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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by BarbaraCat on November 14, 2003, at 1:40:06
In reply to Re: Lamictal insomnia, posted by katia on November 10, 2003, at 15:28:58
Hi Katia,
> you mentioned that if you take sleeping pills, then you don't get the REM sleep, right? What if you take something like Seroquel or Trazadone (an antipsychotic or antidepressant), do you or anyone else know if this allows for a healthy night's sleep?**I've never taken Seroquel but have been interested in it. I guess the reasons I haven't pursued it is hearing it can pack on the pounds. I'm just getting back to a good weight after years and phobic about anything pork-o-genic. Also, I remember reading that it caused grogginess in the morning and sometimes for a few hours afterwards and that's why I stopped Trazodone. It helped me fall asleep great but it was hard to wake up.
Ambien has been the best sleep med for me. It doesn't always work if I'm really wound up (I take 3 Neurontin during those times) and eventually loses its punch. I cut back and lose sleep for a few nights but then it perks up again. Restoril has helped also. Ambien seems to have the best track record for reaching Stage IV sleep, at least better than the other ones. I also really appreciate the fact that it doesn't affect waking up at all. I don't even know I've taken it the next morning and that's the only sleeper I can say that about. The only drawback is that it's expensive and many healthplans balk at covering it.
> Just curious, because I'd like to get some tranquilizers for sleep.
**Just so you know, tranqs can cause depression. So can Ambien and if you stop you're gonna get bad rebound insomnia for a few nights. But criminy, a girl's gotta get her beauty rest. - Barbara
> katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on November 14, 2003, at 1:51:52
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » seamus o'noolan, posted by Flipsactown on November 12, 2003, at 19:12:47
Hi,
> I have been on 200mgs of lamictal going on 7 weeks. I started with 25mgs. I am also on 100mgs prozac and 22.5mgs of remeron.**I was on Remeron when I first started lithium and later lamictal. I had good results with Rem at first and then it did the old poop out routine and I got up to 90mg at one point. Too high and it didn't work. This was before I realized I was bipolar which made sense since none of the ADs worked for long. Well, my lithium/lamictal didn't really start working until I gave up the Rem. I was even down to only 7.5mg at one point thinking it was helping me sleep, but it was just causing the lingering anxiety I associate with ADs. I noticed great improvement once I stopped. Luckily, Remeron is the easiest of the ADs to wean off.
If you're Bipolar, you probably know that ADs can be very bad news. I've heard of some cases where combining a mood stabilizer with a small dose of Prozac or Zoloft helps, but these cases are in the minority. I have heard that WB is the way to go as far as the non-bipolar meds, but like Katia mentioned, WB and Lamictal can be activating. But for some folks, that's a plus. Honestly, the sooner you jettison the Remeron the better. - Barbara
Posted by BarbaraCat on November 14, 2003, at 2:11:22
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » katia, posted by Flipsactown on November 12, 2003, at 20:24:18
> I am unipolar. I have been diagnosed as clinically depressed since 1991 due to chronic low back pain from a traffic accident. Prozac was great for relieving my depression and so was zoloft. I rotated between prozac and zoloft but as you probably have read or experienced they eventually poop out. Lamictal hopefully won't poop out. Does anyone have any experience whether lamictal poops out or not?
>
**In my experience it doesn't poop out the way we associate pooping out with SSRIs. I've been at my 125mg lam and 600mg lithium for 6 months. Prior to that I was at 75mg lam for over a year and it was holding steady until I had some very difficult stresses that destabilized me. BTW, even if you're not bipolar the word is that lithium/lamictal are excellent taken together. I find it a wonderful combo and have not had much success with either alone.With Lam, you eventually reach a steady state but until you get there you know after a few weeks/months or so when you need to go higher in dose because you'll start feeling icky again.
With every increase there's a zippy little lift, verging on perky hypomania but then it subsides and becomes more centered. It's kinda like that first rush of being in love. Very heady and bubbly and fun but it sure can wear you down and leave you longing for some R&R. - Barbara
Posted by Flipsactown on November 14, 2003, at 8:41:26
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » Flipsactown, posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 23:42:56
That is probably true, however, I read in a different website of a person getting the rash at 6 months. It varies from person to person because we all react differently. You probably need a higher dose because generally speaking, the theraputic dose of lamictal starts at 200mgs to 500mgs. Hang in there since you are only at 100mgs. As far as it "sticking", I have read from another forum of people still feeling depression free at 3 years, so hopefully, it will "stick" at least for a couple of years.
Flipsactown
> Hi,
> I'm under the impression that if you don't get the rash within the first two or three weeks, the chances of getting go down. Is that correct? I hope so.
>
> I'm not so sure 100mg is working for me. I've taken a big dive today. Just feel exhausted again and a zombie in agony. I'm sick of this.
> From what I'm seeing, every increase I have, the lift lasts about 4-5 days and then I crash again. Will it ever "stick"????
> I understand why I drank. AT LEAST IT HELPS!
> katia
Posted by Budgie on November 14, 2003, at 13:37:20
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects ?katia, posted by Flipsactown on November 14, 2003, at 8:41:26
Since this seems to be the Lamictal crowd, I'll ask my question up here:
Lamictal or Lithium for (most likely) BP 2?
I'm taking Parnate (an MAOI) currently for the depression.
The "wild" times were previously characterized by anxiety, tension, and irritablity. Now, I'm on Klonopin temporarily, and in my highs I'm worry-free and seem to have hit my creative, energizing stride.
Please, any thoughts? (Especially re the MAOI combo).
Many thanks,
Budgie
Posted by nmk on November 14, 2003, at 14:03:26
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » nmk, posted by BarbaraCat on November 14, 2003, at 1:22:14
>
> How am I doing? Pretty well, thanks. I had a bump last week and was feeling low and slightly ill. But I'm training myself to just be with feelings that are less than desirable by softening instead of defending against them. As long as I'm in a relatively coherent state of mind I can trust that, like the weather, my feelings will eventually change. I guess I'm practicing tolerating lesser discomfort while I can with a mind towards being ready for greater discomfort when it arises, like being mentally buff. I know I can handle anything that life dishes out, but I don't always remember this when I'm not thinking clearly. Then, everything seems like a disaster - like what to wear or if I should buy the can of chopped vs. whole olives. That one had me sobbing in the aisles of my food co-op. Luckily the manager understood depression and was very sweet to me. But I've always managed to muddle through anyway and I figure I probably always will. If I don't, I don't and so I practice not worrying about it when I'm able. - Barbara
>
>
Barbara,I feel that I have such a long way to go to get to those feelings of acceptance that you describe above. Instead, when I am feeling lousy I tend to get stuck, not believing that things will get better, which is where I am at today. Yesterday my pdoc finally gave me a bp II diagnosis so I guess I am still trying to accept the reality of living the rest of my life with this illness and the long-term effects it will have on my relationships with my children and husband. How do you get out of the negative, "I am never going to pull out of this" feeling? It is a frightening place to be for me right now.
When saw the pdoc yesterday I had to bring my husband along because I was afraid to get behind the wheel. I have had severe insomnia since I raised the Lamictal to 300mg and have been taking anything and everthing to get to sleep. The night before the pdoc appt. I took 50 mg of seroquel and had a fitful and restless sleep. Since I was so agitated, depressed, and sleep deprived I didn't want to risk driving.
If you try the seroquel, be prepared to feel VERY groggy in the am. I used to take 25mg per night along with a pinch of remeron which worked well for awhile but then pooped out on me. I have read that many folks here do fine on just half of this dosage or even lower.
I have tried trazadone in the past with little success. I really need the big guns to help me sleep. He switched me to Zyprexa 20mg and 10 mg of Ambien to make sure I would sleep last night. I could barely get out of bed this morning. It is now almost 3 pm and I am still foggy. I am at work trying to keep it together and act "normal" but I can't wait to get out of here. He also lowered the Lamictal to 100mg since the higher doses were causing increased anxiety/insomnia.
Sorry if I am rambling....my mind is in a fog, I feel like a zombie, and I just want to go home. Thanks for listening Barbara.
Your friend,
Nicole
Posted by nmk on November 14, 2003, at 14:10:38
In reply to Lamictal right for me?, posted by Budgie on November 14, 2003, at 13:37:20
> >
> Lamictal or Lithium for (most likely) BP 2?
>
>Budgie,
I cannot speak for Lithium since I have never tried it but I can speak for Lamictal. I noticed when titrating up that it worked well for my depression but after I reached 250mg and eventually 300mg, I became more anxious, irritable, and unable to sleep. My pdoc knocked it down to 100mg so I shall see. I also take 50 mg of zoloft.
I know that Barbara takes both lithium and lamictal so she will be an excellent source of info.
Nicole
Posted by katia on November 14, 2003, at 14:36:02
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » katia, posted by poop'd-out on November 14, 2003, at 1:06:54
Hi Pooped-out
(Dep. and Lam)It was tentatively working. It needed to be increased all the way around to be sure. I was afraid of the PolyCysticOvarian syndrome(PCOS) that is a risk.
It sounds like you may bpii as well. I know I've experienced mostly depression. But in retrospect quite a few hypomanics and tons of mixed states.
katia
Posted by katia on November 14, 2003, at 15:08:37
In reply to Re: Lamictal insomnia » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on November 14, 2003, at 1:40:06
Good to hear you back Barb!
If Ambien is not a tranquilizer, what is it? A sleep aid? then what are sleep aids? How do they differ?
Last summer, when I wasn't sleeping at all - in a complete mixed state for months, I tried Ambien one night (got it from a friend) and I slept a whooping 6 hours (a big feat then). I was then also taking 20mg of Celexa, taking Trazadone for sleep and neurontin. I still wasn't sleeping barely at all (maybe 5 hrs a night)(minus the Ambien). HOWEVER I still have that big bottle of Neuron. The seroquel is making me depressed (or is it not enough drugs in my system?) and grooooogggy in the morning. I have to sleep 9+ hours on it. Last night at 2, I finally took some cuz' I wasn't sleeping. Now it's noon and I'm just having breakfast. I'm sick of being a loser.Sometimes I wonder about all these diagnoses. I mean, yes it really fits me and nothing else has been able to describe my tormenting experiences so well (plus the board here), but do I have a disorder? Maybe I'm just hoping so, so that I won't have to own up to being a *uck up and incapable of surviving in this world. I know that's not true; but it's how I'm feeling esp. in the face of trying to explain how I feel to friends. Who, with all good intentions, want to understand but can't see the difference between what I'm describing and normal mood fluctuations we all have. ZAP! I feel depleted and deflated when I hear that. One, I feel alone, misunderstood, unseen, blah blah blah. But then I feel that if I can't describe it and people don't see it then does it exist???? Or maybe I just need to put a gun to my head and end this miserable incompetent existence????
How did that store manager know about your depression? Did you tell him in confidence, or did he just pick up instantly what it was? You know when you meet people like that, it makes things sooo much easier.
Thank god, I had that appt. with the psychic. If she hadn't told me that until January will be the hardest (chipping old paint of my wall), getting out of the woods, I don't know if I could hang on without that faith. I'm so tired. and I tell you, quitting drinking has made NOTHING better. I can't believe I haven't drunk yet.
I'm at 100mg of Lam. felt better for a few days and am crashing again. Just want a glass of wine to even this mixed state (best I can describe it) out. no, make that a bottle with a couple cigs.
Does it ever get better? I'm sorry but it feels like everyone on this board is continually struggling and cycling and not remaining stable. most of all me. I need to have hope and hear success stories.
Maybe I'll start the Lithium Orotate first. You didn't have good success on that did you? I can get it cheaply I think. I'll look up the prices later. Maybe Neuronto., Lam. and Lithium will be the combo for me? god, I wish someone would just DO something with this blackeyed carcass. I'm sick of taking the lead. I look like hell, like I haven't slept in years, but I have.
I'm not in a good space. Sorry for the rant and thanks for hearing it.
katia
Posted by katia on November 14, 2003, at 15:13:28
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » Flipsactown, posted by BarbaraCat on November 14, 2003, at 2:11:22
>> With every increase there's a zippy little lift, verging on perky hypomania but then it subsides and becomes more centered. It's kinda like that first rush of being in love. Very heady and bubbly and fun but it sure can wear you down and leave you longing for some R&R. - Barbara
>
Hey Barb,
Maybe that's what I'm experiencing. I get high - up - weeeeeeeeee when I take it - and most all days of the first couple days of dose increases. Then by the end of the late afternoon early evening, I'm crashing. And it progressively gets worse the more days that go on at a particular dose, i.e. less high and more fatigue and low/ crash and burn feeling.Is this me just adjusting to the med?
Im' calling my pdoc today.
Posted by katia on November 14, 2003, at 15:19:24
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » BarbaraCat, posted by nmk on November 14, 2003, at 14:03:26
> >
> > How am I doing? Pretty well, thanks. I had a bump last week and was feeling low and slightly ill. But I'm training myself to just be with feelings that are less than desirable by softening instead of defending against them. As long as I'm in a relatively coherent state of mind I can trust that, like the weather, my feelings will eventually change. I guess I'm practicing tolerating lesser discomfort while I can with a mind towards being ready for greater discomfort when it arises, like being mentally buff. I know I can handle anything that life dishes out, but I don't always remember this when I'm not thinking clearly. Then, everything seems like a disaster - like what to wear or if I should buy the can of chopped vs. whole olives. That one had me sobbing in the aisles of my food co-op. Luckily the manager understood depression and was very sweet to me. But I've always managed to muddle through anyway and I figure I probably always will. If I don't, I don't and so I practice not worrying about it when I'm able. - Barbara
> >
> >
>
>
> Barbara,
>
> I feel that I have such a long way to go to get to those feelings of acceptance that you describe above. Instead, when I am feeling lousy I tend to get stuck, not believing that things will get better, which is where I am at today. Yesterday my pdoc finally gave me a bp II diagnosis so I guess I am still trying to accept the reality of living the rest of my life with this illness and the long-term effects it will have on my relationships with my children and husband. How do you get out of the negative, "I am never going to pull out of this" feeling? It is a frightening place to be for me right now.
>
> When saw the pdoc yesterday I had to bring my husband along because I was afraid to get behind the wheel. I have had severe insomnia since I raised the Lamictal to 300mg and have been taking anything and everthing to get to sleep. The night before the pdoc appt. I took 50 mg of seroquel and had a fitful and restless sleep. Since I was so agitated, depressed, and sleep deprived I didn't want to risk driving.
>
> If you try the seroquel, be prepared to feel VERY groggy in the am. I used to take 25mg per night along with a pinch of remeron which worked well for awhile but then pooped out on me. I have read that many folks here do fine on just half of this dosage or even lower.
>
> I have tried trazadone in the past with little success. I really need the big guns to help me sleep. He switched me to Zyprexa 20mg and 10 mg of Ambien to make sure I would sleep last night. I could barely get out of bed this morning. It is now almost 3 pm and I am still foggy. I am at work trying to keep it together and act "normal" but I can't wait to get out of here. He also lowered the Lamictal to 100mg since the higher doses were causing increased anxiety/insomnia.
>
> Sorry if I am rambling....my mind is in a fog, I feel like a zombie, and I just want to go home. Thanks for listening Barbara.**Hi Nicole,
Sounds like you and I are in similar horrible ways. I just hope Barbara is in an ok place as we're both reaching out to her!
I, like you, take Seroquel for sleep. I take such a little amount, but it affects me very much. I take like 6mgs for sleep, but I have the same results as you upon awakening. It does put a fog in the brain even if it allows me to sleep.
The good side of your dx, is now you know. now you can begin searching for the right med combo.
take care,
katia
Posted by Dalilah on November 14, 2003, at 16:16:05
In reply to Lamictal right for me?, posted by Budgie on November 14, 2003, at 13:37:20
Hi Budgie,
I was on Lithium and it helped with keeping my mania down and seemed to just help me in general, think clearer etc. But that was not enough. I started Lamictal for depression and it didn't start to work til 200mg. I, however, am not on an MAOI. Antidepressants never work for me. They make me manic or just do nothing at all, except give me major side effects.
So for me Lithium and Lamictal seems to be the answer (as of now?) And as I said Lithium for mania, Lam for depression, but together they work better than alone. For example I tried Lam alone in the past and it did nothing.
Differnt for everyone....
-Dalilah
> Since this seems to be the Lamictal crowd, I'll ask my question up here:
>
> Lamictal or Lithium for (most likely) BP 2?
>
> I'm taking Parnate (an MAOI) currently for the depression.
>
> The "wild" times were previously characterized by anxiety, tension, and irritablity. Now, I'm on Klonopin temporarily, and in my highs I'm worry-free and seem to have hit my creative, energizing stride.
>
> Please, any thoughts? (Especially re the MAOI combo).
>
> Many thanks,
> Budgie
Posted by fluffy on November 14, 2003, at 16:52:25
In reply to Not doing too well :-( » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on November 14, 2003, at 15:08:37
Katia!!!
> Good to hear you back Barb!
> If Ambien is not a tranquilizer, what is it? A sleep aid? then what are sleep aids? How do they differ?***I'm not sure, but I think Ambien is similar to a benzo. Most "sleep aids" are benzos, besides Benadryl, trazodone, melatonin.
Or maybe I just need to put a gun to my head and end this miserable incompetent existence????
Katia--You know that's not the answer, but I totally know the feeling. You are exhausted with the cycling and endless searching and not feeling well. Most of us know about this. Seriously, if you are thinking about this too much, CALL THE DOCTOR. Or if you feel you might be in danger, then GO TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM. I seriously pondered this a month ago when I was ruminating about suicide badly. I knew I didn't want to do it, but I wanted OUT. And I hesitated, but I called my pdoc, and we scheduled an emergency appt.
> How did that store manager know about your depression? Did you tell him in confidence, or did he just pick up instantly what it was? You know when you meet people like that, it makes things sooo much easier.
***Have you considered joining a support group? I've thought about it, but I have a long time friend who got diagnosed a couple of years before me. And what do you know??? I go diagnosed soon after. She has been indisposable to me b/c of her understanding. These people are hard to find. Truth be told, most people (even good friends) cannot understand what it's like to be bipolar or clinically depressed. Friends try the best they can to understand, and sometimes they feel that boiling what you feel down to what other people feel would make you feel less awkward and isolated. But it can make you feel misunderstood, and these statements can backfire.
> Thank god, I had that appt. with the psychic. If she hadn't told me that until January will be the hardest (chipping old paint of my wall), getting out of the woods, I don't know if I could hang on without that faith. I'm so tired. and I tell you, quitting drinking has made NOTHING better. I can't believe I haven't drunk yet.
> I'm at 100mg of Lam. felt better for a few days and am crashing again. Just want a glass of wine to even this mixed state (best I can describe it) out. no, make that a bottle with a couple cigs.**Could you deal with just a pack of cigarettes? It sounds like a weird suggestion, but I know that for me, my smoking habit has "saved" me, for lack of nothing else to do but pace. When I feel bad, I just smoke, smoke, smoke. I know it's a bad habit, but boy--if you ever go to an AA meeting, those people are CHAIN SMOKERS. It's the lesser of two evils.
Drinking is EVIL when you're depressed---EVIL!!!> Does it ever get better? I'm sorry but it feels like everyone on this board is continually struggling and cycling and not remaining stable. most of all me. I need to have hope and hear success stories.
***Katia--I'm a success story, and not very long ago, I was in a similar boat as yours. It took a very long time, but I've finally found equilibrium. Most of the people on this board are ON this board because they are UNHAPPY with their drug combos and/or diagnosis. They are searching just like you to find answers. Finding the success stories may seem daunting, but they are out there, and they just aren't posting to boards like this per se. Again, I think a support group would be a good place to find these people who understand, and who have fought through this. I'm thinking of finding one soon.
> Maybe I'll start the Lithium Orotate first. You didn't have good success on that did you? I can get it cheaply I think. I'll look up the prices later. Maybe Neuronto., Lam. and Lithium will be the combo for me? god, I wish someone would just DO something with this blackeyed carcass. I'm sick of taking the lead. I look like hell, like I haven't slept in years, but I have.
***I don't REALLY know about this Lithium orotate business, but it seems to be a racket. I almost get angry about the ads, as they seem to be preying on people who are desperate to take ANYTHING besides REAL LITHIUM. It's not really Lithium...there's just a smidge in it. I would really try to give the REAL DEAL lithium a go first before you sink your hard-earned money into alternative treatments. It's tried and true. I don't know your situation exactly, but for most people, Lamictal as a sole agent is only partially effective. Why not try Lithium+Lamictal? Or Trileptal+Lamictal?
> I'm not in a good space. Sorry for the rant and thanks for hearing it.
> katia***Sweetie, we've all been there. Rant anytime. You can count on me to be here, okay? I care about you. Hang on tight...
lots and lots of hugs...
Katy
Posted by katia on November 14, 2003, at 17:12:50
In reply to Re: Not doing too well :-(, posted by fluffy on November 14, 2003, at 16:52:25
Hi Katy,
Thanks for the support. I NEED it right now. I'm not in that exhausted depressed phase, but the crying bouts, irritability, ragey, engerized mixed state. And boy oh boy, the only cure for that is a glass of vino. I'm so tempted b/c no doctor has been able to give me what that has given me. Cigs on their own taste yukky. it's after a glass of wine that the potent synergy of cigs + wine work wonders. However, on the flip side (apart from obvious reasons) it's a dangerous time to drink too. Because paradoxically it helps, but also fuels the energy and I go wild.> Or maybe I just need to put a gun to my head and end this miserable incompetent existence????
>
> Katia--You know that's not the answer, but I totally know the feeling. You are exhausted with the cycling and endless searching and not feeling well. Most of us know about this. Seriously, if you are thinking about this too much, CALL THE DOCTOR. Or if you feel you might be in danger, then GO TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM. I seriously pondered this a month ago when I was ruminating about suicide badly. I knew I didn't want to do it, but I wanted OUT. And I hesitated, but I called my pdoc, and we scheduled an emergency appt.**I don't think I'll do it. I'd drink first you know. You know the feeling when you're so out of control with agitation and irritability and crying jags - it's like a torando in your head that personal actions sometimes are out of your control. I hate those moments most of all and they are the most dangerous. But I've made a pact with myself. Before suicide, I'll try alcohol again. It sounds wierd, but thank god for substances like wine, b/c sometimes it is a saviour.
>> Have you considered joining a support group? I've thought about it, but I have a long time friend who got diagnosed a couple of years before me. And what do you know??? I go diagnosed soon after. She has been indisposable to me b/c of her understanding. These people are hard to find. Truth be told, most people (even good friends) cannot understand what it's like to be bipolar or clinically depressed. Friends try the best they can to understand, and sometimes they feel that boiling what you feel down to what other people feel would make you feel less awkward and isolated. But it can make you feel misunderstood, and these statements can backfire.
I went to a bipolar support group ONE time a month ago and it was a waste of time. Only about two people there were bipolar, the others were either unidepressed or schizoaffective/bipolarish. I felt that I needed to be facilitating it. really. I could harely wait to get out of there. I told my docotor about it (he sponsers it) and he agreed about the dismal aspect of it. He may be starting another one for people along my lines and will tell me about it. there aren't any more around here and I've looked. AA is depressing and not my cup of tea. Last summer when I was far nearer suicide than I am now (I went on for months in a worse state than I'm in now), I "interviewed" to be a part of a depressed support group, was told I was too angry and depressed for the depressed group (for the level where they were), and thank you very much that'll be $30 please to you unemployed person. I cried so much when she rejected me, she had to prolong the session just to get me under control. She referred me to someone else, but at that point, I crawled back into my hole as it took about one month's worth of gathering energy just to get to her office. I have a friend who suffers from depression, maybe I'll start seeing her more...
>>>Katia--I'm a success story, and not very long ago, I was in a similar boat as yours. It took a very long time, but I've finally found equilibrium. Most of the people on this board are ON this board because they are UNHAPPY with their drug combos and/or diagnosis.**I hope your success story continues Katy. What upsets me is that I have a success story that falls away within days.
**RE: Li. orotate, is there really only a minute amt. in it?
> ***I don't REALLY know about this Lithium orotate business, but it seems to be a racket. I almost get angry about the ads, as they seem to be preying on people who are desperate to take ANYTHING besides REAL LITHIUM. It's not really Lithium...there's just a smidge in it. I would really try to give the REAL DEAL lithium a go first before you sink your hard-earned money into alternative treatments. It's tried and true. I don't know your situation exactly, but for most people, Lamictal as a sole agent is only partially effective. Why not try Lithium+Lamictal? Or Trileptal+Lamictal?
> ***Sweetie, we've all been there. Rant anytime. You can count on me to be here, okay? I care about you. Hang on tight...thank you. I so appreciate that.
hugs back to you and as you say
*sniff* and *roar*
katia
Posted by fluffy on November 14, 2003, at 17:42:35
In reply to Re: Not doing too well :-( » fluffy, posted by katia on November 14, 2003, at 17:12:50
Hey Katia--
I remembered you asked this question in an earlier thread...i found it when I did a search to find Li orotate's contents. Mainly, I beleive it is marketed for the neuroprotective benefits, and it is mostly vitamins with *a little bit* of lithium. Here's Barb-cat's reply:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030912/msgs/259679.html
Honestly, I just don't know that much...I'm just skeptical, and it sure seems expensive when REGULAR LITHIUM is, like $10 for a month's supply. Maybe check the alt. treatments board.
glad you're hanging in..mixed is the worst. THE WORST!
yours,
Katy
Posted by ginger C on November 14, 2003, at 17:53:35
In reply to Re: Not doing too well :-(, posted by fluffy on November 14, 2003, at 16:52:25
I know exactly what you folks are feeling when you talk about the cycling and feeling like it is never going to end and bouncing from one drug to the other without finding any relief. I was having those same feelings three years ago when my medicines just completely quit working and i fell into a very severe depression almost to the point of being catatonic. My doctor at that point decided to give me ECT and after that the drugs kicked in and i have never in my life felt as good as i do now. So hang in there there is hope.
Posted by linnette on November 15, 2003, at 1:37:15
In reply to Re: lamictal update and questions » linnette, posted by katia on November 14, 2003, at 0:52:26
hi katia,
my dx is BPII. Originally was diagnosed with unipolar depression, but 10 years later, a new pdoc diagnosed me with BPII after extensive questioning about my prior mood history.I too love coffee, and miss the buzz. I am hoping that eventually I will be able to do full strength caffeine again. This may just be part of the adjustment to the lamictal..
linnette
Posted by Budgie on November 15, 2003, at 12:47:46
In reply to Re: Lamictal right for me?, posted by Dalilah on November 14, 2003, at 16:16:05
Hmmm, that's interesting.
I've been reading that lithium can cause some cognitive *dulling*, which I'm loath to deal with.
So what would you say? 50% of my problems have been depression, 50% anxiety/irritablity. With the Klonopin controlling the anxiety, I've been spending quite a bit of time in a very pleasant, somewhat constant state of hypomania (maybe just legitimately happy and energized??). The main problems are the semi-frequent, quick dips into really bad depression (thinking about suicide, etc.), out of the blue or over trivial stressors.
Thanks for your help, Dalilah,
Budgie
Posted by Dalilah on November 15, 2003, at 14:27:42
In reply to Re: Lamictal right for me? » Dalilah, posted by Budgie on November 15, 2003, at 12:47:46
Hi again Budgie,
Maybe the Lamictal would work cause it really helped the depression for me. And that sounds like what you need help with. It made me more steady in the up (sometimes hypomanic, which I like.)
Also, lithium is really supposed to help with the suicidal thoughts, my doctor says. But I know the Lam is the one that helped the depression. Also, I have not experienced any dulling with Lithium. But of course, everyone's different. I must say that a lot of my friends and sister have responded well to Lithium after Depakote (icky yuck horrible) and others did not do a thing but make them fat and lethargic.
-Dalilah
> Hmmm, that's interesting.
>
> I've been reading that lithium can cause some cognitive *dulling*, which I'm loath to deal with.
>
> So what would you say? 50% of my problems have been depression, 50% anxiety/irritablity. With the Klonopin controlling the anxiety, I've been spending quite a bit of time in a very pleasant, somewhat constant state of hypomania (maybe just legitimately happy and energized??). The main problems are the semi-frequent, quick dips into really bad depression (thinking about suicide, etc.), out of the blue or over trivial stressors.
>
> Thanks for your help, Dalilah,
>
> Budgie
Posted by nmk on November 15, 2003, at 16:56:28
In reply to The steady pillar of Barb? » nmk, posted by katia on November 14, 2003, at 15:19:24
> > >
> > >>
> **Hi Nicole,
> Sounds like you and I are in similar horrible ways. I just hope Barbara is in an ok place as we're both reaching out to her!
> I, like you, take Seroquel for sleep. I take such a little amount, but it affects me very much. I take like 6mgs for sleep, but I have the same results as you upon awakening. It does put a fog in the brain even if it allows me to sleep.
> The good side of your dx, is now you know. now you can begin searching for the right med combo.
> take care,
> katia
Katia,Yes, for me it is good to know since I now feel I have some control over the whole thing. My pdoc switched my night med to 20mg of Zyprexa to insure that I would be knocked out. I slept straight through the night, woke up as foggy as ever and that feeling did not get better as the day progressed. Last night, I took 10 mg instead and although I felt groggy in the morning, it wore off around noon. Hopefully, I will be able to taper even more but for now I will stay put. I guess we have to deal with certain side effects in order to get some precious sleep.
He also decreased my Lamictal to 100mg per day and I do not feel as agitated on the lower dose.
The support on this board is incredible and I always find reassurance in reading the posts of others in similar situations, especially yours and Barbara's.
Stay well and thanks for responding.
Nicole:)
Posted by katia on November 15, 2003, at 17:19:26
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb? » katia, posted by nmk on November 15, 2003, at 16:56:28
Hi Nicole,
ditto on the support. I really appreciate it too. don't know where I'd be without this board.
Did your doc say that you'll titrate up again on Lam. once you "acclimate" to 100mg?
Is 100mg enough for you? What else are you on again?
katia
Posted by nmk on November 17, 2003, at 8:52:52
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb? » nmk, posted by katia on November 15, 2003, at 17:19:26
> Hi Nicole,
> ditto on the support. I really appreciate it too. don't know where I'd be without this board.
> Did your doc say that you'll titrate up again on Lam. once you "acclimate" to 100mg?
> Is 100mg enough for you? What else are you on again?
> katia
Hi Katia,Sorry for he delay in responding but weekends are crazy for me with three kids and boatloads of housework and errands. The only chance I have to breathe is here at work.
Anyway, he wants me to stay put at 100mg of Lamictal per day. I have noticed a HUGE improvement with the lower dose. I am no longer agitated, depressed, and can finally sleep. I am also on 50 mg of zoloft and 10 mg of zyprexa at night for sleep. The improvement of my symptoms may be due to the addition of the zyprexa but then again, I don't know.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that this combo will keep me stabilized for awhile since the past few weeks have been a living nightmare.
Keep in touch,
Nicole:))))
Posted by BarbaraCat on November 17, 2003, at 14:36:56
In reply to Not doing too well :-( » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on November 14, 2003, at 15:08:37
Dear Katia and Friends,
Sorry I haven't posted in a while. We went to DSL and all our internet connections, email and even our telephone ID and ringer have gone to hell in a handbasket (there's that famous handbasket again). I'll be back but right now it's a major task to catch up on all the emails that have finally made it through to us.One thing that I've been thinking, Katia. Since we're both having our ups and downs re not drinking (OK, OK, I did slip up twice since we last talked and swore never again) I'm wondering about that lack of dopamine and maybe our wiring really requires it. Hence the self-medicating. So, the only thing that comes to mind that isn't directly Parkinson's related it Wellbutrin. Have you ever been on it? I was years ago and it made me kind of agitated, but this was pre-BP dx when I was also on 250mg Zoloft and no mood stabilizer. I'm going to talk to my pdoc about it and read up on it. I don't want anything to cause more anxiety and brooding, but these discomforts might be symptoms of unmasked depression. I also don't want to add another med if I can tolerate things without, but on the other hand, I want my life to progress without the stranglehold of anxiety and other unnecessary challenges.
Another med that comes to mind is a stimulant but I've already gone that route with Ritalin and didn't like the feeling or the insomnia one bit. So, anyone out there, tell me what you think about self-medicating with alcohol and Wellbutrin to medicate the thing that alcohol was medicating. Get my drift? Thanks for all your concern about my absense. I promise, I'll keep in touch better. Love, Barbara
Posted by katia on November 17, 2003, at 14:51:58
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb? » katia, posted by nmk on November 17, 2003, at 8:52:52
good news for you Nicole!
I'm not doing so well again. It's the pooping out of Lam. after 5-6 days. And then as you've read, I had a big bout of drinking on friday cuz' I couldn't take being me anymore.
hope it steadys on for you at this dose. 100mg solo Lam. isn't cutting the mustard for me.
take care,
katia
Posted by katia on November 17, 2003, at 15:07:29
In reply to Re: Not doing too well :-( » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on November 17, 2003, at 14:36:56
>
> One thing that I've been thinking, Katia. Since we're both having our ups and downs re not drinking (OK, OK, I did slip up twice since we last talked and swore never again) I'm wondering about that lack of dopamine and maybe our wiring really requires it. Hence the self-medicating. So, the only thing that comes to mind that isn't directly Parkinson's related it Wellbutrin. Have you ever been on it?**Hey Barb,
Good to have you back. I was wondering...
Coincidentally enough, it's been dawning on me that I possibly have a dopamine lack. I asked my pdoc about it and the connection with alcohol - again he didn't really give much of a response, except "you're asking really good questions, I just don't know the answer". And I said "well alcohol is the ONLY thing that's worked for me!". He said, "we're not out of hope yet". - or something like that. Needless to say that night I got smashed to all hell. You'll read about at Substance.
When I was coming off of Serzone, right when I was quite hypo and thinking I was BP, I switched to Wellbutrin - no. take that back. RIGHT before Serzone, coming off of Zoloft, I started WB for two weeks. But I was having terrible terrible w/drawals on Zoloft that I thought it was the WB and stopped it. Then 2 wks. of nothing, I started Serzone. During those two wks. I went hypo and the Serzone sealed it and got worse.
Effexor has the same (maybe just a smudge) of dopamine i think. It's got the norei. and serotonin. I think WB is the big one for dopamine. I too am worried about the stimulating qualities. I'm not sleeping now w/o something just on Lam. I started taking my Neurontin. and seems to work.In regards to the horomone testing, do you know if you have to do it at specific times of the month? Part of my "losing it" has to do with PMS this time of my slip up on Friday. I want to get them tested, but only want to do it once and get an accurate reading. Anyway, if you don't know, don't worry. I'll look it up somewhere.
love,
katia
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