![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 678 to 702 of 948. Go back in thread:
Posted by Harlock on July 7, 2004, at 12:14:47
In reply to Re: Lamictal Survey, posted by fluffy on August 31, 2003, at 15:45:35
The denial comment kills me... Do older people have a harder time accepting the fact that there IS something "wrong" with them? e.g. My parents. They make a HUGE deal over my disorder (depression/bpII) and keep saying, out loud, "I don't understand where you got this from". I just look at my wife funny when I hear that. The best hostage negotiator couldn't make my parents believe they have any mental problems, even for a second. Oh well, I don't let it bother me.
I denied my condition off and on for a short time, because my symtoms were so random. Now, I fully understand and accept my condition (I'm 35, male).
Oh well, what can ya do. My parents always think there is something wrong with them physically, but you mention mental disorders, and they lose their minds, not pun idended. :)
> Hey Ima--
>
> From what you describe, it sounds like BPII (my formal diagnosis). And it also sounds like you have the agitated depressions---if severe, called mixed states (esp. if there is suicidal ideation). But "normal" depressions can be marked with irritability as well.
>
> I'm quite certain that my dad is also BP. He exhibits a terrible temper--snapping at people for nothing, is physically abusive, camps out in his room for days at a time sleeping, and at other times is jolly. I unfortunately have inherited his wiring--something I've always been afraid of. My grandmother has been hospitalized for as long as I can remember for some unknown psychotic state. My aunt on the same side of the family has suffered from "psychotic" depressions, and had to be hospitalized b/c she was seeing things in the wake of my uncle's death. (this is all only on my dad's side of the family--my mom was adopted, so who knows what's lurking there).
>
> Do you have any family history? It may help you to confirm your diagnosis. As painful as it was for me, it helped me (my mom and dad are TOTALLY in denial)
>
> And you are absolutely correct in getting another psychiatrist. Psychiatrists can be arrogant, stupid, insensitive and misinformed just like other people. I sincerely hope that the new pdoc works out, and works WITH you until you feel you've gotten closer to answers regarding your current situation. If you feel like reading my full story (meds, some personal history, but MAINLY my really insensitive psychiatrist!!) here is the url from earlier in the thread:
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030828/msgs/255630.html
>
> Keep in touch and take care,
> Katy
>
Posted by barbaracat on July 7, 2004, at 13:53:58
In reply to Re: Lamictal Survey, posted by Harlock on July 7, 2004, at 12:14:47
Hi All,
Well, my attempts to let 'er rip and throw myself on the mercy of the Fates without meds didn't work. Yet again. Everything was becoming a crisis in my life. I now realize how that weird wild energy that's part of bipolar can rip one's life apart. It makes everything so intense, everything was so personal and tragic and it was affecting my marriage, my friendships, my family relations. Pissed off, black moods, crying -- for good reasons, all of it, but sooooo sensitive. Called the HMO crisis line and my pdoc called back and put me back on lithium. This was last week and I can't tell you how much better I'm doing. Even the next day that wild jaggy energy started smoothing out.I am bipolar. That's me. I finally accept that however my childhood and life events molded me, my physical component is mis-wired and without addressing that malfunction, I get crazed. I can't reason any longer, can't do my spiritual practice, can't process anything. The hurt spirals out of control and becomes unmanageable and then my life and relationships get messed up causing more stress.
So I thank God for lithium. So far it's doing the trick and I hope it doesn't poop. I see my pdoc today and am going to talk about replacing Ambien with Seroquel for sleep and to help with the bleak despairing psychosis of mixed states, should that beast decide to rear it's ugly head again. Wish me luck, friends, but so far so good. - BarbaraCat
Posted by fluffy on July 7, 2004, at 15:08:30
In reply to Back on lithium and grateful for it! » Harlock, posted by barbaracat on July 7, 2004, at 13:53:58
Hi Barb-cat!!
I was worried about you from your last post. I wanted to reply back, but honestly didn't know what to say. I knew you'd figure it out, though, no matter what. Sometimes I still think about you and Katia when I'm staring into space and smoking at night, wondering how you are. Glad to know you are alright.
I"ve been pretty stable lately--much better than before. I'm taking 750mg of Depakote and .25mg of Risperdal. Funny how such a teensy pill has made such a remarkable difference for me. While I was taking Depakote, I was still markedly cycling (albeit more slowly) with agitated ups and disconnected downs. I still couldn't sleep without a benzo, and I was losing my memory due to no REM sleep. Once we added the Risperdal, within a week I started sleeping and the agitation was completely gone. Now I'm considering a switch to Abilify to see if it helps the depressions I still experience. All in all, the mess is being untangled, and I feel much better than I did a year ago.
It's so great to hear from you! Keep in touch miss Barb-cat!
Katy
Posted by katia on July 7, 2004, at 15:42:02
In reply to Re: Back on lithium and grateful for it!, posted by fluffy on July 7, 2004, at 15:08:30
Fluffy and Barb-Cat!!!
Good to hear from both of you!
Good to hear that we're all doing better than a year ago!
I'm on Trileptal 450mg, Seroquel 25mg, and Paxil 12.5. (and the fish oil). I can still feel the mood swings/cycling but it's easier on me.Katy, how much Trileptal were you on?
And what is Risperal?Barb, good to hear that li. is working well for you and you made the decision to go back on it. I recommend seroquel. I always sleep well on it. Probably too well and too much!
Good to hear from both of you at once!
Katia
Posted by katia on July 7, 2004, at 15:45:33
In reply to Re: Lamictal Survey, posted by Harlock on July 7, 2004, at 12:14:47
Hi harlock,
Yes, these parents are from another generation (I'm 33) and it's actually not within their ability to see that they have a "mental disorder". It's a worldview; a mentality and way of seeing the world that won't allow this new perspective on what they have always known of as reality.
That's what I tell myself anyway. it is frustrating esp. when we're trying to undo and work out what they still do and taught us how!
And then we're the ones considered the troubled one and we somehow got there on our own!
But, you know what? I am just one teensy part of a family system and that's what they forget or rather never learned.
good luck!
katia
Posted by barbaracat on July 7, 2004, at 17:11:03
In reply to Re: Back on lithium and grateful for it!, posted by fluffy on July 7, 2004, at 15:08:30
Fluffy!
So glad to hear from you!!! I was wondering where you'd gotten to and am so glad you're still hangin' and doing well. Wow, you, me and Katia all in one day. We three have some nice karmic thread going and hope to keep in touch.Well, I'm off to see pdoc about getting some Seroquel and will let y'all know how it went. Love, BCat
Posted by fluffy on July 7, 2004, at 17:43:11
In reply to Re: Back on lithium and grateful for it!, posted by katia on July 7, 2004, at 15:42:02
Hi Katia--
Good to hear from you, too! Funny how we were all still connected to the thread. Let's see...I can't really remember how much trileptal I was on. Maybe 600mg? Anyway, it didn't last long for me. I stayed on it for a month before I got sick from it. Glad to hear it's working for you.
Risperdal is another atypical antipsychotic like Seroquel. It was the second atypical to come out after Clozaril. It is not quite as sedating as Seroquel, but it helps me sleep anyway.
So you added Paxil, huh? I wonder what will help the depressions I still dip into weekly. I can almost set my watch. Thankfully I don't have severe symptoms besides a once a week blah depressed day. I'm fighting apathy right now, though. I feel awful complaining to my pdoc that I feel apathetic after all we've been through. I'm hoping that he will be willing to switch me to Abilify to see if it will help that department. I want to give it a try at least. If it's a disaster, then I guess we can go back to Risperdal and I'll just try my best to fight it.
Anyway--I'm so glad the gals are OK!
Katy
Posted by barbaracat on July 8, 2004, at 1:14:01
In reply to Re: Back on lithium and grateful for it!, posted by fluffy on July 7, 2004, at 17:43:11
Hey Katy and Katia,
I know we've always got questions about our meds and one of the thorniest is should a bipolaroid be taking an AD? I've been taking St. John's Wort the past 6 weeks and I'm coming to think that it's a very good AD. Wasn't a good idea without the lithium but I felt I needed something and I ain't never gonna go on SSRI's no mo' no mo'. I felt an effect after 1 week but it was going in and out and I needed the lithium to stabilize and augment things. I don't think it's strong enough on it's own for major depression, but a mood stabilizer gives it a kick and I'm definitely feeling a nice mood brightening as time goes on. I can't attribute it to lithium because we all know that lithium is not a zippy type med. The effect I'm experiencing is one that others have reported (those for whom it's worked which is not everyone). A light and gentle kind of brightening. There's a good forum at www.sjwinfo.org if you're interested.But all brands are not the same and I did alot of research and some trial and error to find the best one for me. Long story short, a pharmaceutical grade with a product stabilizer is the way to go. Some people like Kira or Perika but I found them too activating. The one I like best is HBC Protocols which is pharmaceutical and the cheapest. They're at http://www.hbcstore.com/products-HV280.html. Something else to put in your bag of tricks in case your current med isn't working out. I've had a miserable time with most SSRI-type prescription meds but that was before I realized I was very bipolar mixed states. Keep the faith, girfriends. Good to be back in touch. - Barbara
Posted by katia on July 8, 2004, at 3:14:45
In reply to Re: Back on lithium and grateful for it!, posted by fluffy on July 7, 2004, at 17:43:11
Barbara and Katy!
First off, I'm soooo excited to hear from both of you in one go and I was reading each of your postings with eager eyes devouring each word!Let me respond to each of you individually (and together!)
> Hi Katia--
>
> Good to hear from you, too! Funny how we were all still connected to the thread. Let's see...I can't really remember how much trileptal I was on. Maybe 600mg? Anyway, it didn't last long for me. I stayed on it for a month before I got sick from it. Glad to hear it's working for you.
>
> Risperdal is another atypical antipsychotic like Seroquel. It was the second atypical to come out after Clozaril. It is not quite as sedating as Seroquel, but it helps me sleep anyway.**600mg sound about right. I'm on a low dose of 450mg. I was at 750mg of Dep. as well. It was good but I got such a s/e of sleepiness around 4ish and the fear of PCOS. But in retrospect, the best I felt (apart from now) was at 250mg of Dep. and a low dose of Lam.
**Good that Risperdal helps you sleep. I wonder if it'd do anything for me as I've been taking Sero. for a year now. That's interesting that it isn't quite as sedating as Seroq. b/c I wonder if I'm too sedated!? I'm only on 25mg per night at most nowadays. How're you doing besides Katy?? Haven't heard from you in awhile. Are you still teaching that art history class and doing your own art? Are you still w/ that guy who is also bipolar? and/or depressed?
> So you added Paxil, huh? I wonder what will help the depressions I still dip into weekly. I can almost set my watch. Thankfully I don't have severe symptoms besides a once a week blah depressed day. I'm fighting apathy right now, though. I feel awful complaining to my pdoc that I feel apathetic after all we've been through. I'm hoping that he will be willing to switch me to Abilify to see if it will help that department. I want to give it a try at least. If it's a disaster, then I guess we can go back to Risperdal and I'll just try my best to fight it.
**Apathy is a negative trait of depression and you have every right to complain about it! Being "normal" is not inclusive of apathy BTW!
Yes, I tried (am trying) Paxil. And feel good apart from those dips and such. But they are much less severe now. I've been on quite a trial and error with lots of things. I was off everything (except Seroquel and fish oil) for awhile (as you prob. remember). I remember hearing in between the lines from you that I should be on meds! I bought a house...and it's going great! I found housemates to help me pay the mortgage. It was a blessing for me to find this. I'm still unsure how I managed to do this!And long story short, Paxil is working for me!
And Barb, it's really atypical of me. (in regards to SSRIs and BPs). When I went on Trileptal in Feb. I then added Wellbutrin a month later and went bazeerk-o! And then went off of it and added Lam. for my second trial. It wasn't the euphoric kind this time. I got severly agitated. Went off of that and was having panic attacks almost and went to the pdoc and suggestd I go on Paxil. he agreed. and it seems to be working.Previously, before BP dx, the ADs that made me go hypo were the atypical ones like WB (serzone and effexor). SSRIs, like Celexa and Zoloft made me an insomniac or a zombie. I am not the average BP responder to ADs.
And Barb, re: St. John's wort, Glad to hear that's working for you in combo with Lithium. I think that's what you were missing too was a MS to augment the SJW. Unfortun. Li. did NOT work for me. I became a shuffling drooling stupor. But I did feel the powerful sedating qualities of it; which were positive. So too bad I experienced those negative s/e. Wish I were one it worked for. I know you were on the Li. Ort. Did that not do it for you again? just curious.
GREAT! to be in touch with you two.
Take great care,
Katia
Posted by fluffy on July 8, 2004, at 11:06:34
In reply to Re: Back on lithium and grateful for it!, posted by katia on July 8, 2004, at 3:14:45
Hey again Katia--
Glad to hear that other things are working out for you (life stuff). Things are holding together for me here. I'm still working at the museum bookstore and I will start teaching art appreciation again in the Fall. Hopefully I can get away with teaching two more classes and pay my credit card off. I've been through another moody boyfriend since we last talked. We lasted for about 4 months, and our romantic relationship just ended. We're friends now.
You could give Risperdal a try if you feel like Seroquel is too sedating. I've heard Seroquel is a good drug. It seems to be proving itself to be as good as zyprexa in clinical trials for depression and bipolar II now. Risperdal was also studied on bipolar II patients and was proven to be effective on depression. It's been the most dramatic in terms of effectiveness for me. It's helped me to understand where my defect seems to lie..I think I have a faulty dopamine receptor. Most of the atypical antispychotics are dopamine antagonists, which means that they block excess dopamine. I'm curious about abilify because of its partial dopamine antagonism and agonism. In short, it supposedly moderates dopamine, rather than blocking it--it coaxes dopamine out when there's not enough, and squelches it when there's too much.
I'm trying to work on my art, but lately I haven't FELT it, you know? It's subtle, but I feel like the creative part of my head is being squelched by my current cocktail. I haven't felt inspired by music, food or even sex since I've been on Risperdal. (just icky blah. my excess obsessive thoughts are gone--but almost ALL of my thoughts are GONE!) So I'm not sure if I have to make some kind of nasty trade off. All I can do is tell my doctor what's happening and hope that something can give me a spark back.
All in all, I'm stable, though. And that's saying a lot compared to how I've felt in the past 2 years--zipping up and down--tearful and agitated.
Are you still waiting tables? Keep in touch and take lots of care--
Katy
Posted by katia on July 8, 2004, at 17:06:57
In reply to Re: Back on lithium and grateful for it!, posted by fluffy on July 8, 2004, at 11:06:34
> You could give Risperdal a try if you feel like Seroquel is too sedating. I've heard Seroquel is a good drug. It seems to be proving itself to be as good as zyprexa in clinical trials for depression and bipolar II now. Risperdal was also studied on bipolar II patients and was proven to be effective on depression. It's been the most dramatic in terms of effectiveness for me. It's helped me to understand where my defect seems to lie..I think I have a faulty dopamine receptor. Most of the atypical antispychotics are dopamine antagonists, which means that they block excess dopamine. I'm curious about abilify because of its partial dopamine antagonism and agonism. In short, it supposedly moderates dopamine, rather than blocking it--it coaxes dopamine out when there's not enough, and squelches it when there's too much.
>
**Hi Katy,
Have you tried Abilify? I haven't. I was interested in what you said about the REM sleep and memory loss. How did you coorelate the two? And what meds exactly won't allow for REM? Is Seroquel one of them? Hope not. I've been having a problem with memory and not remembering things period and also confusing what was dream or reality. Could be the alcohol though. Not that I'm drinking more than 2/3 at a time, sometimes nothing at all, sometimes one, but it could be affecting my memory?> I'm trying to work on my art, but lately I haven't FELT it, you know? It's subtle, but I feel like the creative part of my head is being squelched by my current cocktail. I haven't felt inspired by music, food or even sex since I've been on Risperdal. (just icky blah. my excess obsessive thoughts are gone--but almost ALL of my thoughts are GONE!) So I'm not sure if I have to make some kind of nasty trade off. All I can do is tell my doctor what's happening and hope that something can give me a spark back.
>
**I hear you. I've not felt too creative lately either. Maybe it's b/c I've been too busy. yes, still waiting tables and going to grad school.All in all, I'm stable, though. And that's saying a lot compared to how I've felt in the past 2 years--zipping up and down--tearful and agitated.
>
**yes, I know that I'm much better than a year ago as well. No more crazy rapid cycling where the bottom of my world would drop out. I'm still moody, slightly low lately, but nothing too major. I could remedy that one by just exercising and drinking less.**so no boyfriends now? None for me still as well. But I haven't been open to it. I'm beginning to be open to that again now.
keep in touch and take care,
Katia
Posted by barbaracat on July 8, 2004, at 17:20:39
In reply to Re: Back on lithium and grateful for it!, posted by katia on July 8, 2004, at 17:06:57
First day after taking a teeensy (12.5) dose of Seroquel last night. Had very vivid and instructive dreams that I've missed. Haven't really dreamt in a while so I'm very curious about Seroquel's REM effects. The dreams tell me it takes you to stage 3, but it's stage 4 that I need for fibromyalgia healing.
Felt like a board hit me over the head when I woke up and have felt very dopey all day - like duhhhhh!! This is better than the hand-wringing anguish but not so good for cognition. I trust it will go away.
My questions:
- Does the dopeyness go away with time?
- Does the morning 'hit with a board' feeling subside? It never did when I was taking trazodone and I have enough trouble getting out of bed in the best of circumstances.
- What dose maximum do people work up to using it for a bipolar MS and sleeper rather than schizophrenic med?
- Any thoughts on taking dopamine enhancing stuff like tyrosine? I take tyrosine for thyroid health, but if Seroquel is a dopamine antagonist, is tyrosine counter productive?
Posted by katia on July 8, 2004, at 17:35:32
In reply to An update since Seroquel, posted by barbaracat on July 8, 2004, at 17:20:39
> First day after taking a teeensy (12.5) dose of Seroquel last night. Had very vivid and instructive dreams that I've missed. Haven't really dreamt in a while so I'm very curious about Seroquel's REM effects. The dreams tell me it takes you to stage 3, but it's stage 4 that I need for fibromyalgia healing.
**Hey Barb,
That was actually a question I just posed to katy in the previous post re: REM. Seroquel is pretty potent eh? I've been taking it for a year straight. At first I was only taking 6.25mg and now I'm taking almost 25mg. Also, at first, I also took it ocassionally, not every night and noticed when I did take it I was slightly more depressed, slowed down the next day. I am groggy in the morning and sleep like 9 hours or am tired. But I've been taking it for so long now, I don't know if it's worn off those initial s/e or if I've just gotten used to them. I actually do remember being really affected by it at first. Your system just needs to adjust to it. How well were you sleeping prior to Seroquel?Right now, I'd prefer possible slowed downess to insomnia. Insomnia is hell. And with Seroquel i rarely experience it at any time during the night. and when I wake up, I fall easily back to sleep.
I would give it about a month and see if the grogginess goes away or is more tolerable. I definitley need a cup of coffee in the morning to get going and hate to rush off upon awakening.
In january when I was a bit hypo, i was only taking Seroquel and needed from 50-75mg for sleep. From what I've heard, there is a limit on how high you go before the sedation is not a s/e. So if you are on very high doses, sedation isn't a problem. But on small doses, it's used for sleep. Doesn't make sense at all!
Keep me posted.
take care,
Katia
>
> Felt like a board hit me over the head when I woke up and have felt very dopey all day - like duhhhhh!! This is better than the hand-wringing anguish but not so good for cognition. I trust it will go away.
>
> My questions:
> - Does the dopeyness go away with time?
> - Does the morning 'hit with a board' feeling subside? It never did when I was taking trazodone and I have enough trouble getting out of bed in the best of circumstances.
> - What dose maximum do people work up to using it for a bipolar MS and sleeper rather than schizophrenic med?
> - Any thoughts on taking dopamine enhancing stuff like tyrosine? I take tyrosine for thyroid health, but if Seroquel is a dopamine antagonist, is tyrosine counter productive?
Posted by barbaracat on July 8, 2004, at 17:51:38
In reply to Re: Back on lithium and grateful for it!, posted by katia on July 8, 2004, at 17:06:57
Katy and Katia,
Talking about life and relationships, just wanted to fill you in on how my bipolar symptoms were affecting my marriage and all my relationships. In a word - awful. The gripes I had against my husband were real in that he's been dragging his feet about finding work, and with me being out on disability it's pretty scary. But sheesh, the stuff it was triggering about childhood issues was way out of control making it difficult to work anything through. My scared furious child took over and that manic energy fed the terror kept it rattling around and escalating. I was threatening divorce every week and truly felt I'd be better off alone and not subjected to the constant triggering.I was extremely sensitive to the slightest hint of a slight and found my mind obsessing on letters I'd write friends and family, tempted to write them out of my life completely. I was going around with a brittle angry attitude, telling people off and then regretting it. But in many cases, the damage was done.
The thing is, none of my reasons were delusional. Everything had merit, was true in a sense. People had treated me without consideration, people had said dumb offensive things. I won't get into politics on this board, but I'd get absolutely WILD if anyone mentioned they were not committed to getting the current administration OUT. In short, every nerve was on the surface ready to explode. People were just being people as usual, but I had no tolerance during this phase. I was and am truly pissed off, furious, exasperated by Life. That little girl is part of me and that's how she feels, and in the grip of mania, she is the personality that takes over with no access to reason. But she can't run the show. She scares and angers people and destroys everything in her path. And she is so alone and sad.
Lithium feels like my adult or my witness can step in, calm her down, reason with her. It's weird how this happens every time. My marriage has gotten better, I'm a better friend, my therapy is going better. There is simply no reasoning when one is in a labile state. It's pure insanity and it's so easy to hate and blame ourselves for the wreckage left behind and the energy it takes to clean it up. I know I'm not alone in this. Life is difficult for bipolars. Otherwise, what would there be to write about in all these books lately by people who have fessed up to being bipolar?
Posted by barbaracat on July 8, 2004, at 18:28:21
In reply to Re: An update since Seroquel » barbaracat, posted by katia on July 8, 2004, at 17:35:32
>> Also, at first, I also took it ocassionally, not every night and noticed when I did take it I was slightly more depressed, slowed down the next day.
**Yeah, I was feeling just fine yesterday and today I'm kinda down.
>> How well were you sleeping prior to Seroquel?
**Without a sleep med, not at all. I've had trouble sleeping all my life and have memories of lying in my crib awake for hours. For a while last year I was able to titrate off the Ambien and fall asleep without drugs and it was soooo nice. But then my Mom was killed a year ago December and everything unraveled, including my sleep. Ambien has been a good drug, but it's not reliable when I'm hyper or stressed and tends to poop. So, with all the good press Seroquel has been getting for dysphoric mania and as a sleeper, it seemed to make sense.
>
> Right now, I'd prefer possible slowed downess to insomnia. Insomnia is hell. And with Seroquel i rarely experience it at any time during the night. and when I wake up, I fall easily back to sleep.**Yes, insominia will destabilize me faster than anything.
>
> I would give it about a month and see if the grogginess goes away or is more tolerable.**Oh, I'll be patient. New meds are always an interesting journey. I'll keep note of the mild depression too. That's too high a price to pay if it's a constant, and I'll go back to Ambien if I have to. It's important to find something that provides good restful Stage 4 sleep.
I wonder if there's a histimine effect in Seroquel. Have you been following recent research on how some people have high histidine levels and react poorly to anti-histimines? Pretty interesting stuff, along with other new reseach that is finding genetic anomolies in bipolars that tie into many common medical disorders. I'm considering going to the Pfeiffer Institute and submitting myself to all their tests and nutritional protocols.
Posted by katia on July 8, 2004, at 19:09:37
In reply to Re: Back on lithium and grateful for it!, posted by barbaracat on July 8, 2004, at 17:51:38
Besides, Jamison, what books are you talking about?
Glad to hear that you're doing better Barb.
K.
Posted by katia on July 8, 2004, at 19:15:28
In reply to Re: An update since Seroquel » katia, posted by barbaracat on July 8, 2004, at 18:28:21
I haven't been doing any research at all. So I can't comment on that.
How would you submit yourself to the Pfeiffer Institute? and what is that?
Katia
Posted by barbaracat on July 8, 2004, at 21:06:08
In reply to Re: An update since Seroquel » barbaracat, posted by katia on July 8, 2004, at 19:15:28
Many books and authors come to mind. 'Electro Boy', Patty Duke's books. Margot Kidder has become an advocate for bipolars but don't think she's written a book yet. Carrie Fisher is working on one about her long-term bipolar illness. 'The Rooms of Heaven' is a great one, but don't have the author. Virginia Woolf, Ernest Hemingway, Emily Dickinson, Edgar Allen Poe, Sylvia Plath, many more.
The Pfeiffer Treatment Center accepts patients like any other treatment facility. You fill out a questionnaire, are contacted by the staff, make an appointment, pay your money and get your tests and treatment plan. It specializes in uncovering the underlying causes for mood and behavioral disorders and has had success with autism and ADHD. My friend's ADHD son has been helped tremendously by them. I've held off cause it'll probably be about $2k after all is said and done and I'm tired of chasing this thing and being dissapointed with 'cures'. But I'm definitely considering it cause it seems they're on to something. Here's their website:
Been following recent research and it's quite fascinating. Too much to go into here and now, but there's some real progress being made in identifying the why's of bipolar. One interesting factoid is that one of a gene mutation is very similar to the gene sequence possibly involved in schizophrenia. Another is a possible similarity with MS since there seems to be a malfunction with the myelin sheath of the axons like in MS. It's good that there is research going on instead of relegating us to the back 40. Here's a short article on methylation which is getting to be a buzz word in bipolar studies. It also refers to the Pfeiffer Center:
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/3694/102961
> I haven't been doing any research at all. So I can't comment on that.
>
> How would you submit yourself to the Pfeiffer Institute? and what is that?
> Katia
Posted by SandyWeb on July 9, 2004, at 7:31:39
In reply to Re: An update since Seroquel » barbaracat, posted by katia on July 8, 2004, at 17:35:32
Hi girls,
>From what I've heard, there is a limit on how high you go before the sedation is not a s/e. So if you are on very high doses, sedation isn't a problem. But on small doses, it's used for sleep.<
My p-doc just told me that anything over 100mg is getting away from the sedation effects.
Take care.
Sandy
Posted by fluffy on July 9, 2004, at 10:56:18
In reply to Re: An update since Seroquel » katia, posted by SandyWeb on July 9, 2004, at 7:31:39
Hi gals--
From what i've heard, the sedative effects of Seroquel can fade over time. However, I will endorse Risperdal in that department again--it gets me to sleep, but I'm not knocked out. I sleep a little longer than usual, but I can wake up in the morning feeling pretty refreshed. Just another option to consider if the Seroquel doesn't work out. (i know--everyone is different).
As far as REM sleep on atypical AP's go, I'm not sure about a correlation. What I do know is that when I was taking a benzo every night, I wasn't getting ANY REM sleep. if you don't get any REM, lots of icky stuff can happen--one of which is memory problems. I didn't dream for months. Then my memory started slipping really bad. I actually lost my car and then called the cops because I thought it had been stolen or towed, when I had parked it at a friend's house only hours earlier. It started to get scary, so I asked my doc if he thought it could be the benzo. He thought it might be a combination of the benzo and that my Depakote dose was a bit too high. Once I started to sleep without Temazepam, I slowly regained my memory back. Another thing that blocks REM sleep is ALCHOHOL. So if you are drinking, you probably won't get a quality night's sleep.
Gotta go--take care gals--
Katy
Posted by fluffy on July 9, 2004, at 11:13:29
In reply to Re: An update since Seroquel, posted by fluffy on July 9, 2004, at 10:56:18
Hey Barb-cat--
You mentioned something about the correlation between schizophrenia and bipolar. I'm really interested in this since the drug that fits me the best is intended for schizophrenia--AND, what do you know, my grandmother is schizophrenic (or schizophreniform, schizoaffective--not really sure). So in a way, it makes a lot of sense that the atypical AP's are for me.
Like I said, I think I have a faulty dopamine receptor or two. I also wonder about dopamine agonists WITH antagonists. I've tried to do some research, and I don't get much--there seems to be conflicting info. But I know for a fact that there are people who take zyprexa and mirapex together, for example. So apparently it can be done and IS done for some reason. Also--Abilify is supposed to do the same thing with one pill. The NIMH is doing a study on Mirapex and bipolar depression right now. I think they are just starting to figure this stuff out. If you sniff out any good articles about dopamine agonism/antagonism, I'd love to read them.
Anyway--enough rambling from me--
Katy
Posted by fluffy on July 9, 2004, at 14:12:24
In reply to correlation btwn schizophrenia and bipolar, posted by fluffy on July 9, 2004, at 11:13:29
By the way...
That NIMH study for Mirapex (dopamine agonist) has been published. I just found it today on McMan's:
http://www.mcmanweb.com/news.htm
60% response rate versus 9% placebo.
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 9, 2004, at 15:44:36
In reply to correlation btwn schizophrenia and bipolar, posted by fluffy on July 9, 2004, at 11:13:29
Hi Katy,
I'll gather together what I've found so far. There were a few stories just recently about finding a similar gene sequence for BP and Sch but I don't remember the exact sources. I'm signed up with alot of medical subscription services. One good one that usually has something is http://www.the-scientist.com/. You have to sign up once for free, but it's packed with more data than you'll ever use. BTW, I love the McManweb site.As far as schizophrenia, I've wondered the same thing. There's so much cross over with these disorders, you know? In the grip of my most severe bipolar symptoms it seems pretty classic schizoaffective to me, complete with voices and visions. What makes it not schizophrenia, I've been told, is it's transitory nature, coming only with the bipolar cycles. Schizoprenia is an all the time thing. But too much dopamine seems a contender in psychotic phenonmena. But then again, LSD and hallucinogens are a serotonin affect so who knows? It's worth pursuing.
> Hey Barb-cat--
>
> You mentioned something about the correlation between schizophrenia and bipolar. I'm really interested in this since the drug that fits me the best is intended for schizophrenia--AND, what do you know, my grandmother is schizophrenic (or schizophreniform, schizoaffective--not really sure). So in a way, it makes a lot of sense that the atypical AP's are for me.
>
> Like I said, I think I have a faulty dopamine receptor or two. I also wonder about dopamine agonists WITH antagonists. I've tried to do some research, and I don't get much--there seems to be conflicting info. But I know for a fact that there are people who take zyprexa and mirapex together, for example. So apparently it can be done and IS done for some reason. Also--Abilify is supposed to do the same thing with one pill. The NIMH is doing a study on Mirapex and bipolar depression right now. I think they are just starting to figure this stuff out. If you sniff out any good articles about dopamine agonism/antagonism, I'd love to read them.
>
> Anyway--enough rambling from me--
>
> Katy
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 9, 2004, at 16:02:43
In reply to Re: An update since Seroquel, posted by fluffy on July 9, 2004, at 10:56:18
Hi Katy,
Have you ever been on Seroquel? I know you're interested in Abilify. Is that because you've been dealing with depression breakthroughs and don't feel Risperdal is addressing it adequately? Is it the dual dopamine action that interests you about it?I agree about the alcohol and REM. I'm not drinking much at all these days. Oh, a snootful every few nights but just a wee dram, nothing like I used to. I notice my sleep is much better on those nights I have nothing at all. Alcohol, such a seductive poison.
Ambien has been pretty good as far as REM sleep, at least it's touted that way. But yowza, the last two nights on Seroquel feel like I've been at the movies all night long. Orlando Bloom was in one of them. Sigh, didn't wanna wake up... I only took 6 mg last night and it was fine. Got up feeling groggy but made myself do some situps first thing and that took care of it. A good incentive to lose the belly pudge. I don't feel nearly as depressed as yesterday. Pretty good, in fact. - BCat
> Hi gals--
>
> From what i've heard, the sedative effects of Seroquel can fade over time. However, I will endorse Risperdal in that department again--it gets me to sleep, but I'm not knocked out. I sleep a little longer than usual, but I can wake up in the morning feeling pretty refreshed. Just another option to consider if the Seroquel doesn't work out. (i know--everyone is different).
>
> As far as REM sleep on atypical AP's go, I'm not sure about a correlation. What I do know is that when I was taking a benzo every night, I wasn't getting ANY REM sleep. if you don't get any REM, lots of icky stuff can happen--one of which is memory problems. I didn't dream for months. Then my memory started slipping really bad. I actually lost my car and then called the cops because I thought it had been stolen or towed, when I had parked it at a friend's house only hours earlier. It started to get scary, so I asked my doc if he thought it could be the benzo. He thought it might be a combination of the benzo and that my Depakote dose was a bit too high. Once I started to sleep without Temazepam, I slowly regained my memory back. Another thing that blocks REM sleep is ALCHOHOL. So if you are drinking, you probably won't get a quality night's sleep.
>
> Gotta go--take care gals--
> Katy
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 9, 2004, at 16:09:29
In reply to Re: An update since Seroquel » katia, posted by SandyWeb on July 9, 2004, at 7:31:39
How do you feel on that high a dose? Is this something a person slowly builds up to or would someone start out this high for antipsychotic benefits rather than using it as a BP mood stabiliser? I've only been on it 2 days but 6mg konked me out. I can't imagine 100mg. What is tolerance like?
> Hi girls,
>
> >From what I've heard, there is a limit on how high you go before the sedation is not a s/e. So if you are on very high doses, sedation isn't a problem. But on small doses, it's used for sleep.<
>
> My p-doc just told me that anything over 100mg is getting away from the sedation effects.
>
> Take care.
>
> Sandy
>
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