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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by amyw on July 13, 2001, at 10:08:17
I am writing about my 19 year old son who I have written about before. He is has ADD and some OCD and depression and his experience is that adderall worked great for about a month and then pooped out and the same thing with concerta after two weeks. He feels as if his brain is not working correctly nad has trouble thinking and having any initiative at all. He had had a binge eating disorder that has been a lot better, but this lack of mental energy is awful. He also is on zoloft 50 mgs and has tried so many things. The dosage has been upped and changed and it is as if he gets immune to it. We have tried many docs and are just trying a new one who is open to our ideas - how unusual that is......
He also seems to do worse when he drinks diet soda and seems to be very chemically sensitive. Please write back if you ahve had experience with this. THere is a phenomenon where people build up a tolerance to stimulants, but he is getting pretty dioscouraged.
Posted by Andy123 on July 13, 2001, at 10:52:32
In reply to stimulant tolerance - help, posted by amyw on July 13, 2001, at 10:08:17
> I am writing about my 19 year old son who I have written about before. He is has ADD and some OCD and depression and his experience is that adderall worked great for about a month and then pooped out and the same thing with concerta after two weeks.
>He feels as if his brain is not working correctly nad has trouble thinking and having any initiative at all.Is this from rumination or just anergy?
>He had had a binge eating disorder that has been a lot better, but this lack of mental energy is awful. He also is on zoloft 50 mgs and has tried so many things. The dosage has been upped and changed and it is as if he gets immune to it.
I have had very good results with effexor + stimulant. Others around here seem to have also.
> He also seems to do worse when he drinks diet soda and seems to be very chemically sensitive.3 amino acids compete with tryptophan for entry across the BBB. As I'm guessing you know, phenyl-alanine is one of them. I think acid hydrolysis of "nutrasweet" leaves an available form of this amino acid. Experimentally, diets with reduced tryptophan content can initiate depression/anxiety.
>Please write back if you ahve had experience with this. THere is a phenomenon where people build up a tolerance to stimulants, but he is getting pretty dioscouraged.
Here is my 2 cents worth of unqualified opinion:
1. Nobody should be taking stimulants unless they have a fair amount of antioxidants in their diet. 2. I've had moderate success with phosphatidyl serine for stimulant tolerance. Keep away from any supplement that mixes it with other things like any choline precursors.Really it sounds like your son needs more aggressive antidepressant therapy and not more stimulants. To qualify that: whenever i've taken stimulants during a period of affective difficulty, the result has been poor. That is a pretty typical trend, I think. Stimulants in general shouldn't be taken when there is unmedicated (or poorly medicated) anxiety or agitated depression. The OCD/depression description of your son's condition lead me to believe that he is probably ruminating. If he is stuck in an "analysis paralysis" then stimulants will worsen his overall condition. The affective difficulties should be treated completely and to remission before stimulants are used.
Posted by jojo on July 13, 2001, at 12:28:21
In reply to Re: stimulant tolerance - help, posted by Andy123 on July 13, 2001, at 10:52:32
> > I am writing about my 19 year old son who I have written about before. He is has ADD and some OCD and depression and his experience is that adderall worked great for about a month and then pooped out and the same thing with concerta after two weeks.
> >He feels as if his brain is not working correctly nad has trouble thinking and having any initiative at all.
>
> Is this from rumination or just anergy?
>
> >He had had a binge eating disorder that has been a lot better, but this lack of mental energy is awful. He also is on zoloft 50 mgs and has tried so many things. The dosage has been upped and changed and it is as if he gets immune to it.
>
> I have had very good results with effexor + stimulant. Others around here seem to have also.
>
> > He also seems to do worse when he drinks diet soda and seems to be very chemically sensitive.
>
> 3 amino acids compete with tryptophan for entry across the BBB. As I'm guessing you know, phenyl-alanine is one of them. I think acid hydrolysis of "nutrasweet" leaves an available form of this amino acid. Experimentally, diets with reduced tryptophan content can initiate depression/anxiety.
>
> >Please write back if you ahve had experience with this. THere is a phenomenon where people build up a tolerance to stimulants, but he is getting pretty dioscouraged.
>
> Here is my 2 cents worth of unqualified opinion:
> 1. Nobody should be taking stimulants unless they have a fair amount of antioxidants in their diet. 2. I've had moderate success with phosphatidyl serine for stimulant tolerance. Keep away from any supplement that mixes it with other things like any choline precursors.
>
> Really it sounds like your son needs more aggressive antidepressant therapy and not more stimulants. To qualify that: whenever i've taken stimulants during a period of affective difficulty, the result has been poor. That is a pretty typical trend, I think. Stimulants in general shouldn't be taken when there is unmedicated (or poorly medicated) anxiety or agitated depression. The OCD/depression description of your son's condition lead me to believe that he is probably ruminating. If he is stuck in an "analysis paralysis" then stimulants will worsen his overall condition. The affective difficulties should be treated completely and to remission before stimulants are used.It has been my experience that stimulant resistance
is delayed for years while one is taking an
adequate dose of an SSRI, and if and when it does
develop, switching stimulants is effective.
Ritalin, Adderall, Desoxyn, and Dexedrine (immediate
release tablets) have been effective for many
years while taking Prozac or Celexa at adequate doses
(20 mg of Prozac or 20-40 mg Celexa).
Posted by Grouch on July 13, 2001, at 21:20:33
In reply to Re: stimulant tolerance - help, posted by Andy123 on July 13, 2001, at 10:52:32
> Here is my 2 cents worth of unqualified opinion:
> 1. Nobody should be taking stimulants unless they have a fair amount of antioxidants in their diet. 2. I've had moderate success with phosphatidyl serine for stimulant tolerance. Keep away from any supplement that mixes it with other things like any choline precursors.Andy,
Just curious... where did you get the idea to use phosphatidyl serine for stimulant tolerance, and can you explain pharmacologically how it may work?
Also, how do the antioxidants interact with stimulants. I've heard that taking vitamin C with adderall is actually a BAD idea (reduces absorption).
Posted by Andy123 on July 14, 2001, at 7:24:15
In reply to Re: stimulant tolerance - help » Andy123, posted by Grouch on July 13, 2001, at 21:20:33
> Andy,
> Just curious... where did you get the idea to use phosphatidyl serine for stimulant tolerance, and can you explain pharmacologically how it may work?
> Also, how do the antioxidants interact with stimulants. I've heard that taking vitamin C with adderall is actually a BAD idea (reduces absorption).Hi Grouchie,
Yes, vitamin C taken before amphetamine does reduce drug absorption. I take it at night.
Concerning the phosphatidylserine:
Klinkhammer, P. Szelies B and Heiss WD. "Effect of phosphatidylserine vs. placebo in patients with early dementia of the Alzheimer type." Eur. Neuropsychopharmacol. Vol.2, #2, pg. 149-155. (this is a dutch publication I haven't read myself, but its results are desribed in Ward's "Smart Drugs II."
The article suggests that phosphatidylserine increases receptor expression, among other activities.
Concerning the anti-oxidants: I'll get back to you on this :) It could very well be that this is just wishful thinking. My intuition tells me its worthwhile though.
Posted by Zo on July 14, 2001, at 16:44:14
In reply to Re: stimulant tolerance - help, posted by Andy123 on July 13, 2001, at 10:52:32
> I have had very good results with effexor + stimulant. Others around here seem to have also.
Me too.
> > He also seems to do worse when he drinks diet soda and seems to be very chemically sensitive.
Aspartame messes with the brain cells. . .Like we*need* that.> Stimulants in general shouldn't be taken when there is unmedicated (or poorly medicated) anxiety or agitated depression.
> If he is stuck in an "analysis paralysis" then stimulants will worsen his overall condition. The affective difficulties should be treated completely and to remission before stimulants are used.
In my experience, both can be done together. . .Unless you are using the AD alone to titrate dose.
Also, Dexedrine ORDERS and SMOOTHS my thought process, rather than increasing rumination. I know, this seems counter-intuitive, but that's the whole point of stimulants. . for long and interesting reasons / theories I won't go into here.
Best,
Zo
Posted by Grouch on July 14, 2001, at 21:28:46
In reply to Re: stimulant tolerance - help, posted by Andy123 on July 14, 2001, at 7:24:15
> Hi Grouchie,
> Yes, vitamin C taken before amphetamine does reduce drug absorption. I take it at night.> Concerning the phosphatidylserine:
> Klinkhammer, P. Szelies B and Heiss WD. "Effect of phosphatidylserine vs. placebo in patients with early dementia of the Alzheimer type." Eur. Neuropsychopharmacol. Vol.2, #2, pg. 149-155. (this is a dutch publication I haven't read myself, but its results are desribed in Ward's "Smart Drugs II."
> The article suggests that phosphatidylserine increases receptor expression, among other activities.Alrighty... I'll take your word for it. :^) (Or I'll have to get a copy of "Smart Drugs II".) I'm vaguely familiar with phosphatidylserine for treating alzheimer's/cognitive problems & possibly depression, but had never heard of it being used this way w/stimulants before.
> Concerning the anti-oxidants: I'll get back to you on this :)
Heh, looking forward to it....
Grouchie
Posted by AndrewB on July 16, 2001, at 0:54:46
In reply to Re: stimulant tolerance - help » Andy123, posted by Zo on July 14, 2001, at 16:44:14
Stimulant tolerance is common. I haven't found a clear explanation of what causes it but it does involve hyperglutaminergic activity, let's say in the VTA. Going further with this idea, the VTA acts somewhat like a gatekeeper to the the dopaminergic system's mesocortical pathway. This pathway connects dopamine neurons in parts of the limbic system with dopamine neurons in parts of the cortex. Most notably, the shell of the nucleus accumbens in the limbic system to the prefrontal cortex. These areas are associated with apathy/motivation, attention/concentration problems, extroversion/detachment, and anhedonia/enjoyment.
Anyway, my personal experience is that Memantine completely prevents adderall poop-out/tolerance. Memantine is a non-competive NMDA antagonist. As such it keeps glutamate activity within the normal (safe) physiological range. My interpretation is that Memantine not only prevents poop-out but also prevents cellular damage due to hyperglutaminergic activity. Some of the damage due to hyperglutaminerigic activity is due to increased oxidative stress within the cell.
It should be noted that increasing dopamine metabolism in itself increases oxidative stress. Since amphetamines increase dopamine metabolites, cocommitment use of an antioxidant protocol may be prudent.
The protocol would specifically consist of: 1) a general phyto-nutrient/ antioxidant formula (i.e. Super Nutrition brand's "Super Blend", 2) 1 to 5mg. of selegiline (deprenyl)/day, 3) 300mg./day of Alpha Lipoic Acid, 4) N-acetylcysteine (NAC) and 5) Acetyl L-Carnitine. For both of the latter two supplements take1,000 mg. in the morning and 1,000 mg. in the evening.
For further information, and good place to order most of these items, go to DAAIR, a Buyer's Club serving the HIV infected population (website: http://www.daair.org/DAAIR/MEMBINFO.NSF). Memantine requires a doctor's prescription, insurence will not cover its cost, and, yes, it is expensive.
Best wishes,
AndrewB
Posted by Grouch on July 16, 2001, at 20:36:40
In reply to Re: stimulant tolerance - what to take for, posted by AndrewB on July 16, 2001, at 0:54:46
Andrew, thanks for the helpful explanation. I've read some of your previous posts about memantine with much interest. I respond well to Adderall but develop tolerance within a week or so, which makes it impractical.I don't know much about NMDA antagonists. Do you know if the tolerance prevention property is exclusive to Memantine, or could other more readily available NMDA antagonists also work?
> Stimulant tolerance is common. I haven't found a clear explanation of what causes it but it does involve hyperglutaminergic activity, let's say in the VTA. Going further with this idea, the VTA acts somewhat like a gatekeeper to the the dopaminergic system's mesocortical pathway. This pathway connects dopamine neurons in parts of the limbic system with dopamine neurons in parts of the cortex. Most notably, the shell of the nucleus accumbens in the limbic system to the prefrontal cortex. These areas are associated with apathy/motivation, attention/concentration problems, extroversion/detachment, and anhedonia/enjoyment.
>
> Anyway, my personal experience is that Memantine completely prevents adderall poop-out/tolerance. Memantine is a non-competive NMDA antagonist. As such it keeps glutamate activity within the normal (safe) physiological range. My interpretation is that Memantine not only prevents poop-out but also prevents cellular damage due to hyperglutaminergic activity. Some of the damage due to hyperglutaminerigic activity is due to increased oxidative stress within the cell.
>
> It should be noted that increasing dopamine metabolism in itself increases oxidative stress. Since amphetamines increase dopamine metabolites, cocommitment use of an antioxidant protocol may be prudent.
>
> The protocol would specifically consist of: 1) a general phyto-nutrient/ antioxidant formula (i.e. Super Nutrition brand's "Super Blend", 2) 1 to 5mg. of selegiline (deprenyl)/day, 3) 300mg./day of Alpha Lipoic Acid, 4) N-acetylcysteine (NAC) and 5) Acetyl L-Carnitine. For both of the latter two supplements take1,000 mg. in the morning and 1,000 mg. in the evening.
>
> For further information, and good place to order most of these items, go to DAAIR, a Buyer's Club serving the HIV infected population (website: http://www.daair.org/DAAIR/MEMBINFO.NSF). Memantine requires a doctor's prescription, insurence will not cover its cost, and, yes, it is expensive.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> AndrewB
Posted by AndrewB on July 17, 2001, at 0:52:16
In reply to Re: stimulant tolerance - what to take for » AndrewB, posted by Grouch on July 16, 2001, at 20:36:40
Sorry, no other suitable non-competitive NMDA antagonists to take at this time.
There are some other afferents on the dopamine neurons in the VTA that control NMDA activity, specifically of the opoid and nicotonic type. But can't with any clarity at all say whether an effective drug is available via these means.
Acamprosate may provide an a action such as memantine, sheer speculation though.
Maybe if the dosage was precise, a non-competitive antagonist like dextromethorphan might work.
At this point I can only say that memantine can work, everything else is a turkey shoot.
AndrewB
Posted by Grouch on July 17, 2001, at 20:58:12
In reply to Re: stimulant tolerance - what to take for, posted by AndrewB on July 17, 2001, at 0:52:16
Hmmm... two more questions for you:1) Do you have any side effects from memantine?
2) Do you know of anyone besides yourself who has tried a memantine/stimulant combo and what were their experiences?
> Sorry, no other suitable non-competitive NMDA antagonists to take at this time.
>
> There are some other afferents on the dopamine neurons in the VTA that control NMDA activity, specifically of the opoid and nicotonic type. But can't with any clarity at all say whether an effective drug is available via these means.
>
> Acamprosate may provide an a action such as memantine, sheer speculation though.
>
> Maybe if the dosage was precise, a non-competitive antagonist like dextromethorphan might work.
>
> At this point I can only say that memantine can work, everything else is a turkey shoot.
>
> AndrewB
Posted by Jean Paul on July 18, 2001, at 11:25:14
In reply to Re: stimulant tolerance - what to take for, posted by AndrewB on July 17, 2001, at 0:52:16
AdnrewB:
I have some questions for you; your answer will be much appreciated. As you know, I´m taking selegiline (2,5 mg) + Pemoline (18,75 mg) + Memantine (20 mg). Recently, I could access to aniracetam, and I decided to try it, with *great* results (although signs of overestimulation are more frequent since I have included this nootropic). But I´m not sure if its mecanism of action is compatible with memantine. Do you have info about mixing these substances?> Sorry, no other suitable non-competitive NMDA antagonists to take at this time.
>
> There are some other afferents on the dopamine neurons in the VTA that control NMDA activity, specifically of the opoid and nicotonic type. But can't with any clarity at all say whether an effective drug is available via these means.
>
> Acamprosate may provide an a action such as memantine, sheer speculation though.
>
> Maybe if the dosage was precise, a non-competitive antagonist like dextromethorphan might work.
>
> At this point I can only say that memantine can work, everything else is a turkey shoot.
>
> AndrewB
Posted by AndrewB on July 19, 2001, at 10:02:19
In reply to Memantine and Aniracetam » AndrewB, posted by Jean Paul on July 18, 2001, at 11:25:14
Jean Paul,
Is the Aniracetam and Memantine combo. safe? I can give you some general thoughts. Aniracetam is a one of a class of neurotropics of which piracetam is the oldest and best known. They are called neurotropics because of their ability to improve cognitive function to a very moderate degree in most healthy people and sometimes to a robust degree with a memory impaired person. Aniracetam and its analogues work by increasing glutaminergic activity in the hippocampus (they are very specific in their mode of action). Of this class of neurotropics, aniracetam is the most effective at increasing hippocampal glutaminergic activity. Hippocampal function, and specifically its glutaminergic activity, is one of the essential elements to memory function. Interestingly, a more powerful activator of hippocampal glutaminergic activity is in testing stages as a memory enhancer. It is called Ampalex. It increases glutaminergic activity by modulating one (of the three) glutamate receptors, the AMPA receptor. Remember, Memantine puts a physiological upper limit on glutaminergic activity via the NMDA glutaminergic receptor.
Aniracetam hasn't been associated with any neurodegenerative effects in studies. But then again, no longterm studies have been done to see if it could cause excessive glutaminergic hippocampal activity which could, over a period of years, damage the hippocampus. Memantine, I think would act as a 'safener'. That is a drug that insured that glutaminergic activity did not increase beyond the safe physiogical limits in the hippocampus. That being said, I seem to need 30mg.s of Memantine a day (20mg in the morning, 10mg. in the evening) for it to control Adderall's activity effectively. You could try a slightly higher dose and see if you have a more stable effect.
I have tried Aniracetam myself but without effect. I have never tried it with Memantine though. What kind of effect are you experiencing with Aniracetam. Is it strictly improved memory. Has cognition improved. Too what degree? Are there any non-cognitive efffects. I find this very interesting. Also, is there anything else new that you are experiencing with your med. combo. in general?
Best wishes and looking forward to your response,
AndrewB
Posted by AndrewB on July 19, 2001, at 10:13:10
In reply to Re: stimulant tolerance - what to take for » AndrewB, posted by Grouch on July 17, 2001, at 20:58:12
Grouch,
No side effects for me on memantine. In general side effects are rare with it.
Two other people I know have tried Memantine with a stim. Jean Paul, of the above post, and another person. The other person was taking dexedrine. Wasn't experiencing strictly stimulant poop out, but the memantine didn't help.
AndrewB
Posted by Jean Paul on July 19, 2001, at 15:19:40
In reply to Re: Memantine and Aniracetam » Jean Paul, posted by AndrewB on July 19, 2001, at 10:02:19
AndrewB:
Thanks for your post. I have experienced a dramatic effect from aniracetam. I find its (mild) cognitive-enhancement action very attractive; but other reasons for which I consider aniracetam useful is that combo´s stimulant profile is now cleaner and clearer, and side effects disappeared completely, *even* when I discontinue memantine. I began with memantine because I was having (mild) motor abnormalities, specially tics, and aniracetam not only allowed me to avoid these symptoms, but also improved the overall experience. Now I take aniracetam (150 mg) along with DMAE (200-300 mg/day). I experience mild but evident cognitive enhacement, but not strictly memory improvement; also (and specially) experience increased alertness and attention. Thinking process is more consistent than ever before. I find "adaptogen" propperties in aniracetam, since it allows myself to have deeper contact with outer events; it seems to raise mental decodification of perception and, thus, improves reaction and promotes a behaviour better connected with sorrounding reality. I think that this may not be valid for aniracetam taken alone, without the other stimulants. But it certainly much improved the effects I used to get from the combo. Now I´m not sure if memantine is necessary because the symptoms for which I included it in the combo are present no more. Aniracetam is said to promote an enhanced cholinergic activity; I suspect that motor abnormalities when taking dopaminergic drugs could be related with an imabalance between dopaminergic and cholinergic systems (both related with motor coordination), and perhaps that is the reason why symptoms disappeared when I began to take cholinergic-activity stimulants (DMAE and aniracetam). But this is just an especultation, not a serious hypothesis. The fact is that I get very good results from this nootropic, despite the fact I don´t know underlying reasons.
> Jean Paul,
>
> Is the Aniracetam and Memantine combo. safe? I can give you some general thoughts. Aniracetam is a one of a class of neurotropics of which piracetam is the oldest and best known. They are called neurotropics because of their ability to improve cognitive function to a very moderate degree in most healthy people and sometimes to a robust degree with a memory impaired person. Aniracetam and its analogues work by increasing glutaminergic activity in the hippocampus (they are very specific in their mode of action). Of this class of neurotropics, aniracetam is the most effective at increasing hippocampal glutaminergic activity. Hippocampal function, and specifically its glutaminergic activity, is one of the essential elements to memory function. Interestingly, a more powerful activator of hippocampal glutaminergic activity is in testing stages as a memory enhancer. It is called Ampalex. It increases glutaminergic activity by modulating one (of the three) glutamate receptors, the AMPA receptor. Remember, Memantine puts a physiological upper limit on glutaminergic activity via the NMDA glutaminergic receptor.
>
> Aniracetam hasn't been associated with any neurodegenerative effects in studies. But then again, no longterm studies have been done to see if it could cause excessive glutaminergic hippocampal activity which could, over a period of years, damage the hippocampus. Memantine, I think would act as a 'safener'. That is a drug that insured that glutaminergic activity did not increase beyond the safe physiogical limits in the hippocampus. That being said, I seem to need 30mg.s of Memantine a day (20mg in the morning, 10mg. in the evening) for it to control Adderall's activity effectively. You could try a slightly higher dose and see if you have a more stable effect.
>
> I have tried Aniracetam myself but without effect. I have never tried it with Memantine though. What kind of effect are you experiencing with Aniracetam. Is it strictly improved memory. Has cognition improved. Too what degree? Are there any non-cognitive efffects. I find this very interesting. Also, is there anything else new that you are experiencing with your med. combo. in general?
>
> Best wishes and looking forward to your response,
>
> AndrewB
>
Posted by Jean Paul on July 20, 2001, at 9:07:15
In reply to Re: Memantine and Aniracetam » AndrewB, posted by Jean Paul on July 19, 2001, at 15:19:40
I want to make you know that my answer is in the thread.
> AndrewB:
>
> Thanks for your post. I have experienced a dramatic effect from aniracetam. I find its (mild) cognitive-enhancement action very attractive; but other reasons for which I consider aniracetam useful is that combo´s stimulant profile is now cleaner and clearer, and side effects disappeared completely, *even* when I discontinue memantine. I began with memantine because I was having (mild) motor abnormalities, specially tics, and aniracetam not only allowed me to avoid these symptoms, but also improved the overall experience. Now I take aniracetam (150 mg) along with DMAE (200-300 mg/day). I experience mild but evident cognitive enhacement, but not strictly memory improvement; also (and specially) experience increased alertness and attention. Thinking process is more consistent than ever before. I find "adaptogen" propperties in aniracetam, since it allows myself to have deeper contact with outer events; it seems to raise mental decodification of perception and, thus, improves reaction and promotes a behaviour better connected with sorrounding reality. I think that this may not be valid for aniracetam taken alone, without the other stimulants. But it certainly much improved the effects I used to get from the combo. Now I´m not sure if memantine is necessary because the symptoms for which I included it in the combo are present no more. Aniracetam is said to promote an enhanced cholinergic activity; I suspect that motor abnormalities when taking dopaminergic drugs could be related with an imabalance between dopaminergic and cholinergic systems (both related with motor coordination), and perhaps that is the reason why symptoms disappeared when I began to take cholinergic-activity stimulants (DMAE and aniracetam). But this is just an especultation, not a serious hypothesis. The fact is that I get very good results from this nootropic, despite the fact I don´t know underlying reasons.
>
>
>
> > Jean Paul,
> >
> > Is the Aniracetam and Memantine combo. safe? I can give you some general thoughts. Aniracetam is a one of a class of neurotropics of which piracetam is the oldest and best known. They are called neurotropics because of their ability to improve cognitive function to a very moderate degree in most healthy people and sometimes to a robust degree with a memory impaired person. Aniracetam and its analogues work by increasing glutaminergic activity in the hippocampus (they are very specific in their mode of action). Of this class of neurotropics, aniracetam is the most effective at increasing hippocampal glutaminergic activity. Hippocampal function, and specifically its glutaminergic activity, is one of the essential elements to memory function. Interestingly, a more powerful activator of hippocampal glutaminergic activity is in testing stages as a memory enhancer. It is called Ampalex. It increases glutaminergic activity by modulating one (of the three) glutamate receptors, the AMPA receptor. Remember, Memantine puts a physiological upper limit on glutaminergic activity via the NMDA glutaminergic receptor.
> >
> > Aniracetam hasn't been associated with any neurodegenerative effects in studies. But then again, no longterm studies have been done to see if it could cause excessive glutaminergic hippocampal activity which could, over a period of years, damage the hippocampus. Memantine, I think would act as a 'safener'. That is a drug that insured that glutaminergic activity did not increase beyond the safe physiogical limits in the hippocampus. That being said, I seem to need 30mg.s of Memantine a day (20mg in the morning, 10mg. in the evening) for it to control Adderall's activity effectively. You could try a slightly higher dose and see if you have a more stable effect.
> >
> > I have tried Aniracetam myself but without effect. I have never tried it with Memantine though. What kind of effect are you experiencing with Aniracetam. Is it strictly improved memory. Has cognition improved. Too what degree? Are there any non-cognitive efffects. I find this very interesting. Also, is there anything else new that you are experiencing with your med. combo. in general?
> >
> > Best wishes and looking forward to your response,
> >
> > AndrewB
> >
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
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