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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Jennifer N. on July 22, 2003, at 8:49:46
In reply to Re: Gosford Park, Li and creativity » Jennifer N., posted by Barbara Cat on July 18, 2003, at 12:37:58
Barbara & Fluffy,
That is wonderful advice! I'm trying to find a way to harness my energy and take control of it in a positive way. I'm going to try the excerise thing...I want to lose a little weight, and I've been wanting to do it anyway. My pdoc upped my Lamictal to 150mg/day, and I'm starting to see a decrease in my mania. She also put me on the Seroquel full-time and upped that to 50mg/day. I feel so tired in the morning, but I'll get over it...one day at a time, right?
I let my husband read my poem the other night, and he truly loved it! I was so shy to let ANYONE read it, especially him! (He's a really good poet!) He said that he was prepared for it to suck and was going to tell me that it was pretty good anyway, but he said he was "amazed" and thought that I could really make a living writing song lyrics (what I really want to do!) What a ego boost that was! Just what I needed to get my ass in gear!
I've also started going back to church, but on my own terms. I go alone, during my lunch to the noon mass, and never feel pressured to go. I'm not ready for Sunday mass, nor will I be for quite some time. But this, I feel, is a great way for me to also harness my energy in a positive way.
I actually had bad news last week, and I was able to deal with it. It was a bit difficult, but I did it without major depression, rage, etc. My doc told me that I have to have surgery on August 7th. WISH ME LUCK EVERYONE!!!!
Thanks again for the advice Barbara & Fluffy!
Posted by jrw on July 22, 2003, at 10:40:30
In reply to Re: Barbara Cat, I need your opinion » tentdweller, posted by Barbara Cat on July 18, 2003, at 1:50:13
BarbaraCat,
That was great...thanks for taking the time to share that with us. A couple of questions came to mind...what dosage of Omega 3 have you found effective? Also, you mentioned you'd left the corporate world, and that you'd since been financially validated for the move. I never liked that world, either, and left, also - though not "under my own power". What did you switch to? It's always so encouraging to hear of the successful efforts of others who struggle with biochemistry...gives one hope.
Thanks,
John
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 22, 2003, at 13:49:39
In reply to Re: Creativity - Barbara Fluffy, posted by Jennifer N. on July 22, 2003, at 8:49:46
Hi Jennifer,
I'm on my way out the door but wanted to get back to you for a short note before I forget. Would you be willing to share your poem with us? We all need some validation that our 'mood disorder' can be a blessing! Later, Barbara
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 22, 2003, at 22:24:30
In reply to Re: Barbara Cat, I need your opinion » Barbara Cat, posted by jrw on July 22, 2003, at 10:40:30
Hi John,
I take 1-2 tablespoons of Dr. Sears pharmaceutical grade fish oil a day. It's very expensive and Carlson's Lemon Cod Liver Oil is just as good and 1/10th the cost. Liquid is necessary at those doses so be sure to get the lemon flavored. Another thing that's been helping is L-tyrosine, 500mg once or twice a day. It's a precursor to norepinephrine and I feel it's helping alot with mood lifting, but not being speedy. Vitamin B6 helps to catalyze the conversion so it's good to take it with.I haven't switched to anything else from my corporate daze, not yet. If I'd just stayed in a nice little company doing programming which I enjoyed I'd still be doing it, but I Peter Principled into project management working 50-60 hrs a week for nasty companies whose products I didn't give a rip about. Project Mgmt is probably the worst job I could imagine for myself (I originally thought I was going to be a musician or psychotherapist). I never had the interest, focus or anal-ness to 'succeed' and the pace kept getting worse. Being bipolar does not make for consistency, nit-picky Gantt charts or management presentations. I'd been able to control my mixed states bipolar depressions fairly well, but when I developed severe fibromyalgia and thought I could still push though, my body said 'Nope!'. I started crying in meetings, not meeting deadlines (deadlines, there's a word), and had to stop before being 'let go' (hell, it's being fired). I applied for disability and after 2 years of financial terror, and my husband also being out of work the whole time, it looks like my case was approved. I'm not certain yet but my attorney is. So that will be a relief and will let me start focusing on something different, healthier and more fulfilling.
My plan is to go back to school this Fall in Nutritional Therapy which is something I'm interested in and want to do for myself. At 52 it's pretty scary but I've learned the hard way that I can't do what I just can't do. There has been another gift as well, but of great sorrow to me. My mother was hit by a car while out walking last December and died 5 days later. The loss of her is not worth the estate she left, but even so, her generosity and love continues on and I know that's how she wants me to see her gift to me.
So strange and heartbreaking is this life. Even when we know that there's really only our inner truth and the great intangibles, things always seems to get brought down to money and security - and in this life there IS NO security. It can all evaporate in a minute. If it weren't for these blessings given to me when I didn't trust in any blessings, I don't know where I'd be. It was getting too close to the terror we all seem to have - being a very sick person with no home, no money, no hope. But I'm slowly coming to hope that there is a benevolence in this universe. I just wish it didn't have to take money to calm me down enough to see it.
Tell me about your corporate experience and how you've managed since getting out. I talk to my friends still in that world and, whew, poor people. I'm glad I'm out. - Barbara
> That was great...thanks for taking the time to share that with us. A couple of questions came to mind...what dosage of Omega 3 have you found effective? Also, you mentioned you'd left the corporate world, and that you'd since been financially validated for the move. I never liked that world, either, and left, also - though not "under my own power". What did you switch to? It's always so encouraging to hear of the successful efforts of others who struggle with biochemistry...gives one hope.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
Posted by fluffy on July 23, 2003, at 12:48:26
In reply to Re: Barbara Cat, I need your opinion » jrw, posted by Barbara Cat on July 22, 2003, at 22:24:30
Wow Barbara--
Sounds like you've had a difficult run lately. If you can manage to be optomistic, then HELL--I sure can! Sometimes I get really self absorbed. I feel like a total whiner--WAhh-my meds aren't working, etc. But even if they aren't, my job is one that allows me to be unstable at times. I work in a specialty bookstore, and my co-worker is really laid back and understanding. I'm really sorry about your work/financial situation. But it sounds like the nutritionist thing would be really great. My boyfriend's mother is Bipolar, and she's done really well managing her own business--taking at the pace she can. She's a massage therapist. There's room for all temperments in this world. Leave the corporate slavery to those other so-called stable work horses!
I can relate to your crying at work. Man--the last episode I had, I cried until a customer came in. I'd suck it in, and then start crying when they left. I couldn't say anything to anyone without crying my eyes out. Pretty embarassing.
Thanks for your story Barb-cat!
Jennifer--poetry corner!! (snapping in circles)
Don't be shy!Katy
Posted by Dali on July 23, 2003, at 13:34:46
In reply to Re: Mild Bipolar - mood stabilisers » BarbaraCat, posted by polarbear206 on April 16, 2002, at 9:19:44
i just started taking lamictal today
i've suffered from bipolar (also ADD) since i can remember (i'm 21) i would ask for anybody else with info. on bipolar and lamictal for advice.-- i've taken everything except for lithium. eg. depakote, topamax, paxil, wellbutrin, neurontin etc etc) i really struggle with taking my meds and feeling like they hinder my creativity/ intellect/ spirit everything- there is also an issue with the ADD i have to take the stimulants to be productive (focalin right now) so i take them in conjunction ]- i've been through three colleges in 3 years and one looney bin-- used every illicit drug [coke, weed, malli, various recreational Rx's (xanax, vaium, codiene) and alcohol has been a constant friend] my moods are uncontrollable-- hour to hour/ day to day/ week to week-- i'm now starting to get scared about my life and its lack of direction... so i'm starting to take getting my life in order a bit more seriously (like i've never said that before)--- i'm a bit manic right now-- i've forgotten the point of my "psycho-babble"-- guess i'm just asking for support from somebody telling me how much better a controlled (read medicated) life is.... telling me that you're still smarter than all your friends and just as creative... with a life that is not collapsing around you, to boot.
also when hypomanic do you do stuff you don't remember, (such as ordering concert tickets, and forgetting that you did until they show up in the mail 4 days before the concert, you ordered the ticks a month and a half ago,) i do this a lot. my pdoc says this isn't a frequent report... ??
OH! almost forgot-- i totally relate to the pms coment of lady above-- i was so glad to read that.... i go completely nuts every month around my period--- whether that means becoming totally depressed and not leaving my couch or going out on the town all night/week longthanx for reading and responding
loves
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 23, 2003, at 16:33:32
In reply to Re: Mild Bipolar - moodstabl-- lamictal, posted by Dali on July 23, 2003, at 13:34:46
Hi Dali. Welcome. All of us Bipolars struggle with balancing the bliss of hypomanic creativity against the frazzled disorganization, not the mention the paralysis of depression. If you haven't read the beginning of this thread then take a look at it. It's mainly been about this whole subject (see the 'Gosford Park' series). Most of us who have been there agree that taking the right meds haven't hurt our creativity at all. We have focus and energy to finish our projects and don't get lost in the distractions. The trick is to ride the edge a little, that is, don't overmedicate or you will feel numb.
I've had a very wild ride with my mixed states bipolar condition and was on SSRI's for years thinking it was major depression that wasn't resolving. Only since I've been on lithium and lamictal have I had any relief. I'm finally putting some creative dreams into reality instead of starting off like a rocket and then fizzling. I feel hope instead of despair for the future, even if we are governed by idiots. I still have wonderfully rapturous cosmic visions and insights. They may not be quite as psychedelic as they used to be but I least now I can remember them. I don't do nearly as many foolish and dangerous things but can pick my deliriums more wisely. Lithium has been a lifesaver for me, even though I'm well below the therapeutic window. Lamictal is the PERFECT partner for lithium and they seem to increase each other's effect. I personally could not do lamictal alone and need lithium for the calm center it provides.
Yes, forgetting stuff and feeling like you're in a ping-pong machine is faily common. It's not all the time so I don't think it's ADD but it sure can look like it. I get real frustrated with myself when I'm in the grip of it. Everything distracts me and I feel like a complete airhead which I'm not. I could be on my way to the bathroom to stock the t.p. and get sidetracked a dozen times, eventually remembering where I was headed but now the toilet paper has disappeared. I usually find it under the sink or in the freezer or, or... I also get kinda spastic, dropping things, setting things on top of stuff so that everything falls and makes more of a mess. I can't remember what others have told me like dates, facts, important info although I recall having a lively discussion at the time. I have to remember to BREATHE slowly during these times cause I'm usually holding my breath and that makes for more anxiety. So, welcome to the club and be thankful that God gave us DRUGS. - Barbara
Posted by McPac on July 23, 2003, at 23:29:46
In reply to Re: Mild Bipolar - moodstabl-- lamictal » Dali, posted by Barbara Cat on July 23, 2003, at 16:33:32
It would seem that the mood stabilizers would be the main type of med to combat dysphoria, correct?
If so, that might explain why I've been having the terrible pissed-off temperment that I've been having for awhile now...I've only been taking 300/mg of lithium a day for quite some time now...might have to bump that up and see if that feeling diminishes. Thanks for any responses!
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 24, 2003, at 1:32:38
In reply to What's the best type of drug for dysphoria?, posted by McPac on July 23, 2003, at 23:29:46
Yeah, try it, doubt if you're getting much of anything on 300mg. Going from 300 to 600mg worked for me. I could probably go even higher than 600 but I'm trying to skirt around the rim of hypomania so I don't get blah. You might try some righteous blow-off-steam exercise too. No amount of meds are going to move stuck energy.
> It would seem that the mood stabilizers would be the main type of med to combat dysphoria, correct?
> If so, that might explain why I've been having the terrible pissed-off temperment that I've been having for awhile now...I've only been taking 300/mg of lithium a day for quite some time now...might have to bump that up and see if that feeling diminishes. Thanks for any responses!
Posted by Jennifer N. on July 24, 2003, at 11:01:59
In reply to Re: Mild Bipolar - moodstabl-- lamictal, posted by Dali on July 23, 2003, at 13:34:46
Dali,
I was also recently put on Lamictal. I've been on it for about 5 weeks, and I have seen a great improvement in my depression. My mania has been worse, but that will happen until you can get to the right level. How much are you on right now? My doc said that this can happen when you're on 50-100mg/day. To curb this and to help with my sleeping, she has put me on 50mg/day of Seroquel. This has definately helped with my mania. I just increased my dosage today from 100mg/day to 150mg/day. I've heard a lot of people have had success from taking Lamictal and Lithium at the same time. I can't take Lithium for health reasons. This might be something to ask you're doc.
As for you're drinking, drugs, etc, this is definately something that you don't want to be doing while you're on these meds. It can cause side effects, meds not to work, and most inportantly, damage your kidneys, liver, etc. Maybe a rehab might be something that you could benefit from, and the support that you could receive there would probably help you a lot. Of course, those of us who visit this web-site could also help, but sometimes we just need to able to call someone, or simply go out for coffee.
Find things that inspire you. Find a hobbie or activity that might help you channel some of the energy from your mania into something positive, productive and good for you. Exercise is always a great thing for mania, and just plain feeling good.
If you have anymore questions, or just want to talk, feel free to post another message. I hope that I've helped!
-Jennifer
> i just started taking lamictal today
> i've suffered from bipolar (also ADD) since i can remember (i'm 21) i would ask for anybody else with info. on bipolar and lamictal for advice.-- i've taken everything except for lithium. eg. depakote, topamax, paxil, wellbutrin, neurontin etc etc) i really struggle with taking my meds and feeling like they hinder my creativity/ intellect/ spirit everything- there is also an issue with the ADD i have to take the stimulants to be productive (focalin right now) so i take them in conjunction ]- i've been through three colleges in 3 years and one looney bin-- used every illicit drug [coke, weed, malli, various recreational Rx's (xanax, vaium, codiene) and alcohol has been a constant friend] my moods are uncontrollable-- hour to hour/ day to day/ week to week-- i'm now starting to get scared about my life and its lack of direction... so i'm starting to take getting my life in order a bit more seriously (like i've never said that before)--- i'm a bit manic right now-- i've forgotten the point of my "psycho-babble"-- guess i'm just asking for support from somebody telling me how much better a controlled (read medicated) life is.... telling me that you're still smarter than all your friends and just as creative... with a life that is not collapsing around you, to boot.
> also when hypomanic do you do stuff you don't remember, (such as ordering concert tickets, and forgetting that you did until they show up in the mail 4 days before the concert, you ordered the ticks a month and a half ago,) i do this a lot. my pdoc says this isn't a frequent report... ??
> OH! almost forgot-- i totally relate to the pms coment of lady above-- i was so glad to read that.... i go completely nuts every month around my period--- whether that means becoming totally depressed and not leaving my couch or going out on the town all night/week long
>
> thanx for reading and responding
> loves
Posted by mbluett on July 24, 2003, at 11:36:50
In reply to Re: Mild Bipolar - moodstabl-- lamictal, posted by Dali on July 23, 2003, at 13:34:46
Hi there,
I just wanted to give you some positive thoughts on your situation. I am a 28 year old male with BP II. I have also used and abused just about every substance on this planet. I have finally settled with Lamictal as my No.1 pharm. I also take Lexapro for the depression. I used to use Effexor, but the benefits outweighed the side effects. Lamictal keeps me stable and has a very positive effect on me cognitively. I can now focus on tasks and my memory has improved. I have also had a very unsettled life until 2 years ago when I found the right medical help and medication. I fully understand your concern about the 'self' part that you mention (creativity/intellect/spirituality). It seems a contradiction in terms of personal evolution that we should need medication to progress or to live a 'normal' life. I have discontinued and restarted medications many times because of this internal turmoil. I have finally come to realise that life changing decisions and personal progress are best made from a stable mind. If medication provides that stability, so be it! I would encourage you continue with the Lamictal. It is a very good mood stabiliser and anti-depressant. I believe that once it starts working for you, you will be able to drop the Focalin. Once last thing. Stability came as a shock to me, as if I still craved the highs of mania! I hope this helps.
Love and peace.
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 24, 2003, at 11:52:14
In reply to Re: Mild Bipolar - moodstabl-- lamictal, posted by mbluett on July 24, 2003, at 11:36:50
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 24, 2003, at 12:20:37
In reply to Re: Barbara Cat, I need your opinion, posted by fluffy on July 23, 2003, at 12:48:26
>> Sounds like you've had a difficult run lately.
If only it were just 'lately' but alas, that's been Life for this kid from the get-go. Weird karma. When I think of my genetic and personal history, you could say I come by my mood disorder honestly. I've come to look at it like this: perhaps it's a good thing to have the hard part in the beginning, like going for a hike or bike ride where the trip is mainly uphill. Then you've got the downhill part to look forward to when you're really ready for it. At least I'm working on making this philosophy a fact. I guess it's more like peaks and valleys the whole way but hopefully we get stronger and more familiar with the terrain.
Maybe lots of other folks don't have difficult lives, but they just didn't take the same trail I did. Besides, I can't think of 1 person I know who isn't at least a little screwed up.
Posted by katia on July 24, 2003, at 15:10:58
In reply to Re: Mild Bipolar - moodstabl-- lamictal, posted by Dali on July 23, 2003, at 13:34:46
> i just started taking lamictal today
> i've suffered from bipolar (also ADD) since i can remember (i'm 21) i would ask for anybody else with info. on bipolar and lamictal for advice.-- i've taken everything except for lithium. eg. depakote, topamax, paxil, wellbutrin, neurontin etc etc) i really struggle with taking my meds and feeling like they hinder my creativity/ intellect/ spirit everything- there is also an issue with the ADD i have to take the stimulants to be productive (focalin right now) so i take them in conjunction ]- i've been through three colleges in 3 years and one looney bin-- used every illicit drug [coke, weed, malli, various recreational Rx's (xanax, vaium, codiene) and alcohol has been a constant friend] my moods are uncontrollable-- hour to hour/ day to day/ week to week-- i'm now starting to get scared about my life and its lack of direction... so i'm starting to take getting my life in order a bit more seriously (like i've never said that before)--- i'm a bit manic right now-- i've forgotten the point of my "psycho-babble"-- guess i'm just asking for support from somebody telling me how much better a controlled (read medicated) life is.... telling me that you're still smarter than all your friends and just as creative... with a life that is not collapsing around you, to boot.
> also when hypomanic do you do stuff you don't remember, (such as ordering concert tickets, and forgetting that you did until they show up in the mail 4 days before the concert, you ordered the ticks a month and a half ago,) i do this a lot. my pdoc says this isn't a frequent report... ??
> OH! almost forgot-- i totally relate to the pms coment of lady above-- i was so glad to read that.... i go completely nuts every month around my period--- whether that means becoming totally depressed and not leaving my couch or going out on the town all night/week long
>
> thanx for reading and responding
> lovesHi,
What was your experience on the Depakote? I"m so worried that I'll become more depressed on it. As I'm normally in either a mixed state or a depressed state. I'm worried that Depakote will take away only the mania and make me worse depressed wise. I am seeing a well known and respected pdoc, so I'm just trusting his judgment and I am going to begin the med today. Does EVERYONE who takes it gain weight and lose their hair? I'm hoping not!
Any comments from anyone would be great.
Katia
Posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 11:39:27
In reply to Re: Mild Bipolar - moodstabl-- lamictal, posted by Dali on July 23, 2003, at 13:34:46
Hi Dali--
You are asking the big questions. I think all of us had them when first being diagnosed bipolar. It's a really life altering thing. Suddenly you're being told that you are not "normal". I wondered what "normal" could be. And I wondered if I would even want that. Could I be normal and still be me? Would being stable swipe my creativity? At times, I still wonder these things. But I've been feeling normal lately, and I can honestly say it's so much better than feeling panic stricken, fearful, suicidal, and unfocused. Looking back, I can see how my disorder caused so many problems for me. I drank too much, engaged in stupid sexual encounters, had trouble completing tasks, said really dumb and overly assertive things to people who had a huge impact on my career as an artist, etc., etc...
I won't sugar coat this for you. You are in the most difficult stage of this junk. Working to find stability and the right meds, wrestling with yourself and self-worth, and wondering-- "just who the hell am I anyway?" It was the most taxing and frustrating thing I've ever had to do. And normal folks aren't really good at understanding this philosophical struggle. I found a lot of support on this board, and I still do. The most important thing that someone instilled in me was that it gets better. And with a lot of hope, some disappointments, some relapses, unsuccessful drug trials, and most importantly patience, it HAS GOTTEN BETTER! (I'm currently feeling loads better on 200mg Lamictal) It's so hard to hang on during this time.
You should read all you can on bipolar disorder...discount the super negative accounts, they'll get you nowhere. A book that helped me a lot was "An Unquiet Mind" by Kay Jamison and "The Bipolar Disorder Survival Guide" (I think that's what it was called). It may feel silly to do this, but maybe find a support group in your area if there is one.
Remember--it gets better. You won't lose the good parts of you. Hang in!
Katy
Posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 12:12:51
In reply to Re: Attn: Dali, posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 11:39:27
Dali:
Here's a link I found to be really helpful:
http://www.psycheducation.com/
Look under the "HOPE" section. And the treatment section...Hell, just read the whole damned thing if you need to!
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 26, 2003, at 13:36:57
In reply to Re: Attn: Dali, posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 11:39:27
Dali, Fluffy is right on in her words of wisdom. As one who was finally treated correctly for BP just 1.5 years ago (actually I insisted due to what I learned on this board that I was bipolar rather than recurrent severe depression. My pdoc agreed to try bp meds instead of SSRIs, which are baaaaad for BPs), I've begun to relax and trust that I'm not going to fall off into the abyss again. No matter what scintillating insights and madcap highs I had, nothing, absolutely nothing, was worth the horrible depressions, the promises made and not kept, the embarassment of appearing like a floozy.
For example, I'd go to office Christmas parties and the like, drink copious amounts of margaritas, wine, whatever, with a Vicodin chaser. This gave my already stratospheric mood rocket fuel energy. I'd then proceed to get up onto the dance floor and do a very sensual belly dance by myself in the middle of 300 or so people. I'd insistently pull the CEO onto the floor to dance with me. We'd then break into a conga dance around the room, me gleefully laughing and spinning ecstatically in the center - at least this is what I remember. Very audacious and at times very magical and fun. Problem was, I got a certain free-spirit rep that I couldn't live up to in normal or down times where I'd sit bawling in my cubicle cause I couln't put two thoughts together. Besides I was mortified at my behavior which would become rather predatory as the night wore on. And me, at 50 years old, married, with a very responsible project managment position!
That fun driven energy would eventually disintegrate into burnt out disorginization and sloppiness. We won't even mention the DUI, the prescription forgery arrest, the lost friendships, the loss of self esteem, the house in shambles, abandoned projects all over the place, for the life of me I couldn't put stuff back that I'd taken out, the thousands of dollars spent on stuff cluttering up the garage and closets, neglecting boring stuff like bills and taxes. Then the inevitable depression where all that wild energy now fueled nightmarish anguish and agitated depressions. I couldn't eat a sandwich without seeing the animals led to slaughter or hearing the screams of the vegetables being pulled up. No way to live and nothing I could do about it. Lithium/lamictal have changed all that and the good news is that I've gone back to playing piano again, I've started studying dance again, riding my bike very enjoyably. I've had to get practical and realize I'm probably not going to win the Nobel prize at the same time as doing everything from quilting to sky-diving to glass blowing to... I'm sure you understand.
The good news is that now that my life has reached equilibrium my rep is slowly changing from wild and unreliable to accountable and calm, but still unique and talented. The best news is that I still have periods of mystical transport, still hear heavenly choirs, still have very real inspirations, although, as I said, now I can remember and use them instead of them being pretty mind candy that exhausted me. Dali, at least give meds a try and keep trying until they click. You can always go back to the mayhem. - Barbara
Posted by katia on July 26, 2003, at 14:09:32
In reply to Re: Attn: Dali, posted by Barbara Cat on July 26, 2003, at 13:36:57
Barbara, Fluffy, and Katy,
Have anyone of you had any experiences with Depakote only for BP Mixed/NOS/II (my dx falling somewhere around here)? My depressions are bad and I am currently off everything and am on the mild low side. I'm waiting for prescription to come in the mail from Canada. My pdoc wants to only start me on this for the time being. Does anyone know if this is enough for the depressed side - which seems to be much more prevelant for me. I'm definitely at the running out of hope - what am I doing taking these meds that aren't working - phase.
Barb - I've read a lot of your posts and your history sounds a lot like mine except I'm 33 and don't have a successful career (none at all infact) am single. But I've been the one on the dance floor pulling the CEO out with me too. I cringed when I read that b/c it's rings too true for me. I know that feeling (especially when you don't know what's going on with you, i.e. bipolar) about the confusion of going from the life of the party to the recluse, who can't handle much social interaction at all. Except my swings seem to happen within days of each other and the cycle goes. exhausting to try and maintain a rep, when it's not you and it's a small part about you at this moment!I, too, more or less dxed myself after reading posts on this board. After a year of tormenting trials on ADs that didn't work, I'm a bit disheartened whether anything will work.
Any input would be appreciated re: depakote solely for BP NOS and any experiences on it?
thanks everyone.
Katia
Posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 14:47:34
In reply to Re: Attn: Dali, posted by katia on July 26, 2003, at 14:09:32
Dear Katia,
I have no experience with Depakote. It's never been a med that my doc wanted to try on me. I think it's because it is helpful with mania, but not depression (that I know of). I don't get full blown mania, just major depression and hypomania. It has a reputation for causing weight gain. However, as far as I know, it helps relieve mixed states and rapid cycling. Sounds like you've got some of that going on.
But if you ask me, Lamictal would be the drug of choice. It's not a miracle drug--it may not work on everyone. But for me it's been a life saver. Have you tried any other mood stabilizers? Lamictal is also reputed to quell mixed states and rapid cycling. On top of that, it has an antidepressant effect. Other people prefer Tegretol, Depakote of Lithium alone or with the addition of an antidepressant. But given your record with them, I wouldn't reach for antidepressants until you give a mood stabilizer a good run.
Have you had a good, long talk about this with a psychiatrist that you trust? I'm certainly not a professional, but I can tell you my experience and share from the research I've read.
AD's put me in a terrible mixed state and made me feel worse. I also didn't know what the hell was wrong until it became full blown. I searched and searched, and figured it out. (i'm bipolar II or cyclothymic w/ major depression).
Tell me what meds you've tried before. Any lithium in there? Any other anti-epilepsy stuff?
Take lots of care,
Katy
Posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 15:06:27
In reply to Re: Attn: Dali, posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 14:47:34
Hi Barbara Cat--
I can so relate to the dancing thing--dancing on the floor (of course in a really sexy way) with no-one else. I can't count how many times I did that in my most manic state. I'm talking Christina Agulera booty and hip thrusting action, with a throng of hooting men egging me on. (usually this was after about 5-6 coctails)
The last time I was manic, I built a stair-case for my loft, refinished and chromed a table, weather stripped my doors, and sewed new curtains all in one day.
I'm sure lots of folks on this thread can relate.
Barbara Cat--your stories are always interesting.
Katy
Posted by katia on July 26, 2003, at 15:39:24
In reply to Re: Dancing Queen, posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 15:06:27
> Hi Barbara Cat--
>
> I can so relate to the dancing thing--dancing on the floor (of course in a really sexy way) with no-one else. I can't count how many times I did that in my most manic state. I'm talking Christina Agulera booty and hip thrusting action, with a throng of hooting men egging me on. (usually this was after about 5-6 coctails)
>
> The last time I was manic, I built a stair-case for my loft, refinished and chromed a table, weather stripped my doors, and sewed new curtains all in one day.
>
> I'm sure lots of folks on this thread can relate.
>
> Barbara Cat--your stories are always interesting.
>
> Katy
Barb Cat and Katy,
Yes, it's soooo good to be able to laugh at it and to know I'm not the only dancing queen too, when I've been cringing at memories too embarrassing to talk about.. that wasn't really me?!
Posted by katia on July 26, 2003, at 15:52:26
In reply to Re: Attn: Dali, posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 14:47:34
Dear Katy,
> Dear Katia,
>
> I have no experience with Depakote. It's never been a med that my doc wanted to try on me. I think it's because it is helpful with mania, but not depression (that I know of). I don't get full blown mania, just major depression and hypomania. It has a reputation for causing weight gain. However, as far as I know, it helps relieve mixed states and rapid cycling. Sounds like you've got some of that going on.
>
> But if you ask me, Lamictal would be the drug of choice. It's not a miracle drug--it may not work on everyone. But for me it's been a life saver. Have you tried any other mood stabilizers?No, this will be the first (Depakote).
>Lamictal is also reputed to quell mixed states and rapid cycling. On top of that, it has an antidepressant effect. Other people prefer Tegretol, Depakote of Lithium alone or with the addition of an antidepressant. But given your record with them, I wouldn't reach for antidepressants until you give a mood stabilizer a good run.
I think that's my pdoc reasoning too. He also did not want to start me on Lamictal due to the small possibility of the fatal rash. I had actually suggested Lamictal due to the good response I've heard from on this board.
>
> Have you had a good, long talk about this with a psychiatrist that you trust? I'm certainly not a professional, but I can tell you my experience and share from the research I've read.
>
> AD's put me in a terrible mixed state and made me feel worse. I also didn't know what the hell was wrong until it became full blown. I searched and searched, and figured it out. (i'm bipolar II or cyclothymic w/ major depression).Yep, I know all about those confused mixed states.
> Tell me what meds you've tried before. Any lithium in there? Any other anti-epilepsy stuff?
> > KatyThe ADs I've tried are Celexa and Zoloft (did nada for me) and Effexor and Serzone, both put me in a hypomanic mixed state and not much more. I was on Neurontin for a brief few weeks taken occassionaly for sleep. that was mixed with the Celexa. No lithium. In fact, nothing but what I've described above.
We'll just see. i'll give it a go with the Depakote. I'm going to buy a scale b/c I'm not gaining weight (it's a bit different for women, esp. when you've already got a body image problem) when there is so much more out there. I'm already at my fat limit due to the Zoloft.
warmly,
Katia
Posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 16:33:15
In reply to Depakote » fluffy, posted by katia on July 26, 2003, at 15:52:26
Katia--
Your medication history is almost exactly the same as mine. Add some Paxil and Trazodone, then subtract the Serzone. In fact, you are fairly medication naive compared to some people I've read about. It's still frustrating though!!--esp. if you are depressed. I felt the same way.
The first mood stabilizer i was put on was Tegretol. It wouldn't lift the low grade depression that was lingering. I switched to a new doctor who specializes in mood disorders. Sometimes older and more conservative psychiatrists opt for the "gold standards" (lithium, depakote or tegretol) before anything else.
Now as for the reputed rash. Your doc is being rather skiddish if you ask me. In fact, Depakote can also cause this rash. (same probability) If you are having body image problems, and you gain weight or get depressed again, then Depakote may not be the best bet.
Keep a mood chart if you aren't already. It's kind of a drag, but it illustrated for me if a drug was working or not. When my chart went to a straight line (for a number of normal days instead of jagged ups and downs, I knew the drug was working).
Let us know your progress. Lots of luck!
Katy
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 27, 2003, at 0:04:29
In reply to Re: Attn: Dali, posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 14:47:34
Lithium and Lamictal work well for me. The only other mood stabilizer is neurontin which doesn't seem to do much. I've been intrigued by Depakote because of it's rep as being very calming and mellow and good for anxious states. But the weight thing has kept me away. I've been on every one of the SSRI and SNRI's. They'd work for awhile but then the godawful mixed states black depressions would always break through. So up we'd go with the dosage with no relief. I was also getting twitchy, like little discharges were firing, like those jerks before you fall asleep. If you suspect yourself bipolar, be very cautious with ADs and do not take them alone.
About the dancing queen, wasn't it fun, though? I mean, what chutzpah, what audacity, what energy! Who'd get the stodgy CEO up and dancing otherwise? When it's really on, it's contageous inspired magic. It could be wonderfully sexy. No doubt there were many sitting there wishing they had the moxie. If I could only channel it and say Hah! Thatsa me and too bad if you don't like it! But noooo, I ruin it all by getting all ashamed and whimpery. I'm really working on looking at it like 'Wow, girl, you can be one hot mama!', rather than 'Eyeeeu, you pathetic slutty hag!' Do you ever wonder if Christine Aguillar, Madonna, etc. are permanently manic? Is that how they do it? And have you seen Beyonce recently on the steps of New York city hall? Shaking her booty wearing a teensy little skirt with just a little thong thingie underneath advertising her goods. Of course, they don't have to face the old salt mine employees either but I can't imagine them losing sleep over being an out of control slut.
I'm not saying I admire crude behavior, but a bumper sticker gave me hope: 'No fascinating woman ever got that way by being a good girl'. And by the way, I no longer have a profession. Fibromyalgia put an end to burning myself out doing a job that 'just wasn't me' - whoever that is.
Barbara
Posted by katia on July 27, 2003, at 0:40:56
In reply to Dancing queen and proud of it!, posted by Barbara Cat on July 27, 2003, at 0:04:29
> Lithium and Lamictal work well for me. The only other mood stabilizer is neurontin which doesn't seem to do much. I've been intrigued by Depakote because of it's rep as being very calming and mellow and good for anxious states. But the weight thing has kept me away. I've been on every one of the SSRI and SNRI's. They'd work for awhile but then the godawful mixed states black depressions would always break through. So up we'd go with the dosage with no relief. I was also getting twitchy, like little discharges were firing, like those jerks before you fall asleep. If you suspect yourself bipolar, be very cautious with ADs and do not take them alone.
And by the way, I no longer have a profession. Fibromyalgia put an end to burning myself out doing a job that 'just wasn't me' - whoever that is.
> BarbaraDo you think that the fibromyalgia is connected to or as a result of your BP state (mainly the depressed side) and/or the medications?
as far as depakote, I do need some calming agent, but not so much that I get into a lethargic inertia low grade depression. I'm worried about that aspect. Like I don't want just the "manic" side taken away. But I need the depression addressed too. Hopefully depakote will do this.??? I"m just at my end and exhausted and can't go through another year of trying different meds to no avail.....I need to get it right soon. No more steam left....
katia
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