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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JohnX2 on February 21, 2002, at 17:29:08
Before I started Zyprexa I was worried that it
would make me really dizzy because it blocks a
alpha-1 noradrenaline receptor in a manner similar
to Serzone. But alas I found that Zyprexa does
not cause cognitive disfunction. Since then I
also have taken strong doses of Topamax and
also Neurontin without cognitive decline. Is
the Zyprexa helping?I was postulating differences between Serzone
and Zyprexa when investigating some thoughts
about allergies and depression. When I start
Serzone I get a really bad flush in my face and
I feel really dizzy. This is consistent with getting
a histamine shot. There is a histamine feedback
receptor that inhibits the release of histamine,
serotonin, noradrenaline, and acetylcholine. This
effect will cause a cognitive decline. I believe
on Serzone this effect can make one feel a bit
"drunk".Anyways both Serzone and Zyprexa still cause
weight gain by blocking the alpha-1 noradrenaline
receptor (makes you hungry). But Zyprexa has this
nice little widget that slightly antagonizes the
histamine "h3" feedback receptor and thus is a
pro-histaminergic medicine. I believe it will increase the
release of the monoamines noradrenaline, acetylcholine,
serotonin. Possibly this offsets any cognitive
declines from blocking the noradrenaline receptor.So now that I take Zyprexa, my pdoc puts me back
on Serzone and I predict that I wont get all drunk
and have hot flashes and I am correct.Ergo, I believe a pinch of Zyprexa (5 mg) can be
used as an adjunct to Serzone and maybe even
mood stabilizers to help with cognitive declines.Thoughts.
-John
Posted by petters on February 21, 2002, at 21:02:02
In reply to zyprexa a cognitive enhancer augment? interesting, posted by JohnX2 on February 21, 2002, at 17:29:08
>
>
> Before I started Zyprexa I was worried that it
> would make me really dizzy because it blocks a
> alpha-1 noradrenaline receptor in a manner similar
> to Serzone. But alas I found that Zyprexa does
> not cause cognitive disfunction. Since then I
> also have taken strong doses of Topamax and
> also Neurontin without cognitive decline. Is
> the Zyprexa helping?
>
> I was postulating differences between Serzone
> and Zyprexa when investigating some thoughts
> about allergies and depression. When I start
> Serzone I get a really bad flush in my face and
> I feel really dizzy. This is consistent with getting
> a histamine shot. There is a histamine feedback
> receptor that inhibits the release of histamine,
> serotonin, noradrenaline, and acetylcholine. This
> effect will cause a cognitive decline. I believe
> on Serzone this effect can make one feel a bit
> "drunk".
>
> Anyways both Serzone and Zyprexa still cause
> weight gain by blocking the alpha-1 noradrenaline
> receptor (makes you hungry). But Zyprexa has this
> nice little widget that slightly antagonizes the
> histamine "h3" feedback receptor and thus is a
> pro-histaminergic medicine. I believe it will increase the
> release of the monoamines noradrenaline, acetylcholine,
> serotonin. Possibly this offsets any cognitive
> declines from blocking the noradrenaline receptor.
>
> So now that I take Zyprexa, my pdoc puts me back
> on Serzone and I predict that I wont get all drunk
> and have hot flashes and I am correct.
>
> Ergo, I believe a pinch of Zyprexa (5 mg) can be
> used as an adjunct to Serzone and maybe even
> mood stabilizers to help with cognitive declines.
>
> Thoughts.
>
> -John
Hi John.I´m using Serzone toghter with Effexor. I have use Effexor + Remeron for two years. This combo was very good for my cognition. Because of excessive weightgain from Remeron I switched to Serzone.
Serzone + Effexor is good for the depression, but I have notice a clear cognitve decline after starting Serzone.
I have been on Serzone for five weeks. Can this side effect alliviate after some month?
I have also constipation from Serzone.Any ideas?
Sincerely...//Petters
Posted by JohnX2 on February 22, 2002, at 6:44:37
In reply to Re: zyprexa a cognitive enhancer augment? interesting, posted by petters on February 21, 2002, at 21:02:02
Petters,Last time I took Serzone, I was on it for 2 months
standalone and I never got relief from the cognitive decline.
I stopped the medicine after a car accident.Today I have started taking it 200 mg in 9 hrs
and have experienced no cognitive defects. I also
take 150 mg Lamictal, 5 mg Zyprexa, 1 mg Klonopin,
and 400 mg Topamax.I don't think the Klonopin or Topamax are helping
my cognition.Its also possible that the Lamictal is
helping me . Lamictal range bounds glutamate. The
alpha-1 adrenoreceptor is linked into glutamate
conductance and this is where Serzone may cause the
cognitive decline by blocking the alpha-1
noradrenaline receptor and lowering glutamate
conductance. Its also possible that my Zyprexa is
increasing Noradrenaline and Acetylcholine action
via its histamine action. I'm not sure if Serzone
is somehow adversely affecting acetylcholine via
a histaminergic mode of action, but if it did then
effexor may not help as it focuses mainly on
noradrenaline.Just my 2c. Maybe a pinch of Zyprexa would help
(easy to add on).
Lamictal may help, but that is a lot of work to
add on.Regards,
John
> Hi John.
>
> I´m using Serzone toghter with Effexor. I have use Effexor + Remeron for two years. This combo was very good for my cognition. Because of excessive weightgain from Remeron I switched to Serzone.
>
> Serzone + Effexor is good for the depression, but I have notice a clear cognitve decline after starting Serzone.
>
> I have been on Serzone for five weeks. Can this side effect alliviate after some month?
> I have also constipation from Serzone.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Sincerely...//Petters
Posted by Zo on February 24, 2002, at 22:44:16
In reply to Re: zyprexa a cognitive enhancer augment? interesting » petters, posted by JohnX2 on February 22, 2002, at 6:44:37
My own answer on the Serzone would be no, 'cause I just got stupider and stupider. I was very angry, it was just a waste of time, without even the feel-good blur of, say, Zoloft. But all the SSRIs dampen and blur me, I loathe and do very well without them. But Serzone actually was the worst.
I was pretty sharp on Zyprexa--tho I gained 50 lbs--and am even sharper on Lamictal. YMMV.
Zo
Posted by JohnX2 on February 24, 2002, at 23:05:35
In reply to Re: zyprexa a cognitive enhancer augment? interest » JohnX2, posted by Zo on February 24, 2002, at 22:44:16
Zo,
I crashed my car on Serzone do to dizziness and
drowsiness my 1st go around. It was one of the only
ADs that gave a sustainable response and fixed my
headaches. I'm now taking Lamictal as my primary mood
stabilizer. I just added Serzone again, and like all my
other medicines that I add to Lamictal , I never get
dumb. No dizziness or drowsiness on Serzone this time.
Same for Topamax that everyone bitches about. It seems that
Lamictal can stabilize the stupidity factor in other medicines.
Isn't that special?-John
> My own answer on the Serzone would be no, 'cause I just got stupider and stupider. I was very angry, it was just a waste of time, without even the feel-good blur of, say, Zoloft. But all the SSRIs dampen and blur me, I loathe and do very well without them. But Serzone actually was the worst.
>
> I was pretty sharp on Zyprexa--tho I gained 50 lbs--and am even sharper on Lamictal. YMMV.
>
> Zo
This is the end of the thread.
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