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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by John Andrews on March 24, 2004, at 7:13:04
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last? » caritasrainbow, posted by Angel Girl on March 23, 2004, at 22:46:08
> What do yall mean when yall talk about brain zaps?
> >
> > well, i went from 450 to 375 to 300 to 150 to nothing within about a week and a half and by day 5 of nothing the symptoms were so bad my legs and arms were shaking, my teeth wouldn't stop chattering, so the dr put me back on 75 when he saw me. i took that for 4 days, then skipped a day, symptoms got bad so i took 37.5 for a few days then went off entirely. the first two days were the worst. now it's just over a week and the zings are still there, but not as bad. definately able to function okay now, just wish the zings would stop entirely. sooo... the first time the zings and stuff got worse with each passing day, but this time they seem to be getting better with each passing day. not sure if this helps... but when i went off the first time the days got worse and worse until i went back on and cut back a little more slowly. also now my memory is awful and i do seem to be having some problems making sense of my thoughts? or putting them in order? see, i don't think i even make sense, just feel like i'm babbling...
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> Rain
>
> Personally I think your tapering is way to fast. I used to be on 367.5 and had lots of side effects similiar to what y'all are describing your withdrawal to be like, especially the brain zaps. It was the brain zaps that were the deciding factor for me to start weaning off of Effexor XR altogether. I tapered extremely slowly by 37.5 every two weeks until I was down to 37.5 per day. Both myself and my shrink were concerned on what would happen with eliminating it completely and discussed whether I should cut the pills up into smaller dosages or cold turkey if from that point. We both decided I would cold turkey it and if it got too bad then I would start taking a dosage less than 37.5. I really had no problems throughout my withdrawal from Effexor. I did have the brain zaps for about 3 weeks after I was drug free but I had them from the very beginning of tapering so I was used to them.
>
> I did however experience the hell you are all describing at one of my increases in dosages. I usually increased by only 37.5 each time but one time I felt I needed relief faster so it was increased by 75 instead. I went through the same hell, went to my dr and immediately backed down to the dosage before the increase until things leveled out. At that point it was increased by 37.5
>
> So, I guess what my point is, that I totally understand what y'all are experiencing since going through it firsthand, albeit from an increase, but when I withdrew from it I had relatively no problems. Each one of us has our own experiences and although I am not lessening y'alls experiences, not everybody goes through the horrible withdrawal. However, as I said, I did it EXTREMELY slowly.
>
> Unfortunately though after being off it for awhile, my depression came back and I'm back on it again and currently on a daily dosage of 150.
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> My thoughts and prayers are with y'all who are having withdrawal problems.
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> Angel Girl
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Posted by annesand on March 24, 2004, at 7:49:59
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by John Andrews on March 24, 2004, at 7:13:04
Since I'm having them about every ten minutes right now, I'll take a shot at answering. It's like somebody just rang a loud bell near you, but there's no sound. A momentary painless wave/vibration/"zing" inside your head, sometimes with dizziness and/or nausea.
Posted by John Andrews on March 24, 2004, at 7:58:49
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by annesand on March 24, 2004, at 7:49:59
Did you have these brain zings while taking effexor or just when you stopped taking it?
Posted by roomy on March 24, 2004, at 8:04:11
In reply to Effexor XR Story and my opinion 25 F mother of 1, posted by Sinaminika on March 23, 2004, at 10:57:49
My suggesstion to you is to TELL your doctor about your plan to go off the Effexor and when he lowers your dosage each time, TELL him you need a sample since your insurance wont cover it. They get samples free ALL THE TIME!!!! Get your Rx filled early so if he doesnt have any samples then you can come back in a couple weeks and check then. (and still not run out of your current Rx) If this STILL doesnt work and you cant get the free samples...tell the doctor that you want a full month supply of your current dose only in the 37.5 capsules. That way you will be able to taper off it yourself and have enough. (do you follow all that 'psycho-babble'?)
ya see...if you get a script for a month supply of 75mg only get it in a 37.5 capsules...then you will have a TWO months supply of the 37.5.
I think the first choice is best since the samples will be free and your doctor should know and be involved in what your plans are. There are drugs out there to help with the withdrawl. I JUST recently talked to a friend of mine that went thru the same situation as you and I and she said after trying to quit several times...she finally did it when her doctor put her on THREE days of Prozac. That drug helped with the withdrawl of the effexor and the prozac was unnoticable to quit.
sorry for rambling so much. Good luck.
Posted by annesand on March 24, 2004, at 8:31:50
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by John Andrews on March 24, 2004, at 7:58:49
Only when I taper off/stop. Never while on it.
Posted by caritasrainbow on March 24, 2004, at 11:45:46
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last? » caritasrainbow, posted by Angel Girl on March 23, 2004, at 22:46:08
>
> Personally I think your tapering is way to fast.ah yes! definately won't argue with that. i just get impatient, so i went off more quickly than even my dr preferred. as for getting back on, well should i have to get back on something at some time i know i will look long and hard at my options. i've been told wellbutrin has no side effects, i'm thinking there must be more like that. i know going off pamelor and prozac didn't cause me any problems.
i've been diagnosed bipolar for 14 years, but have a new dr that thinks i'm not? very frustrating. anyway, got off the meds only to discover i'm pregnant, so i'm off all for a bit anyway. not helpful at all because the circumstances of the pregnancy are more than i can bear right now. still waiting to find out why they seem to think i have cancer as well? nothing seems to make sense anymore and i've lost my crutches. (my meds)
rain
Posted by caritasrainbow on March 24, 2004, at 11:47:24
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by John Andrews on March 24, 2004, at 7:13:04
> > What do yall mean when yall talk about brain zaps?
the weird zinging feeling that you get in your head when off the meds for even as short as a few hours. feels almost like a big yawn in your brain or like you are being zapped with electricity.
rain
Posted by John Andrews on March 24, 2004, at 12:17:18
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by caritasrainbow on March 24, 2004, at 11:47:24
This is the first time i have heard of this. I was on effexor(75mg) for 6 months last year and the only side effect i noticed when quitting was that my entire face was numb for a week. Doc just put me back on and gave me 150 mg. at least i will know what it is if i do experience this.
Posted by worm on March 24, 2004, at 12:46:54
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by annesand on March 24, 2004, at 8:31:50
See, I get the zings (so glad someone knows what I'm talking about, I thought I was going crazy-er!) If I skip 2 doses, but the other side effects, which I didn't know were side effects, I get while on the Effexor (nausea, dizziness, extreme muscle weakness, joint pain, and chills)
Lots of fun, huh? I don't get them all at one time, but the muscle aches and weakness, seems to be timed to when I take my Effexor, and the chills a little while later. The dizziness just hits me when I get up too fast or move too fast. Never consistent enough for me to associate with the taking of my meds.
Posted by Angel Girl on March 24, 2004, at 21:48:31
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by John Andrews on March 24, 2004, at 7:58:49
> Did you have these brain zings while taking effexor or just when you stopped taking it?
Hi John!I had the brain zaps while actually taking the Effexor but only at higher dosages and then of course the entire time I was weaning and for about 3 weeks after I was completely off Effexor. I would describe them as the feeling like you have an electrical shock in your head. They're HORRIBLE!!!
I've been back on Effexor for a long time now, currently taking 150mg/daily with no brain zaps.
Hope that helps!
Angel Girl
Posted by Angel Girl on March 24, 2004, at 21:58:43
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by caritasrainbow on March 24, 2004, at 11:45:46
> >
> > Personally I think your tapering is way to fast.
>
> ah yes! definately won't argue with that. i just get impatient, so i went off more quickly than even my dr preferred. as for getting back on, well should i have to get back on something at some time i know i will look long and hard at my options. i've been told wellbutrin has no side effects, i'm thinking there must be more like that. i know going off pamelor and prozac didn't cause me any problems.
> i've been diagnosed bipolar for 14 years, but have a new dr that thinks i'm not? very frustrating. anyway, got off the meds only to discover i'm pregnant, so i'm off all for a bit anyway. not helpful at all because the circumstances of the pregnancy are more than i can bear right now. still waiting to find out why they seem to think i have cancer as well? nothing seems to make sense anymore and i've lost my crutches. (my meds)
> rainRain
I'm so sorry to hear that you may have cancer. I must've missed that in your post before. I'll pray that you don't. Congratulations on your pregnancy. Maybe with being off of all the meds you might find you don't actually need them. That's the thing, when you're on them how do you know what you would actually be like without them. I know I get really sick of the tons of pills I take a day. There are some days I feel like throwing them all in the garbage and that maybe I don't need them after all, that I'm just being told that I do. My diagnosis is bi-polar as well. My personal experience with Effexor is that you can't be too impatient with either weaning or increasing or you're going to pay the piper.
Good luck with going drug free, your cancer test and your pregnancy. How far along are you? When will you find out for sure about the cancer? Please keep us posted.
Angel Girl
Posted by Angel Girl on March 24, 2004, at 22:01:45
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by John Andrews on March 24, 2004, at 12:17:18
> This is the first time i have heard of this. I was on effexor(75mg) for 6 months last year and the only side effect i noticed when quitting was that my entire face was numb for a week. Doc just put me back on and gave me 150 mg. at least i will know what it is if i do experience this.
JohnI'm a little confused. Why would your doctor put you back on Effexor at a higher dosage than you were on before after you came off it just because your face felt numb? Could you please enlighten me.
Thanks.
Angel Girl
Posted by Angel Girl on March 24, 2004, at 22:12:25
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by worm on March 24, 2004, at 12:46:54
> See, I get the zings (so glad someone knows what I'm talking about, I thought I was going crazy-er!) If I skip 2 doses, but the other side effects, which I didn't know were side effects, I get while on the Effexor (nausea, dizziness, extreme muscle weakness, joint pain, and chills)
> Lots of fun, huh? I don't get them all at one time, but the muscle aches and weakness, seems to be timed to when I take my Effexor, and the chills a little while later. The dizziness just hits me when I get up too fast or move too fast. Never consistent enough for me to associate with the taking of my meds.
>
WormI pretty much had every side effect listed, or at least it felt that way to me, the first time I was on Effexor. I too remember having the dizziness when getting up too fast or moving too fast. I had actually forgotten about that one. The ones that were the most prominent for me were insomnia, tremors/twitching and extremely dry mouth.
This is actually my 2nd time on Effexor after weaning off of a very high dosage 367.5 before, 150 now. So far this time, the side effects I have is the extremely dry mouth and tremors/twitching but since I take a miriad of different drugs who really knows which one is causing me the number of side effects I have. :(
Angel Girl
Posted by caritasrainbow on March 25, 2004, at 1:15:56
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last? » John Andrews, posted by Angel Girl on March 24, 2004, at 21:48:31
> > Did you have these brain zings while taking effexor or just when you stopped taking it?
i was taking 450mg a day for about a year and a half and i never had the zaps unless i forgot to take it. they started if i was late even a couple of hours. but they were never as bad as when i got off without tapering slowly. still having them, but not as often and not as awful.
Posted by caritasrainbow on March 25, 2004, at 1:20:34
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last? » caritasrainbow, posted by Angel Girl on March 24, 2004, at 21:58:43
> Good luck with going drug free, your cancer test and your pregnancy. How far along are you? When will you find out for sure about the cancer? Please keep us posted.
Okay, finally saw a doctor who seems to have a clue. NO CANCER!! Huge sigh of relief there. As for being off meds entirely, I've done this before usually with not so great results. But I know I'll manage. The pregnancy... Well that's a whole nother mess I've gotten myself into... ~sigh~
thanks for your concern. I was freaking out for the last 7 days waiting for all the tests to come in and to see a decent dr. My car was totaled in a hit and run Sunday night, so now I'm carless.. I think I may have already mentioned that though. Anyway, the insurance company *is* sending me out a check as soon as they get my car title, so let's hope the postal service is very speedy!
rain (still zinging a wee bit)
Posted by drblonde on March 25, 2004, at 3:50:36
In reply to Re: Going through Effexor Withdrawl now, posted by Raggy on March 23, 2004, at 8:16:18
i did research not too long ago about how Effexor has been known to cause anger, and even rage. It is am SSRI, but they still put bipolar people on it anyways.
Ritalin is still around, and it is still legal speed.
I just dont think that some people realize the side effects of these medications.
Posted by John Andrews on March 25, 2004, at 6:03:14
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by Angel Girl on March 24, 2004, at 22:01:45
I was off for about 6 months and he put me back on because the anxiety came back, not because of the side affects. I was just thinking that the 75 was not enough to cause the brain zaps and now i am on 150 so i may experience them now?
Posted by worm on March 25, 2004, at 12:07:20
In reply to Re: Going through Effexor Withdrawl now, posted by drblonde on March 25, 2004, at 3:50:36
Drblond:
That's why I want to get off, because of the rages. They scare me. I have only had them since I bumped up to 150 - my doctor's idea, not mine. I get a brain zing, and then overpowering anger, and usually over something stupid. They go away just as quick, but I feel like I could hurt someone who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
worm
Posted by Angel Girl on March 25, 2004, at 14:51:16
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by caritasrainbow on March 25, 2004, at 1:20:34
> Okay, finally saw a doctor who seems to have a clue. NO CANCER!! Huge sigh of relief there. As for being off meds entirely, I've done this before usually with not so great results. But I know I'll manage. The pregnancy... Well that's a whole nother mess I've gotten myself into... ~sigh~
> thanks for your concern. I was freaking out for the last 7 days waiting for all the tests to come in and to see a decent dr. My car was totaled in a hit and run Sunday night, so now I'm carless.. I think I may have already mentioned that though. Anyway, the insurance company *is* sending me out a check as soon as they get my car title, so let's hope the postal service is very speedy!
> rain (still zinging a wee bit)
RainCONGRATULATIONS on the negative cancer test. You must be so relieved. :) YIKES!!!! about your car being totalled though. Are you ok? You didn't say when the baby was due.
Angel Girl
Posted by Angel Girl on March 25, 2004, at 14:58:51
In reply to Re: Going through Effexor Withdrawl now, posted by drblonde on March 25, 2004, at 3:50:36
> i did research not too long ago about how Effexor has been known to cause anger, and even rage. It is am SSRI, but they still put bipolar people on it anyways.
> Ritalin is still around, and it is still legal speed.
> I just dont think that some people realize the side effects of these medications.
DrblondeI'm bi-polar and on Effexor XR 187.5mg daily. You're right, those diagnosed with BP shouldn't really be put on any anti-depressant, including Effexor. It can cause manic episodes. That's why I am being closely monitored and I've never had a problem and I've been taking Effexor for 3 years. That's not to say that somebody else won't have a problem. Everybody reacts differently and we all should be closely monitored by our doctors.
I can't offer any opinion about Ritalin because I don't know much about it and I have no experience with it.
Angel Girl
Posted by Angel Girl on March 25, 2004, at 15:01:04
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by John Andrews on March 25, 2004, at 6:03:14
> I was off for about 6 months and he put me back on because the anxiety came back, not because of the side affects. I was just thinking that the 75 was not enough to cause the brain zaps and now i am on 150 so i may experience them now?
JohnNot necessarily. I did but not until my dosage became higher than yours is. As you can see by reading posts from others here, the good majority only experienced brain zaps while weaning off of Effexor.
Angel Girl
Posted by caritasrainbow on March 25, 2004, at 15:02:28
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last? » caritasrainbow, posted by Angel Girl on March 25, 2004, at 14:51:16
> CONGRATULATIONS on the negative cancer test. You must be so relieved. :) YIKES!!!! about your car being totalled though. Are you ok? You didn't say when the baby was due.
car was a hit and run, i wasn't in it. i am not okay, but that's not why.
i'm due late november, just barely pregnant. this will be #4. i thought i was done. also this one does not belong to the same father as my last two. the one i live with... too much to deal with. long long story, won't bore anyone here. my email is still caritasrainbow@yahoo.com if you truly want the horrid details of my stupid behavior. and i only offer because i honestly have no one to turn to, no one to talk to...
and yes, i have told the one i live with i'm pregnant. he knew i was seeing someone else and i didn't have to tell him it's not his. okay, i'll quit now... wish i had some meds.. lol!
Posted by Jeano on March 25, 2004, at 22:54:40
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last? » caritasrainbow, posted by Angel Girl on March 24, 2004, at 21:58:43
Hey you guys...
Ya see what I'm talkin about? After reading about "brain zings" and nightmares, etc. using Effexor XR (even the smallest dose) for depression seems like a crazy thing for me (personally) to do.
Posted by roomy on March 26, 2004, at 7:03:51
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by Jeano on March 25, 2004, at 22:54:40
> Hey you guys...
>
> Ya see what I'm talkin about? After reading about "brain zings" and nightmares, etc. using Effexor XR (even the smallest dose) for depression seems like a crazy thing for me (personally) to do.Hey, dont let us scare you. I was on Effexor (or one of its sidekick friends, serezone,paxil,wellbutrin) for about 6 years. It did help me when I needed it and IF (and only if) you are good about taking it and dont skip a dose, or run out, you may have good luck with it too! Over the 6 years, I had to keep changing meds or increasing them to get any benefit. Only after the increase, did I start to notice any negative side effects. (the lack of sex drive and weight gain) If I would have had any of these or other side effects early on I certainly wouldnt have stayed on it for 6 years! Just beware that if you want to get OFF the drug, its not a pleasant thing but you can do it. And now that you have read up on it, and done your homework and researched it, you can watch for side effects and know the proper way to wean off when and if you should feel the need to. Knowledge of the drug is a good thing. I wish I would have had that. I prolly still would have been on it and then gone off it...but I would have known what to expect and it would have been my choice. Dont let us scare you, if you need it, go for it. Sometimes you can be "talked into" side effects that you normally wouldnt even notice. I, personally wouldnt take it if it were going to be a life long medication because you will need to continually increase the dose to where the side effects will become noticable. But if its just a temporary thing to get you over a hard time its not that bad of a drug. Just be careful getting OFF it when the time comes!!!
-dont worry! Be Happy!
-Roomy
Posted by Caleb96 on March 26, 2004, at 10:27:24
In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by John Andrews on March 24, 2004, at 7:13:04
OK Folks,
I'm going to relate MY experience with going C/T from 300 mg/day of Effexor. KEEP IN MIND THAT EVERTHING I WRITE IS FROM MY PERSONAL ANECTDOTAL EXPERIENCE AND IS NOT A RECOMMENDATION FOR ANY ONE ELSE. DON'T STOP TAKING YOUR MEDS WITHOUT YOUR DOCTOR'S OK (OR AT LEAST INFORM HIM/HER BEFORE YOU DO)!!!
I've been taking 300 mg/day of Effexor for three years. Unfortunately, Effexor has the same sexual side effects as the SSRIs. After taking it for several months, I was literally 'chemically castrated.' The upside of Effexor is its short half-life--if you stop, full sexual function returns in a few days (BTW, I'm 45, so I'm not exactly a kid anymore). I guess everyone knows the downside of stopping Effexor by tapering or cold turkey.
I have had no problems taking Effexor, and it's done wonders for my depression with no side effects other than the sexual issue. The times I've stopped C/T, the only side effect I've experienced is a g*dawful, splitting headache that starts on the second or third day, and lasts a day or two. Standard therapy of NSAIDS (drugs like aspirin, ibuprofen, ketoprofen, and to a lesser extent naproxen, NOT Tylennol[acetominofen]) help take the edge off the pain, but don't 'cure' it like they would a normal headache. After the second day or third day, I generally feel fine and my 'mojo' comes back. By day five I can perform like a 20 year old (no Viagra necessary). Enough of my sex life.
Now, about a year ago, my dentist sent me to a neurologist because my TMJ had gotten much worse and was not responding to a simple acrylic bite guard any longer. The neurologist determined that I had trigeminal neuralgia, a very painful problem that is characterized by sharp pain radiating across the face (in my case into my right eye and upper jaw). He prescribed a drug called gabapentin (Neurontin) 300 mg/3 times a day. That helped a little but I was still having a lot of pain. Last summer he prescribed a stronger drug called carbamazepine (Tegretol). Some of you might recognize that as an anti-epiletic. In fact, there are only two uses for Tegretol--epilepsy and (believe it or not) trigeminal neuralgia.
Tegretol/carbamazepine is an anticonvulsant and specific analgesic for trigeminal neuralgia. From what I've read, it is believe to act on chloride channels in a variety of neurons (I presume it partially depolarizes the neurons by allowing an influx of chloride ions) but the exact mechanism is apparently still unknown. What is known is that carbamazepine has a tonic effect on neurons and thus prevents uncontrolled firing of a variety of neuronal pathways. Think of Tegretol as having a similar effect as the benzodiazepines, only more subtle and widespread throughout the brain.
Having said all that let me get to the point. Recently, I stopped taking Effexor cold turkey (with my psych's permission); at the same time, I was taking Tegretol (300 mg/4 times per day) because my TG neuragia was acting up. I was also taking 1 to 2 mg clonazepam (Klonopin) per day for general anxiety and the heebie geebies. To my surprise, I experienced NO withdrawal effects due to stopping the Effexor (300 mg/day) cold turkey--even after 2+ weeks I feel fine. I am attributing this to the Tegretol, and its ability to prevent major and 'minisezures' and its general calming effect on the brain. CAVEAT: I could be totally wrong. However, I know that Klonopin and/or NSAIDS are not the cause of my lack of withdrawal symptoms, since they have only been of minor help in the past (and I haven't taken any NSAIDS in the past two weeks). I started out on 300 mg Tegretol 4X/day for the first week, dropping to 300 mg 2X/day during the second week. My mood has also remained stable. Keep in mind, however, that Tegretol has side effects of its own--dizziness, drowsiness, light-headed feeling, etc. and in some people it can cause changes in white blood cell counts if taken long term.
I'm curious to know if Dr. Bob has heard any of anecdotal experiences like mine. I don't know if this would work for anyone else, but I would think it's worth a try given some of the posts I read on this site.
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