person. Maybe you could start a business helping people get their places together and develop a system to keep them clean.
Posted by Sara T on June 2, 2000, at 21:28:08
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Cleanliness » KarenB, posted by Noa on June 2, 2000, at 16:53:50
> You sound like an organized person. Maybe you could start a business helping people get their places together and develop a system to keep them clean.
There are people who do that.
Sara T
Posted by Cindy W on June 2, 2000, at 22:15:08
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Cleanliness, posted by KarenB on June 2, 2000, at 16:25:57
> > Karen, sounds good, and in the days before my depression took on its recent form, that worked for me, too. But it's a whole 'nother universe in here now.
>
> Noa,
>
> I don't know where you are but if you are anywhere near Denver, I'll come over and help you clean up that mess. It would be an honor:)
>
> I'm not kidding...
>
> Karen
Karen, is Denver too far from Central Coast of California? I have the same problem I think as Noa! Maybe Noa and I should make a pact to clean and to praise one another as we make progress or something (?).--Cindy W
Posted by Jennifer on June 3, 2000, at 5:35:55
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Cleanliness, posted by Cindy W on June 2, 2000, at 22:15:08
Karen, I think Cindy has the wrong idea. I live south of her, so I think you need a "vacation" out in California. Head out to Cindy's to clean her house (she can stay with me) and then we'll head to her house while you do mine! Of course this is a joke, but I tend to go in spurts with my cleanliness. One time things was just too much going on in life, and my house went downhill fast. There was a TON of stuff in my livingroom and on the floor blocking the front door, but it didn't matter because we always left through the garage. Came home to find my living room clean and had NO idea who did it. Later found out my mom used her key, and after she worked for awhile to shove the door open, she decided to clean it herself. Talk about embarrassing! That was the one and only time my mom came in without my knowing..apparently they were driving thru and needed to use the restroom. We have a new house now, and my mom DOESN'T have a key! Jennifer
> > > Karen, sounds good, and in the days before my depression took on its recent form, that worked for me, too. But it's a whole 'nother universe in here now.
> >
> > Noa,
> >
> > I don't know where you are but if you are anywhere near Denver, I'll come over and help you clean up that mess. It would be an honor:)
> >
> > I'm not kidding...
> >
> > Karen
> Karen, is Denver too far from Central Coast of California? I have the same problem I think as Noa! Maybe Noa and I should make a pact to clean and to praise one another as we make progress or something (?).--Cindy W
Posted by KarenB on June 3, 2000, at 11:32:29
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Cleanliness, posted by Sara T on June 2, 2000, at 21:28:08
> > You sound like an organized person. Maybe you could start a business helping people get their places together and develop a system to keep them clean.
>
> There are people who do that.
>
> Sara TThat is not a bad idea, Sara - thank you for that!
I am organized - it is a coping mechanism I have learned in order to deal with my ADD. If I am not using something or feel it has no value in my life, I get rid of it. Too much "stuff" is completely overwhelming to me. Problem is, when something is missing, my husband says, "Karen's been cleaning..." I can be kind of anal about this, so it's not ALWAYS a good thing.
My mom says she needs me to come to her house (in Florida) to help her throw things away. Geez, if I could make a service out of it and get paid for throwing things away, what could be better than that?:)
Karen
Posted by Sara T on June 3, 2000, at 12:36:22
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Cleanliness, posted by KarenB on June 3, 2000, at 11:32:29
> > > You sound like an organized person. Maybe you could start a business helping people get their places together and develop a system to keep them clean.
> >
> > There are people who do that.
> >
> > Sara T
>
> That is not a bad idea, Sara - thank you for that!
>
> I am organized - it is a coping mechanism I have learned in order to deal with my ADD. If I am not using something or feel it has no value in my life, I get rid of it. Too much "stuff" is completely overwhelming to me. Problem is, when something is missing, my husband says, "Karen's been cleaning..." I can be kind of anal about this, so it's not ALWAYS a good thing.
>
> My mom says she needs me to come to her house (in Florida) to help her throw things away. Geez, if I could make a service out of it and get paid for throwing things away, what could be better than that?:)
>
> KarenI really wasn't kidding, they're called professional organizers, people who come into your home or office and help you straighten up you space or your files.
But as for cleaning and taking out the garbage, that requires a cleaning service, which can be a good investment for some. I've know some people who cleaned houses and made pretty good money at it though.
Maybe you could coach others with ADD?
Sara T.
Posted by Noa on June 3, 2000, at 13:12:34
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Cleanliness, posted by Sara T on June 3, 2000, at 12:36:22
That's it. Karen will have to do a grand tour, with appearances in Floriday, California, the East Coast, etc. Organizing from Coast to Coast.
Karen, your business could be a sort of organizer/conceirge service. After you work with the client to develop a plan, you hire the cleaning service for them, etc. Then, you work with them to develop a long term approach, a system to stay organized. You could do follow-up visits to see how they are progressing.
Posted by Sara T on June 3, 2000, at 22:27:45
In reply to Re: KarenB's Millenium Tour, posted by Noa on June 3, 2000, at 13:12:34
> That's it. Karen will have to do a grand tour, with appearances in Floriday, California, the East Coast, etc. Organizing from Coast to Coast.
>
> Karen, your business could be a sort of organizer/conceirge service. After you work with the client to develop a plan, you hire the cleaning service for them, etc. Then, you work with them to develop a long term approach, a system to stay organized. You could do follow-up visits to see how they are progressing.That's sounds like a plan! What do you think Karen?
Sara T
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