![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on December 12, 2008, at 23:13:40
Loggin in....
_________________________________________Anyways, Why are doctors so "rampant" on Seroquel? is it the drug companies that are paying them extra for a "reward" when really it's not for the patient and causes depression, and slowing of mental thinking.
See, i understand, today....the use of mood stablizers has increased...Lamicatal, Geodon, Abilify (both antipsychotic's also) which... really "antipsychotics" are mood darkener's in some cases, other cases...they bring relief, so you can function. Obviously because it's a degrulation of dopamine, and serotonin, that cause "awkward behavior".
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/18/health/psychology/18imag.html?pagewanted=2
Posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2008, at 0:06:34
In reply to 'mental illness, in brain scans', posted by rjlockhart04-08 on December 12, 2008, at 23:13:40
The Amen Clinic is rather famous. He is using special scans not MRI's etc. Love Phillipa
Posted by yxibow on December 13, 2008, at 0:25:26
In reply to Re: 'mental illness, in brain scans' » rjlockhart04-08, posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2008, at 0:06:34
> The Amen Clinic is rather famous. He is using special scans not MRI's etc. Love Phillipa
I'd put skeptical on famous -- infamous, the "Amen Clinic", its fairly "unproven science"
http://www.quackwatch.org/06ResearchProjects/amen.html
At least one opinion anyhow. And insurance doesn't cover SPECT for mental illness typically. Its an investigational tool at the moment.
Its sort of akin to those "full body scan" clinics. Yes, I suppose if you did a full MRI you might find something but then again I'm sure there's a more than equal chance that you'll find some benign condition that most people have.
MRIs for that amount of data and even the level of detail that we can get today, which is the best, but not what future technologies probably could, have to run 24/7....
(most MRIs in hospital or outpatient clinics do also, for routine procedures, considering the unit costs in the single to double digit million dollars in the first place).
Annual (or more frequent depending on your doctor's concern) physicals are a peer proven way of keeping more people from using the ER as a single source of medical contact. That's different.
-- Jay
Posted by yxibow on December 13, 2008, at 0:53:19
In reply to 'mental illness, in brain scans', posted by rjlockhart04-08 on December 12, 2008, at 23:13:40
> Loggin in....
> _________________________________________
>
> Anyways, Why are doctors so "rampant" on Seroquel? is it the drug companies that are paying them extra for a "reward" when really it's not for the patient and causes depression, and slowing of mental thinking.Hmm... I mean I think you're entitled to your view but it sounds a little bit like a conspiracy. I mean I admit that when I was first "offered" olanzapine when it came out when I was still in college I said no to it, there was no reason for it for dysthymia -- I don't know, but then this doctor was a benzophobe -- ugh, don't really want to go back to that memory.
I mean yes, sure, its not that they are paid, well, who knows, I mean there can be doctors who have taken part in graft, but I suppose some do follow using substances off label in non-evidence based psychiatry circles just when they come out, as opposed to being a little bit more cautious and wait for some results to be seen.
That being said, Seroquel is probably, not in terms of the problems (and I am unfortunately trying to fight that) of weight gain that not just it but Risperdal and others have, the safest AP around in general opinion when used in MED (minimum effective dose) as far as other serious problems for most people, EPS, etc.
I know I have had serious results from it but I am very sensitive to certain things and they're rare, I do think it is for a patient's benefit when other agents have been tried and haven't worked, for TRD augmentation, to improve their functionality and outlook on life.
That being said, all APs have the potential of blunting, which is what you are describing and actually is a benefit for cases of agitation in schizophrenic and other related conditions, I'm assuming, if you have been prescribed it before for off label reasons.
> See, i understand, today....the use of mood stablizers has increased...Lamicatal, Geodon, Abilify (both antipsychotic's also) which... really "antipsychotics" are mood darkener's in some cases, other cases...they bring relief, so you can function. Obviously because it's a degrulation of dopamine, and serotonin, that cause "awkward behavior".
Again I'd disagree about darkeners, unless the medication is not effective for you -- APs are not always the choice for everyone, if I recall I thought you responded better to stimulants? I don't remember. It all depends on the patient.
Oh I think there's more in play than just dopamine and serotonin, and "awkward behavior" is kind of pejorative if you've gotten that sort of commentary towards you. Noradrenergic is also in the mix and then the further unstudied sigmoid and kappa and other centers regulate the brain.When it's said that "substance X functions by a possible downregulation of Y, but the exact function isn't known...." in prescribing information, that really is sort of the case, in part -- we are still in the early stages of discovering things.
That's why mapping tools are useful in patient studies for researchers but may not give what a particular consumer is looking for a pleasant view necessarily and the costs are carried by them, not by government and private grants.
As for Lamictal, it is a evidence based antidepressant in its own right, although not for everyone either and must be carefully used because of its potential but rare effects.
And certainly in bipolar disorders, Depakote and Lithium have been time tested. Trileptal is probably a better agent than Tegretol, etc. I think the fact that a number of AEDs have other uses adds to the chances that patients can live more functional and productive lives, as I noted before, with TRD a problem for a smaller but definitely serious for a number of patients
> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/18/health/psychology/18imag.html?pagewanted=2
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on December 13, 2008, at 15:51:51
In reply to Re: 'mental illness, in brain scans' » rjlockhart04-08, posted by yxibow on December 13, 2008, at 0:53:19
Back: Loggin in
_____________________________________________Well...knowing myself over the years, i just know, that stimulants do have a benefit effect, not caffiene, mostly the main stream medications for ADHD: dextroamphetamine. Stimulants do help, with just overall looking at life, it's actually more an "antidepressant" and "susutained attention, and motivation, to what ever you are intrested in doing".
See...Seroquel was given to me for sleep, my doctor wrote a scipt for 200mg at night....eee huu, that made so "warped out" the next day, i was very off. 100mg at night, sometimes is taken, but Seroquel, my doctor insists, taking it for anxiety, and i have told him...in depth what the effect is, it causes mental "slowing", there are some benefits, reduced "negative" feelings. But...i talked with him, Seroquel lasts 12 hours. And i dont want to feel, that way all the time. There is medication, which i asked....Compazine which has a very short half life (4-6hours) and is used for nausea and dizziness. He doenst agree on that, because he said there more risk's with it, because of lowering white blood cell count.
I dont argue, i just say "i agree".
You see, during alot of periods of time, i go from emotions, "deep" that are so rooted down, it kills me. I wrote a post, that i regret because it showed just "horror" that i feel, and the sadness that i am the way...i am. (There was clip, showed...which (was a movie) but if you look at it, if someone you see in agony, and you can't do anything, it's painful. But, that was an example of just what i felt of my "mind, idenity, and who i am "really" with out any masks, or persona's" Seeing an old idenity, that is there. You have to destroy it. Too make the pain go away, and then "new perona's" created, took over.
[let me not get so detailed]....SORRY;)
But reading your post about.....a more insightful view, of treatment, it's not all, just treatment. I've learned, the mind has to be aware it's in pain, and it can stragize to re-do, and have "inner compassion" because, no one has ever cared, just abused, and....when that happens, idenities that are there maybe for a "support" system. To help the original ego, it "created artifical ego's"There alot of deep stuff that happened, it's unbearable, "1000" knives inside, stabbing you, immidiatly the mind creates, something to help instead of letting itself die.
__________________________________________
But... back to the main subject, Xanax is the "pain reliever" of all emotional, and psychical reactions from panic, either from stimuli from outside or inside. That's the best medication that works currently. Stimulants, used with a tranqilizer, creates a synthergy of focus, but reduces the "irriblity" of dexamphetamine. My doctor, went ahead, take 3 spansules, with 1mg of Alprazolam. And he is a "benzo-hater" but, i described in the last session very directly, all things, that my therist doenst even listen, or understand. He.....just sat and looked, and gave me his opinion on results of trama, but i was never abused at ALL. It's a result of losing focus, and constant negetive feeling of self, to the point where, it too deep to describe..
And your right now, i'm fine....feel nothing negative, it's usally "hit's" of a memory, that pop up, and i react, alter personality may come out, and function just like "me", and throw me aside because i'll have a public breakdown, so that is somewhat of good way of handling it. I'm just me right now, there's no stress, only if a thought that comes and "hurts", i have to be away, to get out of it.
Thanks, and if i didnt address something you where implying, just respond back, i admit, i kinda "get off subject" and get annoying. It's just me....:)
Thanks for the response.
rj
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on December 13, 2008, at 15:56:07
In reply to Re: 'mental illness, in brain scans' » rjlockhart04-08, posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2008, at 0:06:34
Yea....i just need to get a full "body scan" Vital organs, and the the limbic system, because i want to know where the damage or alterion is"
And think of some way of "self-awareness, and stop any bad habits that may cause it.
I just thought, the Amygalda is the emotion center, if it can link nuero-connections to the other parts of the brain, the brain will care for itself, but that's a "abstact" "crazy" view.
Spirtually, i know the Father will heal, it's just so hard to have a relationship with the "Creator". [that's just a belief i have, christianity, and faith]
rj
Posted by yxibow on December 14, 2008, at 5:49:00
In reply to Re: 'mental illness, in brain scans', posted by rjlockhart04-08 on December 13, 2008, at 15:51:51
200mg for sleep of Seroquel sounds rather high, that's a psychotropic dose, and at any rate, Seroquel, just like any other AP, should be eased into, starting at 50mg to prevent dyskinetic reactions, among other things.
A sleep dose is normally about 25-50mg.
Its half life is just 6 hours not 12, so would be fully eliminated in about a day. The evidence though is that for almost all situations it is used once daily, almost always at night, for its primary use.
I'm not sure where Compazine comes in, its a rather old conventional agent, a phenothiazine not used for AP use really but for extreme nausea as you noted, and unless there's some confusion between it and Clozapine which was the first atypical and definitely is monitored for agranulocytosis, Compazine isn't particularly noted for that.
It is noted for potentially strong EPS (believe me, the treatment was almost worse than the situation when I had a nasty flu in college, it caused the most intense akathisia that I wanted to smash through the walls, finally they gave me IV benadryl which wore off and I could barely tell the taxi driver to take me home)
Perhaps for yourself, I think other benzodiazepines can also help panic, such as Klonopin, besides Xanax -- which admittedly is much less subtle and has a faster uptake although does not last very long and as a shorter acting benzodiazepine can possibly cause habituation earlier over time.
Stimulants and benzodiazepines together sound more like fire and water -- its rather hard to break through a lot of stimulants with a benzodiazepine or vice versa to appreciate their purpose.But then again all of these may be your own personal experiences, we are all different.
-- Jay
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.