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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by BarbaraCat on November 21, 2002, at 10:49:36
In reply to Re: Just Diagnosed ad discontiouation » lostsailor, posted by BarbaraCat on November 12, 2002, at 22:45:28
I've experienced mind music for many years, not all the time and not even during any discernable blip in my mental state. Does it feel like you're wearning especially great stereo headphones and the music is very clear? Sometimes I wake up with it, almost on the tail end of a dream but can't remember it because it's so complex and layered. It's always very beautiful music of orchestral grandeur, soaring ecstatic choral passages with unpredictable and delightful musical turns of phrase. I feel like I'm totally present and marvelling at this rapturous enthralling music which is more real than anything in my surrounding. And then it fades away. I love having these private concerts and for a long time when I was young I believed the angels were joyfully singing among themselves and wondered I was able to hear their music. I didn't think it at all odd that no one else could hear it, only odd that I could. No matter what I'm emotionally feeling, this transcendant music can lift me and illuminate me and I wish it visited me more frequently. When it's gone, it visits and then vanishes like a deja-vu, and only an echo of a memory is left. I've come to be much more cynical and suspect that it's probably only a spiking auditory neuron. But what a lovely form for a dissident neural blip to take.
This is different from the buzzy crackling static I also hear when I'm frazzled and manic, but that's not so much a inner sound/music as it is a hollow ringing discordancy truly like the clanging of raw nerve endings banging against each other, or a blanket of murky brownish gray static electricity that creates interferrence patterns with all signals coming in and going out. Definitely not the sublime coherent sweetness as with the Angel's music.
Posted by Alylene on December 4, 2002, at 21:30:38
In reply to Cyclothymia & mood stabilizers, posted by andrewb on August 7, 1999, at 10:33:51
Help...After six great weeks of feeling completely normal, not depressed, and not manic, I have started to spike up toward hypomania...insominia, mind racing and high irritability. Anyway, I went to my psydoc and she put me on Zyprexa (2.5 mg) in addition to my 20 mg of Lexapro. But...she said that weight gain is probable. UGH! If this is true then I'll be back in the depths of depression in no time. Are there any success stories of taking Zyprexa and NOT gaining weight?
Posted by BarbaraCat on December 5, 2002, at 15:36:45
In reply to New Med Question, posted by Alylene on December 4, 2002, at 21:30:38
Why the heck are you on Lexapro? It sounds like you're having classic Bipolar II cycling, an absolute SURE THING eventuality with any antidepressant in the absence of a mood stabilizer. Zyprexa can be of help if it's the right med for you, but it can also affect dopamine which, if it's NOT the right med for you, will plunge you into a very scary place. Weight gain will be the least of your concerns. Hang in there and know that there's something not working with you med combo and royally screwing up your chemistry. Sheesh, if I was on that combo, I know I'd be in the throes of a schizoid mixed state frenzy. Have you read "Why your depression isn't getting better", Dr. M. Bartos yet? Read it. Your symptoms and probable solution are spelled out in black and white. This should be mandatory reading for any pdoc but go figure. - BarbaraCat
> Help...After six great weeks of feeling completely normal, not depressed, and not manic, I have started to spike up toward hypomania...insominia, mind racing and high irritability. Anyway, I went to my psydoc and she put me on Zyprexa (2.5 mg) in addition to my 20 mg of Lexapro. But...she said that weight gain is probable. UGH! If this is true then I'll be back in the depths of depression in no time. Are there any success stories of taking Zyprexa and NOT gaining weight?
Posted by sjb on December 6, 2002, at 8:55:47
In reply to New Med Question, posted by Alylene on December 4, 2002, at 21:30:38
I was more depressed on Zprexa, lethargic and the only exercise I was getting was driving to the bakery. I hated this med. I also do not think it is a safe drug unless one truly is pyschotic.
Posted by Alylene on December 8, 2002, at 21:53:13
In reply to Re: New Med Question » Alylene, posted by BarbaraCat on December 5, 2002, at 15:36:45
Thanks for your reply...I'll check out that book. I know that my history has made a made a definitive diagnosis of bipoloar difficult. My previous psyc doc was convinced that I had agitated depression, not a bipoloar disorder. Anyway, the lexapro was the ONLY thing that worked on the depression. For awhile I was on Risperdol too, but I was not showing any signs of mania, so they took me off of it. Anyway, the zyprexa has worked beautifully! I feel so good, I don't care if I gain weight. It took away the mind racing and irritability, but I still have good energy during the day and I can sleep at night. For now, this combination is definitely a good thing for me...I just hope it will carry me through the holidays!
Posted by BarbaraCat on December 18, 2002, at 16:49:42
In reply to Re: rapid cycling and mind noise, posted by FredPotter on November 17, 2002, at 22:40:19
> I have constant music in my head. I always thought my ability to hear all the individual instrumental parts in the Rite of Spring in my head was a gift, but perhaps it's an illness
Hmmmmm, The Rite of Spring. Now that's a heavy duty score to have burned into your brain-pan. Maybe you can request something like Beethoven's Symphony #6? Little randy Centaurs and Pan frollicking about have to be more enjoyable than those poor dinosaurs.
Posted by jimmygold70 on December 21, 2002, at 12:12:12
In reply to Re: rapid cycling and mind noise, posted by izle on November 14, 2002, at 22:38:38
Temporal lobe epilepsy does what you describe. Don't you take anticonvulsants ? They do work.
If this doesnt solve the problem, add a serotonin-dopamine antagonist. Zyprexa works best, followed by Seroquel and Geodon. Side effects are in the reverse order.
Good luck!
Jimmy
Posted by justyourlaugh on December 21, 2002, at 15:51:04
In reply to Re: rapid cycling and mind noise, posted by jimmygold70 on December 21, 2002, at 12:12:12
wow,
to me ,everything is too loud.
all smells are to strong-and make me ill.
i think i am seeing way too much(stuf that are not really there).
j
Posted by Jaye on February 14, 2003, at 8:53:52
In reply to Re: Question for Dr. Goldberg, posted by Cecilia on April 23, 2002, at 1:35:07
--->At 150 mg. I`m starting to have scary little memory blips where I forget what I was going to say for a second or two. Cecilia
---->Cecilia, not to make light of your situation, but are you by any chance under 50?
(Because over 50....?That's when you can't see, can't find your glasses, don't remember where you were going after you drive out the driveway, and you lose your train of thought in the middle of a conversation and laugh about it.)
best to you.
Jaye
Posted by zeliva on February 19, 2003, at 18:55:02
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by ThatGuyJohn on September 7, 2001, at 17:05:40
I was just diagnosed with cyclothymia. I was being treated for the last 3 mo. with major depression and anxiety (different Dr.) I am on 20mg Prozac and 25-50mg Seroquel at night for sleep. My problem is I am so down. I was having hypomania until the Seroquel and now I feel that I have no energy or intrest in anything. It is as if I need something to pick me up. I see my Dr. next week so any suggestions would be appreciated.
Posted by JohnL on February 22, 2003, at 10:20:57
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by zeliva on February 19, 2003, at 18:55:02
You could try replacing the seroquel with zyprexa. Try 2.5mg Zyprexa at first, with a likely targe range of 5.0 to 7.5mg. I think it could work out for you a lot better than seroquel. In clinical studies they are finding that there is something special about prozac and zyprexa together. This combo has worked well for me, while just about everything else out there either made me worse or had too many side effects. The prozac plus zyprexa combo is a real good one. Dump the seroquel in favor of zyprexa.
> I was just diagnosed with cyclothymia. I was being treated for the last 3 mo. with major depression and anxiety (different Dr.) I am on 20mg Prozac and 25-50mg Seroquel at night for sleep. My problem is I am so down. I was having hypomania until the Seroquel and now I feel that I have no energy or intrest in anything. It is as if I need something to pick me up. I see my Dr. next week so any suggestions would be appreciated.
Posted by zeliva on February 22, 2003, at 12:37:53
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by JohnL on February 22, 2003, at 10:20:57
I'm scared of talking zyprexa because of the weight gain side effect. My Doc has told me the same thing about the two meds together. He said zyprexa makes you fat he doesn't want me to take that unless it was the last resort. Thanks for the advise.
Posted by bozeman on February 22, 2003, at 19:43:06
In reply to Mind noise, posted by BarbaraCat on November 21, 2002, at 10:49:36
> I've experienced mind music for many years, not all the time and not even during any discernable blip in my mental state. Does it feel like you're wearning especially great stereo headphones and the music is very clear? Sometimes I wake up with it, almost on the tail end of a dream but can't remember it because it's so complex and layered. It's always very beautiful music of orchestral grandeur, soaring ecstatic choral passages with unpredictable and delightful musical turns of phrase. I feel like I'm totally present and marvelling at this rapturous enthralling music which is more real than anything in my surrounding. And then it fades away. I love having these private concerts and for a long time when I was young I believed the angels were joyfully singing among themselves and wondered I was able to hear their music. I didn't think it at all odd that no one else could hear it, only odd that I could. No matter what I'm emotionally feeling, this transcendant music can lift me and illuminate me and I wish it visited me more frequently. When it's gone, it visits and then vanishes like a deja-vu, and only an echo of a memory is left. I've come to be much more cynical and suspect that it's probably only a spiking auditory neuron. But what a lovely form for a dissident neural blip to take.
>
> This is different from the buzzy crackling static I also hear when I'm frazzled and manic, but that's not so much a inner sound/music as it is a hollow ringing discordancy truly like the clanging of raw nerve endings banging against each other, or a blanket of murky brownish gray static electricity that creates interferrence patterns with all signals coming in and going out. Definitely not the sublime coherent sweetness as with the Angel's music.
Barbaracat --
I have never talked to anyone else who even knew what I was talking about. I thought it *must* have been the angels, too. I mean, what else could it be? is what went through my mind. Yikes.bozeman
Posted by Tony P on February 23, 2003, at 1:17:29
In reply to Re: Mind noise » BarbaraCat, posted by bozeman on February 22, 2003, at 19:43:06
I've occasionally had grand cathedral music on the waking tail of a dream, as you say. I know a lot of my dreams have "background music".
My first waking experience with the phenomenon was when I was working as a grad student at nights in a laboratory with a lot of equipment that created a white noise background. I was pretty hyper (got on Librium, which was quite new at the time, but that's another story).
So working there alone at night, I would keep hearing this radio playing in one of the other rooms, which was perfectly possible since several of us had radios or tape players. I'd walk around looking for the radio, and never finding it. Oh, and the building was supposed to be haunted, too!
I was getting quite freaked, but finally something clicked, and I tried predicting the next song that the distant radio would play - and it did! I could change the tune at will from then on -- pretty handy, as this was before Walkmans.
Most people (even normies) can get a similar effect by tuning an FM radio to the noise between stations and listening with headphones. Most start to hear words emerging from the noise within a minute or so. Some times the words even seem to form a coherent message. Might lead to a whole new branch of psychoanalysis!
Tony P
-------------------------------
> > I've experienced mind music for many years, not all the time and not even during any discernable blip in my mental state. Does it feel like you're wearning especially great stereo headphones and the music is very clear? Sometimes I wake up with it, almost on the tail end of a dream but can't remember it because it's so complex and layered. It's always very beautiful music of orchestral grandeur, soaring ecstatic choral passages with unpredictable and delightful musical turns of phrase. I feel like I'm totally present and marvelling at this rapturous enthralling music which is more real than anything in my surrounding. And then it fades away. I love having these private concerts and for a long time when I was young I believed the angels were joyfully singing among themselves and wondered I was able to hear their music. I didn't think it at all odd that no one else could hear it, only odd that I could. No matter what I'm emotionally feeling, this transcendant music can lift me and illuminate me and I wish it visited me more frequently. When it's gone, it visits and then vanishes like a deja-vu, and only an echo of a memory is left. I've come to be much more cynical and suspect that it's probably only a spiking auditory neuron. But what a lovely form for a dissident neural blip to take.
Posted by HannahBeGood on February 23, 2003, at 19:37:39
In reply to Re: Mind noise, posted by Tony P on February 23, 2003, at 1:17:29
I usually experience auditory hallucinations of the musical sort when on p-stims. If I try to go to bed earlier than usual in a quiet house is when I am more aware of them. For me, it's almost always like an FM radio is on, extremely low, but I can often recognize the song, which will tend to repeat itself. Can be very annoying, but I usually can filter it out enuf to fall asleep. But I always sleep w/a small fan going. I've been dependent on 'white noise' for sound sleep for a couple of decades.I also have one olfactory hallucination which I have had recurrent since childhood, when I wd. have it a few times a year. The smell is an artificial, chemical sort, not noxious or unpleasant, only, always the same, and always unidentifiable. Nowadays, I may only have it once every 2-3 years, it only lasts about 5-6 seconds and then disappears, and I have not connected it to anything---ever!
I used to have migraines, but since being on regular preventive meds, and reducing my alcohol intake, they have faded significantly. I still have the visual aura fairly often, however--mine is a blurred diagonal from thetop right of my vision fielddown to the very left. It always moves slowly across my vision field, like a tube of moving water. It can take 10-60 minutes to make its complete course. Sometimes there are dozens of points of light, very bright, which fade as soon as they appear, in very quick random fashion, like fireworks, but always white. This part never lasts more than a few seconds. And I often have the stars w/o the water or vice versa. Just the stars rarely leaves me feeling any pain, but the diagonal aura type almost always leaves me with a dull, fuzzed out headache that requires some med and a nap.
But, no migraines since I seriously dropped my alcohol intake over the past 6 years. And, I no longer want to drink, either. It used to be my self-medicating mainstay. If I was in a social situation, I was totally miserable and silent w/o my glass of wine in my hand.
Now, I am very pleased that my current cocktail of lexapro, klonopin, propanolol and dexedrine seem to address my former fears and inhibitions, and I can feel far more comfortable these days. It has taken years to find a p-doc who relized that the p-stim was a necessity for my brain to be fully alert and awake and the only way any A-D was ever going to be effective. (I have ADD, dx'd about a year ago, and it has caused or exacerbated my lifelong bouts of depression, anxiety and social inhibition).
I expect p-stims, klonopin and propanolol, in varying dosages will be a mainstay in my future.
I can live with this, since they improve my quality of life so radically.Hannah
Posted by alylene on February 24, 2003, at 13:14:52
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by zeliva on February 22, 2003, at 12:37:53
> I'm scared of talking zyprexa because of the weight gain side effect. My Doc has told me the same thing about the two meds together. He said zyprexa makes you fat he doesn't want me to take that unless it was the last resort. Thanks for the advise.
I had the exact same fear, however I did end up taking a small dose of Zyprexa and did not gain weight. I was starting to get extremely manic (after three months of severe depression) I had several sleepless nights and severe agitation.
Anyway, I felt better immediately on Zyprexa (combined with Lexapro, which I have been on for over six months). However after about two weeks my hands started trembling so bad every morning that I had to stop taking it. Now I take Zonnegram in conjunction with Lexapro, and I have not felt this good in years! I wouldn't be afraid to try the Zyprexa just because of weight gain.
Good Luck!
Posted by KrissyP on February 25, 2003, at 0:30:44
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by alylene on February 24, 2003, at 13:14:52
I took Zyprexa when I was receiving shock treatments. I only had 9, but I do remember Zyprexa made my appetite increase big time! Maybe there is another alternative if your weight-gain concern is powerful-I know mine was, and it doesn't help the situtaion any.
Best of luck to you!
Posted by BarbaraCat on February 25, 2003, at 12:38:50
In reply to Re: Mind noise » BarbaraCat, posted by bozeman on February 22, 2003, at 19:43:06
I'm convinced it is tuning into another realm. This particular music is too coherent and enjoyable to be due to mind static, which has a very different quality. I think we who have these sensitive brains are compensated in many ways we don't always notice or appreciate. Fear gets in the way and murks up the instrument and we're left with static. But every so often, a pure wavelength get through and we hear it, see it, sense it, whatever. Most mystics, shamans, etc., have gone through intense depressions and darkness and despair before breaking through to the other side, as though their great gifts had to be forged in some way.
I think the practice is to be open to and aware of these subtle currents. Our brains are certainly sensitized, but the crazy experiences are so much more crude, blaring and in your face than the quieter ones that come with the Angels.
> I have never talked to anyone else who even knew what I was talking about. I thought it *must* have been the angels, too. I mean, what else could it be? is what went through my mind. Yikes.
>
> bozeman
>
Posted by Jaye on February 25, 2003, at 20:09:55
In reply to Re: Mind noise » bozeman, posted by BarbaraCat on February 25, 2003, at 12:38:50
I heard someone say they thought they had a religious experience, but then it turned out to be a brain-thing.
We can all joke about angels, but how else would they communicate with us except through our brains/minds. The connection has not changed over the centuries, it's just that we now know the words neuron, synapse, etc. : )
Posted by SeaShell on April 27, 2003, at 19:03:23
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia & mood stabilizers, posted by Cynthia on August 7, 1999, at 16:31:34
Cynthia,
My daughter has been seeing psychs for years with no real diagnosis. She is fifteen and it sounds like her most recent psychologist thinks she may have cyclothymia. The problem is she doesn't want to be on meds but everyone is encouraging her to do so. I would like for her to be medicated too because I want her to have as near a normal life as is possible. Can you write me back, so she may read your response, and tell her your experiences and how medicine has helped you. She sees her psychiatrist this coming Fri. and I really want her to be open-minded about trying something that may help her. She was on Seroquel but it didn't really leave her feeling in control of her life and she still had her ups and downs. Also, Sean and Andrewb can you give her some encouraging words and insight into why it's important to take medication?
Shelley
Posted by Jaye on April 28, 2003, at 5:54:13
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by SeaShell on April 27, 2003, at 19:03:23
I just wanted you to know that I have been down a similar road with my daughter. She is now 22 and much better. it was a wild ride through the teen years with her. The teen hormones seem to really magnify the problems. If you ever what to email back and forth, I'd be happy to be part of your support group.
Posted by SeaShell on April 28, 2003, at 9:13:03
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers » SeaShell, posted by Jaye on April 28, 2003, at 5:54:13
> I just wanted you to know that I have been down a similar road with my daughter. She is now 22 and much better. it was a wild ride through the teen years with her. The teen hormones seem to really magnify the problems. If you ever what to email back and forth, I'd be happy to be part of your support group.
Thanks Jaye,
It's nice to hear. I sometimes feel my only hope is she'll get better as she gets older. It all started with her very young but peaked between 10 - 12. I'd be happy to hear from you and also have someone to ask for advice from when needed. Thanks again, Shelley
Posted by Barbara Cat on April 28, 2003, at 13:24:44
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by SeaShell on April 27, 2003, at 19:03:23
Hi Shelly,
I'm jumping in here. Has your daughter ever tried an anti-bipolar med? I can relate to her since my symptoms started early and presented as a very difficult adolescent and teen. My dx is finally bipolar-II instead of major depression for which I'd always been unsuccessfully treated. Lithium, along with a tricyclic has saved my life after having been on every SSRI out there.The reason to consider meds is that in any mood disorder there is not only the discomfort and physical stress to deal with, but there is a maladaptive learning process that takes place. Almost as if the circuitry of the brain is being hardwired and sensitized to disordered thinking. Whatever reasons stress is created, whether through our thinking or through life events, the body reacts by producing cortisol. Too much cortisol has shown to be damaging to neuroreceptors. Over time and too much mental stress, the amygdala, the brains alarm center, becomes overly responsive and 'learns' to maintain a constant state of anxiety, learning to kindle at less and less stimulus until the voice of the reasoning rational cortex gets drowned out. The sooner you quench that kindling and learned helplessness effect the better. She may decide to try it on her own later in life, but if she's been on successful med therapy for a few crucial years, she'll have had a stable structure as a reference point. But for now her brain is still growing and needs to be protected from chemicals that are much more destructive than the chemicals one finds in mood meds.
If she is bipolar then chances are she has a progressive condition that, if left untreated, will only progress and become less responsive to treatment. I wish my parents had looked beyond the rebellious wild child and seen that I desperately needed help. To think that I could have spent those thirty years learning how to be successful and well adjusted rather than becoming an expert at trauma, disorganization and thwarted talent. I could have realized early that my dark moods weren't the result of some warped twisted furtive thing that was all my fault.
Definitely high dose fish oil (omega 3) will help her overall brain health.
Posted by ELENI4 on June 23, 2003, at 15:42:48
In reply to Re: rapid cycling and mind noise, posted by izle on November 14, 2002, at 22:38:38
> I experience exactly what you experience, both the very rapid cycling (minutes and hours) as well as the noisy brain. My brain isn't only noisy, it's also very busy. I just can't stop thinking. And the noise is just as you describe it (busy train station). I can't remember a time when I wasn't like this. I have been to many mental health professionals who have never picked up on any of it. I've told them about the busy brain but they don't seem to know what it is. Through research on the web I found cyclothymia. I went to another pshychiatrist recently and mentioned the cyclothymia. I told her how quickly the cycles can change and she said this could still be cyclothymia. I don't know what the noisy, busy brain is about but I hope to someday find a mental health professional who does. FYI: I also have Temporal Lobe Epilepsy (TLE) which is a brain wave disorder. I'm not sure how this fits in. Best of Luck.
I have the same thing, and like you no one truly understands what I'm talking about when I try to explain it further. They either ask, "You hear voices?" or say, "so you mind is racing?" My answer is always, "No, I do not hear voices, though I do tend to hear music, often with lyrics. My mind does race, but it's not just that. It's almost like an inner dialogue. It's really tough to explain. Has anyone been able to rid themselves of this with meds, and if so, what meds? I'd absolutely LOVE to know. I took Lithium briefly to stabilize my moods, but developed "metal mouth" and decided the metallic taste was too bothersome to continue. I guess that's another question. If someone out there has taken Lithium and also developed metal mouth, does it go away? I was only on a very low dose of 300mg and the taste came on after only three to five days.
Posted by jaye on June 23, 2003, at 16:43:02
In reply to Re: rapid cycling and mind noise, posted by ELENI4 on June 23, 2003, at 15:42:48
I try to think of mind noise the way I think about my tintinitus (sp?), that is, the constant ringing in my ears.
When I'm busy with a project or with people or reading or listening to good music (focused) I don't notice it as much. Somehow it just doesn't drive me crazy any more.
Of course, sometimes I answer "THAT makes sense" or "SHUT UP!" or "That's BS". I've had a year of zen style therapy and learned to use meditation instead of medication, so maybe that's where my new found tolerance has come from.
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