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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 145 to 169 of 183. Go back in thread:
Posted by linkadge on September 1, 2007, at 17:53:35
In reply to Tianeptine Not Daily, posted by Ayuma on August 29, 2007, at 20:37:16
What do you mean by the herbs make you feel estrogenic?
I am not doubting what you say, just curious.
Linkadge
Posted by sukarno on September 2, 2007, at 4:21:37
In reply to Re: Tianeptine Not Daily, posted by linkadge on September 1, 2007, at 17:53:35
The half-life of tianeptine is only 2.5 hours. This is very short and according to a psychiatrist I know, taking it less than 3 times a day wouldn't be advisable as it would lack efficacy.
As far as I know, all antidepressants, with the exception of fluoxetine (Prozac), must be taken daily, with the short-acting compounds being taken more than once a day.
Posted by tammytab on September 25, 2007, at 1:55:27
In reply to Re: 18 months on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by sukarno on May 22, 2007, at 4:30:18
I tried Stablon for a few weeks. I definitely noticed some positive effects right away - more energy yet an overall sense of calm, no more insomnia, brightened mood. However, a few weeks into taking it (3x day) I had a couple of severe crashes where I fell into some of the deepest pits of depression I have ever experienced. It's tough to say whether or not that was the Stablon or my situation. I'm now on Wellbutrin XL and it's kept me completely level, but I don't have the sense of peace that came with the Stablon. I'm very interested in trying the two together but am not sure how productive that would be. If anyone has experience with that please post it!
Posted by Ayuma on September 25, 2007, at 18:20:09
In reply to Re: Tianeptine Not Daily, posted by linkadge on September 1, 2007, at 17:53:35
Posted by Ayuma on September 25, 2007, at 20:07:54
In reply to Re: Tianeptine Not Daily, posted by sukarno on September 2, 2007, at 4:21:37
> The half-life of tianeptine is only 2.5 hours. This is very short and according to a psychiatrist I know, taking it less than 3 times a day wouldn't be advisable as it would lack efficacy.
>
> As far as I know, all antidepressants, with the exception of fluoxetine (Prozac), must be taken daily, with the short-acting compounds being taken more than once a day.
>
>Thanks a lot for providing the info. I've been put on (by myself)* Tianeptine 3 weeks ago. So today it's my third-week completion. About every other day I also take 100 mg of Modafinil for better motivation and energy. I then would add caffeine for my exercise and weight lifting sessions about 3~4 times a week and Stablon really seems to help prevent the terrible "crash" that usually comes during or after an intense/heavy free-weight workout plus some sugary post-wk drinks afterwards. Basically stablon seems to act like a stimulant that allows me to experience a very euphoric workout at the gym while listening to my I-Pod the music sounded amazing giving better motivation and intensity instead of giving up and leaving the fitness centre sooner. From within past three weeks I started with 2 tabs a day, and then a few days later I make it up to 3 tablets a day ... and then one morning I woke up with a not-so-pleasant feeling of over-stimulantion (I.e rapid heartbeat, "fight or flight" getting stucks) by Stablon so I cut it back to 2 a day. And then, just 3 to 4 days ago I suddenly experience a "crash" I was terribly depressed so I immediately up the dosage to 4 to 6 tablets a day and then I am perfectly fine again. Overall it seems to be somewhat of a difficult drug to work with, but certainly not impossible , either. (It's nothing - Nothing compared to the last generation of SSRIs that came with a vast array of unbearable side effects and addiction or withdrawal symptoms, etc..) It just takes patience and time, and - my long term dosages are not guaranteed since locally I can't find a physician who even knows what it is too new. No insurance of any kind but I find it isn't difficult to purchase it in bulk with fairly cheap price online, that is - so long you're lucky enough that you don't run into problem with the local Customs. (Stablon isn't a controlled substance so far.)
Posted by Ayuma on September 29, 2007, at 23:46:34
In reply to Re: Tianeptine Not Daily, posted by linkadge on September 1, 2007, at 17:53:35
I mean that some herbs such as St. John's Wort or the nutrient 5-htp or soy amongst others they all raises serotonin in the brain and as a result of more serotonin it also means more Estrogen in our bodies that causes side effects such as fatigue haziness lack of motivation aggressiveness, etc. Male (and sometimes, female) bodybuilders try to avoid anything that raise estrogen ... therefore, their better solution would be anti-depression through adrenaline or dopamine means. A good one is cocaine, but since in reality nobody use it anymore we all turn to Zyban or the newer generation of anti-depressants that raise male hormone instead of turning one into a wuss or sis. (I mean for a MALE !!!!!!!!! )
> What do you mean by the herbs make you feel estrogenic?
>
> I am not doubting what you say, just curious.
>
> Linkadge
Posted by sukarno on September 30, 2007, at 15:26:28
In reply to Re: Tianeptine Not Daily (follow up for linkadge), posted by Ayuma on September 29, 2007, at 23:46:34
I just did some googling and it appears that estrogen can increase serotonin levels, but I'm not sure if serotonin can raise estrogen. I guess it's possible.
There is a large group of people who suffer from post-SSRI sexual dysfunction that persists long after the SSRI was discontinued. In many of these cases, the hormone testosterone was low and their doctor prescribed them testosterone.
I feel amotivational, fatigued and a bit emotional at times. I also have almost no libido whatsoever. I'm not on SSRIs though and this has been going on long before I began taking Stablon in March/April 2005.
Dopaminergic drugs would be interesting. I know they help libido, energy, motivation and depression in many cases. The sad thing is that pharmaceutical companies keep developing serotonergic drugs and one of the few good dopaminergic drugs, namely amineptine, was removed from the market in 1999.
I've heard that pramipexole (Mirapex) has been useful when used off-label for treatment-resistant depression. It is a dopamine agonist (D2/D3 receptor agonist).
Posted by fuchsia on October 1, 2007, at 8:08:09
In reply to Re: Tianeptine Not Daily (follow up for linkadge), posted by Ayuma on September 29, 2007, at 23:46:34
>t of more serotonin it also means more Estrogen in our bodies that causes side effects such as fatigue haziness lack of motivation aggressiveness, etc. Male (and sometimes, female) bodybuilders try to avoid anything that raise estrogen ...
I am a female and when my oestrogen is higher I feel the opposite of what you describe ie I am more energetic, more motivated and in a better mood. When it falls I get the symptoms that you describe that you get when the oestrogen is increasing.
fuchsia
Posted by Ayuma on October 2, 2007, at 14:42:01
In reply to Tianeptine good for panic disorder?, posted by sukarno on March 23, 2005, at 5:50:47
I've had panic attacks while on Stablon. only that it seemed somewhat less severe. I didn't take stablon for panic attacks, because, I was already able to deal with them through a special technique, called "One Move", that can really only be learn by working with professionals (who's trained for such rare technique.) The very first time I applied "One Move" into my anxiety attack experience it blew my mind totally, because it is the first time that I don't have to take a drug that it can immediately trick my brain (anytime, anywhere - unnoticed by others) into releasing massive amount of naturally occurring relaxing chemicals that resemble that of an effective dosage of Alprozolam (Xanax). Ever since I'm forever freed from panic attacks and I'm able to consume massive amount of coffee/caffeine or stimulant and still never afraid of another panic attack again ... if anything I'm expecting or haunting one down the road (you have to want one to come your way daily to keep one from coming back, after applying One Move) I have been housebound for years but as a result of finally-free (due to One Move taught by my utmost updated therapist) I plan to travel all over the world in the near future (but won't take meds with me in case there might be customs problems.)
Posted by Maria3667 on October 7, 2007, at 14:29:17
In reply to Re: Tianeptine good for panic disorder?, posted by Ayuma on October 2, 2007, at 14:42:01
Just the opposite I guess! Tianeptine GAVE me panic disorder, if anything.
Yes great for depression, but I'd steer well clear if you already have panic/anxiety attacks...Just my 2 cents.
Maria
> I've had panic attacks while on Stablon. only that it seemed somewhat less severe. I didn't take stablon for panic attacks, because, I was already able to deal with them through a special technique, called "One Move", that can really only be learn by working with professionals (who's trained for such rare technique.) The very first time I applied "One Move" into my anxiety attack experience it blew my mind totally, because it is the first time that I don't have to take a drug that it can immediately trick my brain (anytime, anywhere - unnoticed by others) into releasing massive amount of naturally occurring relaxing chemicals that resemble that of an effective dosage of Alprozolam (Xanax). Ever since I'm forever freed from panic attacks and I'm able to consume massive amount of coffee/caffeine or stimulant and still never afraid of another panic attack again ... if anything I'm expecting or haunting one down the road (you have to want one to come your way daily to keep one from coming back, after applying One Move) I have been housebound for years but as a result of finally-free (due to One Move taught by my utmost updated therapist) I plan to travel all over the world in the near future (but won't take meds with me in case there might be customs problems.)
Posted by Ayuma on October 8, 2007, at 14:20:54
In reply to Re: Tianeptine good for panic disorder? » Ayuma, posted by Maria3667 on October 7, 2007, at 14:29:17
Wow. That's interesting. In my case Stablon didn't seem to help with depression in the long run (unless I keep up the dosages every now and then impossible because I have very limited supply.) So I've finally decided I really can't count on Stablon ALONE to fight my depressed feelings or anxious, etc. I have to have back up plans. And my back-ups are Neurontin (Gabapentin) in occasional limited dosage as well as maybe some other herbs and natural ingredients, and then, meditation (skills). But, I've once tried to combine Provigil (Modafinil), Stablon (Tianeptine) as well as Neurontin (Gabapentin) 1200 mg, plus a can of extremely potent, barely legal energy drink off the market - ALL AT ONCE with very euphoric effects. I'd end up having a nutty ride although I could control myself if I really wanted to such as working/driving/socializing, etc. It was a bit too much adrenaline for me to handle and I wouldn't recommend anyone else who are not experienced with potent stims. - it really weren't that pleasant after all - in some ways - because Neurontin is a mild-tranqulizer that also gives extra Adrenaline boost to the user. (so is Stablon.) Too much adrenaline can be a very torturing feeling deep within.
> Just the opposite I guess! Tianeptine GAVE me panic disorder, if anything.
> Yes great for depression, but I'd steer well clear if you already have panic/anxiety attacks...
>
> Just my 2 cents.
> Maria
Posted by Maria3667 on October 8, 2007, at 14:39:57
In reply to Re: Tianeptine good for panic disorder (+ adrenal?, posted by Ayuma on October 8, 2007, at 14:20:54
Ayuma,
Yes interesting!
It just goes to show how very individual everyone's neurochemistry is.
In order to find out what's gone wrong with the circuitry, I suppose you have to discover which neurotransmitter is out of whack for you...
For me, it's definately not serotonine, because everytime I up that, I go beserk (sp?) with fear.
After MUCH MUCHOS MULTIDOS trial & error, I've come to the conclusion I probably need a Norepinephrine (NE) downplayer. Problem is, they don't have one drug that solely plays on this receptor. That's why I'm awaiting Gepirone with great anticipation (only a bit worried the influence of dual effect on the serotonine receptor)...But wouldn't you also want to clean the slate as much as possible? All these combinations, upping this, lowering that, confuse me. In the end, it's difficult to tell which pill is responsible for which result...
May be I'm hoping for ONE magic bullet which will never come. H'mmmm, in Star Trek this whole mindbogling thing was solved with just 1 single jab in the neck, if I remember correctly, for captain Janeway & her crew... If they can do it, so should we!
> Wow. That's interesting. In my case Stablon didn't seem to help with depression in the long run (unless I keep up the dosages every now and then impossible because I have very limited supply.) So I've finally decided I really can't count on Stablon ALONE to fight my depressed feelings or anxious, etc. I have to have back up plans. And my back-ups are Neurontin (Gabapentin) in occasional limited dosage as well as maybe some other herbs and natural ingredients, and then, meditation (skills). But, I've once tried to combine Provigil (Modafinil), Stablon (Tianeptine) as well as Neurontin (Gabapentin) 1200 mg, plus a can of extremely potent, barely legal energy drink off the market - ALL AT ONCE with very euphoric effects. I'd end up having a nutty ride although I could control myself if I really wanted to such as working/driving/socializing, etc. It was a bit too much adrenaline for me to handle and I wouldn't recommend anyone else who are not experienced with potent stims. - it really weren't that pleasant after all - in some ways - because Neurontin is a mild-tranqulizer that also gives extra Adrenaline boost to the user. (so is Stablon.) Too much adrenaline can be a very torturing feeling deep within.
>
>
>
> > Just the opposite I guess! Tianeptine GAVE me panic disorder, if anything.
> > Yes great for depression, but I'd steer well clear if you already have panic/anxiety attacks...
> >
> > Just my 2 cents.
> > Maria
>
Posted by mike_robertz on November 11, 2007, at 7:51:38
In reply to Re: Tianeptine good for panic disorder (+ adrenal? » Ayuma, posted by Maria3667 on October 8, 2007, at 14:39:57
Has anyone tried stablon for asthma ? I have been taking one 12.5mg tablet a day for 10 days with mixed results although overall my asthma seems to have improved
Unfortunately my insomnia seems to have got worse - has anyone else found this as a side effect?
mike
Posted by Sigismund on November 11, 2007, at 12:55:55
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and asthma, posted by mike_robertz on November 11, 2007, at 7:51:38
So you take 1 tablet a day?
It's not very long acting.
Perhaps you could try taking it first thing in the morning?
ATM I am splitting mine and taking one and a half or two a day.
I have never taken mine near bedtime. Normally my last dose is in the afternoon.
It's been sleep neutral for me (I think).
Posted by sukarno on November 12, 2007, at 7:40:17
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and asthma, posted by mike_robertz on November 11, 2007, at 7:51:38
Hi Mike. :)
Well, I began taking tianeptine for anxiety and depression, but I also have asthma and I believe it has reduced the frequency of my attacks. That said, if I am exposed to a potent allergen, I'll still have asthmatic symptoms.
You can try taking 1/2 tablet twice a day, with the last dose no later than the afternoon. You can gradually increase the dose to the recommended 3 times a day regimen or as per your doctor's orders.
Please keep us updated on your progress and post here again in a week or so. I'd like to see how your asthma is doing then. Hopefully it will improve even more.
I'm still taking four tablets a day and have found that in the long term it has no negative effects on my sleep. I can take it at bedtime and have no problems. Rarely it can make me feel slightly drowsy, although I wouldn't say it is sedating. I'll take one and then feel like taking a nap. I then wake up feeling refreshed.
If I increase the dosage, then certainly I'll wake up in the middle of the night unable to return to sleep. That's just a temporary side effect that should resolve in a week or two as your body adjusts.
Good luck.Paul
Posted by kaleidoscope on November 12, 2007, at 15:36:43
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and asthma, posted by sukarno on November 12, 2007, at 7:40:17
Hi Paul, glad to hear you're doing well!
Posted by sukarno on November 13, 2007, at 5:51:10
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and asthma » sukarno, posted by kaleidoscope on November 12, 2007, at 15:36:43
Hi there! :-)
I am feeling better, but I wish I could find an antidepressant that would make me feel like I did when I was on imipramine sans the side effects. Stablon was designed to help depressive illness but it seems that it isn't as "strong" as imipramine was. I remember feeling good all the time on imipramine, but it was loaded with side effects with cardiovascular toxicity prevailing as my chief complaint.
Prior to Stablon, I'd say (on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the worst) my depression was an 8 or 9. After being on Stablon for the long term, my depression is a 3 or 4. On imipramine it was more like a 1 or 2.
I am reluctant to try newer drugs because the clinical trials will say drug "Y" or "Z", for example, are generally well-tolerated and safe, but in post-marketing reports there will usually be more side effects listed, or even toxic, allergic and fatal reactions. Remember how this happened with the weight loss drugs? They were said to be safe in the beginning, but then came in reports of heart valve problems, some of which were fatal. Then there is nefazodone (Serzone) which injured or killed quite a few people. As a result, I'm very scared to try anything new.
However, I wish there was something newer that is safe like Stablon, but helps depression a bit more... Just enough to keep me feeling well most of the time. Right now I feel below par, but not normal. That's better than feeling anhedonic or melancholic and in the depths of major depression, but my quality of life isn't where I'd like it to be.
Stablon is a move in the right direction and it has been on the market since 1988, so that's almost 20 years. I suppose one could say it's tried and true.
Let's hope something a bit better will come along! :-)
It could be that I only need a higher dose of Stablon, but my finances prohibit doing so.
How is your regimen coming along?
Posted by kaleidoscope on November 13, 2007, at 14:27:01
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and asthma, posted by sukarno on November 13, 2007, at 5:51:10
Hi Paul,
Nothing much has changed for me!
I'm sorry tianeptine isn't working as well as you need it to. How long is it since you took any of the other tricyclics?
Ed
Posted by sukarno on November 13, 2007, at 16:25:01
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and asthma » sukarno, posted by kaleidoscope on November 13, 2007, at 14:27:01
Hi Ed! :-)
I hope you are doing well.
I haven't tried the old school tricyclics since 1989, so it's been a long time. I think I have a problem with CYP2D6 not being effective enough at breaking down certain drugs like imipramine. It seems that every drug I've taken that is metabolised by that enzyme system has much stronger than usual effects. Even when I was taking Prozac, I only needed 0.5mg/day and I still had some powerful side effects in the beginning such as panic attacks, nausea and sweating.
I wonder if I was born with that flaw or that it happened later on? Perhaps I could try nortriptyline at a very minute dose. What I've found with SSRIs is that I have to take roughly 1/20 the standard adult dose.
Paul
Posted by douglass on November 13, 2007, at 17:56:03
In reply to Re: serotonin , dopamine and estrogen, posted by sukarno on September 30, 2007, at 15:26:28
you are right about the dopamine drugs being pro-sexual. GHB is by far the most pro sexual drug I've ever tried. Amineptine is also very pro sexual. Dostinex is being used as the aphrodesiac of choice in most circles where sexual performance is desired along with pramipexole coming in second. It is purely dopaminergic so a strong sexual feeling or libido is part of the dopaminergics.
The drugs most popular like cialis or the purple pill act by acting on the vessel receptors that expand the blood vessels feeding the penile area due to increasing nitric oxide, L arginine will do this to a point. These drugs only cause erection without the libido effect so that has to be nurtured durring sexual performance. Dopaminergics are just "horny" drugs if there is no physical reason for attaining erection.
Serotonergics act adversely on the libido but also causes a dysfunction of normal physical performance. I'm not sure how far I can go into explaining this without offending someone.
Posted by sukarno on November 14, 2007, at 3:52:28
In reply to Re: serotonin , dopamine and estrogen, posted by douglass on November 13, 2007, at 17:56:03
I wonder if that's why Stablon doesn't boost libido very much, but also doesn't lower it. It is serotonergic but also slightly dopaminergic. So you have one aspect of it trying to dampen libido and the other trying to raise it.
A big problem with folks on antidepressants (especially SSRIs) is the loss of libido. This can be permanent in some cases as there are case reports already and support groups on the internet for people with post-SSRI sexual dysfunction.
Drug companies and doctors would say this is because of depression, and although depression can lower libido, one would think the libido would come back to normal when the antidepressant effect kicked in and restored a somewhat normal mood.No one should be forced to lose something in order to gain something. Losing libido in order to be depression-free is not an option and never will be an option for me. I probably speak for a lot of folks when I say that.
This is why amineptine is such a great antidepressant: it works so well and also does not dampen libido. If anything, it gives it a boost.
I would say that if you are married, definitely do not take SSRIs. That could ruin a marriage, especially if you ended up with permanent sexual dysfunction.
Having said that, if the depression is so bad that you can't live your life anymore and SSRIs are the only options, then I guess one would have to take the SSRI, but hopefully only for the short term because of the sexual toxicity.Paul
Posted by florence on November 15, 2007, at 0:11:09
In reply to Re: serotonin , dopamine and estrogen, posted by sukarno on November 14, 2007, at 3:52:28
I keep reading this repeatedly- especially on this site........Must depend on the specific receptors, I guess....and to what extent they bind to that receptor.....and whether it binds pre-synaptically or post-synaptically.......and on and on....Thanks for mentioning the possible long term effects...........I found out about long term effects from a drug called Lupron.
.....no longer trust ANY drug; any dr; any insurance co; any pharm company......And I think things will get much much worse since drugs are now advertisd on tv.Short term "relief"; long term effects......for some....Too late to "sue" ... just hope unethical pharm. companies topple BIG time ... like the tobacco companies... (and I smoke)....oh well, i guess i know too much after 30 yrs of drugs and pain........florence
**************************************************
I wonder if that's why Stablon doesn't boost libido very much, but also doesn't lower it. It is serotonergic but also slightly dopaminergic. So you have one aspect of it trying to dampen libido and the other trying to raise it.
>
> A big problem with folks on antidepressants (especially SSRIs) is the loss of libido. This can be permanent in some cases as there are case reports already and support groups on the internet for people with post-SSRI sexual dysfunction.
>
> Drug companies and doctors would say this is because of depression, and although depression can lower libido, one would think the libido would come back to normal when the antidepressant effect kicked in and restored a somewhat normal mood.
>
> No one should be forced to lose something in order to gain something. Losing libido in order to be depression-free is not an option and never will be an option for me. I probably speak for a lot of folks when I say that.
>
> This is why amineptine is such a great antidepressant: it works so well and also does not dampen libido. If anything, it gives it a boost.
>
> I would say that if you are married, definitely do not take SSRIs. That could ruin a marriage, especially if you ended up with permanent sexual dysfunction.
>
> Having said that, if the depression is so bad that you can't live your life anymore and SSRIs are the only options, then I guess one would have to take the SSRI, but hopefully only for the short term because of the sexual toxicity.
>
> Paul
Posted by fuchsia on November 15, 2007, at 7:30:25
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and asthma, posted by sukarno on November 13, 2007, at 5:51:10
Hello Paul
I have a few questions for you if you don't mind answering.
How long have you been on the Stablon? I have seen quite a few of your posts about it.
When you went on it did you experience slow improvement over a long period of time or did the response plateau early? If the former when do you think you reached the full response?
How long had you been on the Stablon for when you felt you needed to increase the dose? Did you then regain the previous response for a while and if so how long did that last?
I've been on it for 2 1/2 months and I thought I was gradually getting a small to moderate effect. I am subject to frequent episodes of severe depression which last 1-2 weeks and I haven't had these since I went on the Stablon but unfortunately one just came on a couple of days ago.
Thanks.
fuchsia
Posted by sukarno on November 16, 2007, at 13:24:24
In reply to Re: Tianeptine long term and tolerance » sukarno, posted by fuchsia on November 15, 2007, at 7:30:25
Hi Fuchsia! :-)
I've been on Stablon since late March 2005. I began with 1 tablet taken three times daily. I noticed no effects until the 12th day and the effects were very much like a stimulant effect (similar to adrenaline), but no effects on my heart rate or rhythm. I also felt a throbbing headache similar to the type of headache you would get from abrupt caffeine withdrawal. I had to lower the dose for a few days and raise it (a lot of fine-tuning) until this went away.
The antidepressant effect began a few days after the stimulant/adrenaline-like started. It got better in the long-term. My mood improved, anxiety decreased and the headache disappeared. No more stimulant effects.
This beneficial effect on my mood continued for a month or two and then it seemed to lose some of its efficacy. My depression returned, but not as bad as it was prior to taking Stablon. I then raised the dosage to 1 tablet taken four times daily. Efficacy was restored and this lasted for a few months.
It slightly pooped out again and I didn't raise or lower the dose. Within one week, the depressive symptoms disappeared and efficacy was back to where it was before. It was once again working well. It could have been a rough time in my life.
I tried lowering the dose to 3 tablets/day and then finally 2 tablets/day. I had a panic attack or two (but nothing major in terms of anxiety)..along with a restless feeling like when you quit smoking. Depression began to return, but not severely as it was prior to beginning Stablon.I then raised the dose to 3 tablets/day and without having to wait more than a few days, efficacy was restored. Relief was rapid. I began to think Stablon could be habit-forming at this point and began to have dreams (Stablon, like all antidepressants and psychotropic drugs, can give you vivid dreams) about Stablon. I'd be in a shop in my dream and see boxes and bags of Stablon and that would be the focus of the dream. That happened a lot, but I wouldn't say Stablon is addictive, at least not for me. Habit-forming like smoking, possibly, but not as bad as smoking.
I did experience euphoria a few times when raising the dose or after the third or last dose of the day, but that did not happen often. In fact, that was rare.
To put it this way, I could not imagine a life without Stablon. Perhaps this is because it has helped me, but at the same time, if my funds were unlimited, I'd be tempted to keep raising the dose. Sorry, I didn't mean to give any bad PR about this medication. This is just how I feel. I also think that being on it for a long time makes it more difficult to reduce the dose. I did have cravings for it when I tapered. I think it might also trigger compulsive behavior, since it does modulate the D2/D3 (important here is the D3 dopamine receptor). I've felt the urge (strong urge) to go out and gamble, but I've never gambled in my life and never had those thoughts prior to this.
Interestingly, it seems to have reduced my urge to smoke. I'm a non-smoker and have been for 15 years, but the urge still bothers me. However, on Stablon it seems that the urge is lower. I'm not sure why. This could be because of Stablon's action on dopamine. Zyban works on dopamine too and helps to curb the urge to smoke.Whenever I did lower the dose for a while and went back to the original dose, I felt my mood restored in a very short time, which was great. There wasn't really much of a delay.
I've found 4 tablets a day to be the right dosage for me. Higher doses have not proved their usefulness. I've tried 2 tablets three times daily and felt little benefit from it. If anything I had some mild stomach pains that never occurred with the 3 or 4 tablet a day regimen.What is your dosage? In the clinical trials they were trying dosages of 25 to 75mg/day (2 to 6 tablets).
If you are on 3 tablets/day you could try increasing it to 4 tablets/day and be sure to space the dose 4 hours apart. 8am, noon, 4pm, 8pm
I've found that to work best for myself anyway. Everyone is different though.Four tablets a day doesn't seem to "poop out", unlike the 3 tablets/day regimen I was previously on. I've been taking 4 tables a day for 2 years.
It might take 2 or 3 months total for the full response.
Beware of any possible dependence. I feel this drug does have habit-forming potential. I never felt that imipramine or fluoxetine had this potential. This could be because it is short-acting and/or because of its action of dopamine, increasing its concentration in the nucleus accumbens (an area that other addictive drugs act on) and frontal cortex. It also accelerates/enhances the reuptake of serotonin, concentrating serotonin in different areas of the brain than other antidepressants.
There's some information here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianeptine
With all of that said, I think the benefits outweigh the risks of any dependence that may or may not form. Clearly I am better off than I was before I began taking Stablon and I've suffered from depression since 1987.Good luck to you and please keep us informed by posting here. :-)
Best wishes,
Paul
Posted by FredPotter on November 18, 2007, at 1:19:31
In reply to Dopamine lowers Serotonin and vice versa, posted by florence on November 15, 2007, at 0:11:09
My Dr failed to warn me of long term side effects of statin drugs. This is relevant since one of them is depression, plus painful muscles, difficulty in walking. That was a few years ago and these effects were not known then. However I still have 6 boxes left and not one contains the information slip. This is lax of the pharmacist I think. Do you think I should sue him?
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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